Debunking Islam
Part VI

Responses:
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60

Dialogue 40
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Hello jabirf - June 06, 1999
How are you VJ: I see that you have resorted to time tested tactics of baiting people and creating all types of problems.
  • Vj ~ I am fantastic my friend! What took you so long? How could there be problems when you invited to me to respond to the above? Besides it is not my fault that Islam is the cause of their fish brains.

    It IS a pity that someone who seems to be sensible resorts to the worst form of human deceit by bad mouthing and baiting all, so as to promote what he believes.

  • Vj ~ If I am sensible it means that you are even more sensible to know that, so why are you not responding to my rebuttals above.

    It is rather obvious that you DO NOT believe in whatever truth there are in the Vedas, as you resort to HATRED as your method of distributing the LOVE that you claim to represent.

  • Vj ~ If you believe there is truth and methods of love in the Vedas, then why are you a Muslim when the Vedas came long before the Q'uran.

    We really are very sorry for you as you have become your WORST enemy spewing all types of irrational concepts all over the place.

  • Vj ~ It seems you have got it all wrong my friend. I am only spewing out Muhammad's immoral conduct and if it is so irrational why aren't you refuting it? Just prove me a liar, that's all, and I will go away.

    You act as though I am your object of adoration and single me out to "see if I am smiling".

  • Vj ~ Well the response was made to you after you smilingly posted your "Hindu prophecy". I am sorry it was short lived.

    Boy, must you be "ticked" by the truth of Al-Islam and what we do here.

  • Vj ~ You must be kidding. Look at this way, when you are ticked you leave, but I am always here. It is joy to disseminate truth, my friend.

    Why don't you emulate the truthful presentation of things?

  • Vj ~ You haven't proven them false yet, so it must be the truth.

    It seems that you are now provided with enough "fodder" to goad your empty discussions with.

  • Vj ~ It is your discussions that are empty otherwise you would have made good on responding to the prophecy question which you yourself brought up.

    Why not try presenting something conclusive and instructive about the Vedas and let them STAND ON THEIR OWN MERITS.

  • Vj ~ I did! Remember my previous presentation of "five tests of true religion" even something as sensible as that, you advised everyone not to respond to. So how could an idiot, the epitome of an illiterate adulterous prophet, ever discuss anything sensible?

    This is what you have to do, as you are failing to present ANY facts about your beliefs.

  • Vj ~ It is you who have failed to present Islam as 'true religion'. My facts lie in every rebuttal of Islam and its prophet and if you need more than that, then check out my site.

    You have blown up all other beliefs, but have presented nothing to replace them. Let's see something!

  • Vj ~ Thatís the idea to blow them up! When your brains are all manure nothing good (truth) can enter it. Besides it is all constructive criticism and there is none, including you, who can refute my truths, atleast not so far.

    Dialogue 41
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    Hello Akberk, Re-Post #409 - June 08, 1999
    The Vedic teachings were initially revealed by God to the 4 rishis and passed on to humanity just as all of God's revelations were through His Prophets.
  • Vj ~ If it were so, why the others are opposed to the Vedic revelation? God is Omnipotent and Omniscient, but when there are inconsistences in his revelations it simply means He is breaching those attributes. This can never be so with God. For example:-
    The Vedas declared that many men and women were created at one time in the beginning by the means of the reproductive element which came from food (vegetation). It makes sense since there is no incest and from then on, the cause of the physical body has always been the reproductive element, a law, unchangeable.

    Other revelations claim that the same God created one man and one woman from dust, blood cloth, which definitely lead to incest and a breach to His law where changes occur where the physical body came into being by other means than the reproductive element. Now who, with any brains at all, would accept the latter and reject the former?

    Secondly, the Vedic revelation declares matter (material cause) is eternal and God created the Universe from it almost 2 billion years ago. Other revelations declared that the same God create the Universe out of nothing and gave no age for creation.

    It again declares souls to be eternal and they cannot reap eternal rewards or punishments because their actions are only finite.
    Other revelations declare that the same God created the souls and their finite actions reap eternal heaven or hell.

    These are enough reasons that qualify the Vedic revelation as the only true revelation and that the others were made up by illiterate men obviously with no brains.

    The reasons why they seem to differ are that after the Prophet dies the people gradually introduce changes into their scriptures.

  • Vj ~ Changes were indeed made which resulted in all the false religions of the world today, but it is man's fault and not that of God. The Vedic revelation is still standing firm and is for all ages, and for those who knowingly and unknowningly rejects it, can reap nothing else but pain and misery.

    God does not allow all of the Scripture to become corrupt and retains some important prophecies referring to the advent of another Prophet.

  • Vj ~ His scripture (revelation) is incorruptible. Therefore it is man who became corrupted and not His scripture. This is why Sankarcharya came 2400 years ago and 120 years ago, Swami Dayanand. They were not prophets but reformers who brought nothing new, but to guide us back on to the true path, which we have strayed from.

    This is important because once this Prophet comes he will remove the doubts that had crept in to the scripture and will provide a correct scripture.

  • Vj ~ It is obvious that these so-called prophets have created more doubts rather than removing old ones since their teachings are in contradiction to each other and specifically to the Vedic revelation.

    Yet there are many who deny this new Messenger and retain their old religion.

  • Vj ~ Islam will also be old one day like the others so then it will also be subjected to denial. How can truth be established in such an ignorant fashion? By your own argument, Islam should be abandon for the Baha'i since their messenger is the most recent.

    According to Islam, this process has been repeated with each and every nation or peoples throughout human history.

  • Vj ~ And because of Islam, it has been made worst by brainwashing Muslims with a Paradise of virgins, rivers of wine, milk and honey and other luxury and if they do not adhere to the intolerant teachings (killing non-muslims/infidels) of the Q'uran an eternal hell-fire awaits them. Such nonsense of physical bodies, virgins, wine, milk, etc. in heaven are nowhere taught in the Vedic revelation since it teaches that all things created (finite) must die or come to an end.

    As man evolved the religious teaching brought by the Messengers became more and more encompassing.

  • Vj ~ It is the law of nature that progression is downwards, and so as the Vedic religion flourished in the past universally among the majority, it cannot be the same in the end, but individually it can. The Vedic religion cannot amass such large numbers of followers as false dogmas do especially in the end, as it would breach the law.

    Islam is the summit of this spiritual evolution and the end of the chain of revelations of Law from God.

  • Vj ~ A "spiritual evolution" calling for the total annihilation of all non-muslims (infidels) is preposterous and cannot be a just act of a Merciful and Compassionate God.

    Let us discuss this aspect of vj's philosophy in detail.

  • Vj ~ I hope before you go any further, you will discuss what I have refuted here. One subject at a time is a sensible way to debate.

    Dialogue 42
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    Hello jabirf - June 08, 1999
    It is incumbent upon the Muslim to defend their belief.
  • Vj ~ It shows that your belief has no truth in it otherwise there would have been no need to defend it.

    A defense of Al-Islam increases one in Iman (Faith) and thus IT IS GOOD that I posted such a subject as neither you nor VJ has been able to refute it or even give a good explanation.

  • Vj ~ Maybe you are blind, stupid or a blantant liar who refuse to read my rebuttals. Why would I want to present better explanations when you can't take care of my last response to your Hindu Prophecy of Muhammad?

    To Shab: The object of PROOF is in your lap, now. One can talk forever and gesture forever, but sometime someone is going to call your BLUFF. I just did!

  • Vj ~ And kind of bluff is that, coming from an idiot? It is obvious you are not even close to intelligence, otherwise you would have responded to my post, so why is it necessary for her to prove anything to you? Even if she did, you being such an imbecile wouldn't be able to figure it out anyway.

    Now get busy and PROVE your Vedic beliefs as we prove OUR Islamic beliefs here. Have a good day.

  • Vj ~ So that's it, pick on her, while ignoring me. I bet you couldn't prove your Islamic beliefs the first day you became a Muslim, so give her sometime. Any way it would be a waste time, since an idiot would never admit he is an idiot. When "push come to shove" Jabir, you are going to ask your bunch of fools to ignore her as you did to me.

    P.S. Why don't you help out AkberK in the meantime? He is in jeopardy of becoming a super fool like you.

    Namaste ShaB - June 08, 1999
    To jabirf: So, Why arent you able to prove your Islamic Beliefs by answering Vjs Post # 431?

  • Vj ~ One word Shab - ignorance. He couldn't respond to his own loud mouth Hindu prophecy of Mohammad. The worst that can happen to a fool is when he opens his mouth and his shoe gets stuck in it.

    This is addressing all Muslims

  • Vj ~ And he knows very well how to address all Muslims especially when he wants to them to ignore me.
    Keep up the good work.

    Dialogue 43
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    Hello jabirf - June 09, 1999
    To ShaB: Yes, PEOPLE have died from laughing! It is a medical fact.
  • Vj ~ Only to those who eat cows.

    Where are the so-called facts that you or VJ have to present?

  • Vj ~ This would depend on how much more you want to be offended?

    Name calling is NO FACT! I have shown my position on creation as you requested, NOW YOU SHOW your rebuttal!

  • Vj ~ Why did your God reveal such valuable information, depriving millions born before 1400 years ago of it? If it was revealed before show me where and then explain to me why this Allah had to reveal it again.

    Show US some excerpts from the Vedas to PROVE that what you BOTH are saying is TRUTH.

  • Vj ~ It is a known fact that subjective knowledge must be acquired by effort of study and practice of the correct knowledge and if the Vedas have any proof, it can never be to a foolís advantage. A seeker of truth must go after truth, so here is my site. Go get it my friend.

    Soon you will wish that you would have kept your mouth SHUT.

  • Vj ~ Strange such a statement is coming from one, who has warned others not to converse with me.

    You had better present some facts to back up your or his line of reasoning.

  • Vj ~ The only facts needed to back a Muslim's line of reasoning is toilet paper and there isn't enough in all the world to clean up the filth of a religion that Mohammad has created.

    Al-Quran HAS never been refuted by ANYONE.

  • Vj ~ How do you explain fatwas against Anwar Shaik, Tasaleema and many others?

    Can you BOTH say the same of the Vedas???

  • Vj ~ Not to an idiot.

    I am going to challenge you TWO until you give us an answer here ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

  • Vj ~ You haven't answered anything yet. What about my post on Hindu prophecy? I see you chose to ignore it.

    You can't bluff your way through this one.

  • Vj ~ If I could I would surpass the greatest bluffer of all times - the illiterate Muhammad!

    I will pray to Allah (swt) to cause you both to come to your senses or leave you BOTH in error.

  • Vj ~ If your prayer can bare fruits of any kind, you and Islam would not have been in such turmoil and the chastity of a nine year-old child and adulterous prophet would not have been a subject of controversy.

    I noticed that you could NOT refute the Quranic statements that I posted, so NOW everyone KNOWS how to SHUT you two up.

  • Vj ~ It is already refuted earlier with one sentence. Why millions before Muhammad were deprived of these 'righteous' instructions of four wives and as young as nine years old?

    Hello AKBERk - June 09, 1999
    Alhamdolillah for your posts dear Jabir may Allah strengthen you.

  • Vj ~ How could Allah strengthen him when allah is not God? Any God that is a pawn (slave-servant) to an illiterate as Muhammad cannot be called God.

    I try to read the posts once a day and contribute what I can.

  • Vj ~ It is a contribution to pain and misery.

    Having read the previous posts I agree that Vj and ShaB do not wish to pursue a peaceful conversation of our differences.

  • Vj ~ Did we drop any bombs or issued a fatwa? I don't see why peace is necessary since Muslims can kill, maimed and rape to become martyrs here and 72 virgins in Paradise.

    I suggest that we continue posting responses to our Muslim brothers and sisters and ignore postings by Vj and ShaB.

  • Vj ~ If it was that easy for Muslims to ignore, they could have conquered the pain of blasphemy (contructive criticism).

    It easy enough to ignore their posts by just not reading them.

  • Vj ~ If it was that simple, why so many Muslims read Rushdieís Satanic Verses?

    Although I would like to reply to vj's post I see little purpose in it as his crudeness and tactlessness have not changed.

  • Vj ~ So you're asking me to become a coward instead? It is not that you would like to, but you can't refute truth, so you make up these silly excuses.

    These are fundamental requirements before any discussion can begin or continue have themselves been thrown to the wind by vj making further discussion impossible at this time.

  • Vj ~ The condition that brought the Qu'ran into being was also rifed with the wrath of wars among the lawless and illiterate Arabs, but yet a religion was born out of it. So if I am considered such then it seems that these conditions are best suited for Muslims to conduct their discussions.

    Should you, vj, want to continue then change your manner of address and discipline your posts by removing any mockery and contempt.

  • Vj ~ I see no mockery or false accusations and if there are, it is your duty to argue against them. On the other hand if Muhammadís immoral conduct is the contempt then he alone is responsible for the mockery.

    I will read only your next post to learn if this is what you desire.

  • Vj ~ My desire is already complete by the truth I am disseminating, it is in you and your religion lie the problem, otherwise Muslims would not have been on the defensive.

    Hello saeedhameed - June 09, 1999
    As-salamu alaykum wrt bwt. Br Jabir and Sister ShaB may Allah bless you for a good job.

  • Vj ~ Had the blessings of Allah been genuine, Muslims would not have been at war with others and among themselves.

    I find it hard to keep up with the speed of discussion here, so it is difficult for me to contribute constantly.

  • Vj ~ Very good for you, it is less sinful.

    Br Jabir, What you have said in your last posting is what I have in mind.

  • Vj ~ And it is very rare for fools think a like .

    The more you entertain someone like Vjsingh, the more he is encouraged to slander.

  • Vj ~ If there is a slander, Islam and its prophet did it to themselves, not me.

    The most you could have done was to refer him to the opinion of some sincere Non-Muslims (including Mahamat Ghandi) on Islam and Muhammad

  • Vj ~ It wouldn't matter how sincere they were, the Q'uran has already denounced them as infidels (unbelievers). How can they be credible witness in support of Islam?

    and leave him.

  • Vj ~ Seems to be a difficult task for an idiot.

    People need Islam,

  • Vj ~ I might want to rephrase it since those (Kosovo, Bosnia, Chechnya, etc.) who have got it now, are in flight from persecution because of it.

    Islam does not need people.

  • Vj ~ They certainly need infidels (non-Muslims) how else is Jihad or Fatwa possible. I wonder why they invaded all of Asia and Europe, enforcing Islam by the sword.

    Dialogue 44 - Isnt this fun???
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    ShaB - Monday, 31-May-1999 01:16:02 153.37.134.167 writes:
    You know the funny thing in Islam, they got me to believe that whatever people say bad about Islam is a bunch of lies because they wanted to ruin it, they are our enemies.

    Even when I interacted with Vj the first time, I thought he was some psycho out to get Islam also, so I said whatever I had to say to defend Islam and then stayed away.

    But you know hanging out at the Islam Board was useless for me at the same time going through ordeals with muslims in my community, they couldnt agree amongst themselves Quran, hadiths, Bible, What a stress!

    I became interested in what Vj had to say when Muslims started attacking him.

    Right now Muslims think hell can't wait for him, but I thought, if he believes in One God and lives a Righteous and Pious Life, what would make him different than us?

    Whatever he's been saying so far he has not been proven of lying, so who's the liar?

    Hello allen Re: Sure is .... - Monday, 31-May-1999 09:22:53 24.64.146.47 writes:
    Anyhow ...... I am glad that I am the "nice guy" in here and not the one insulting . That is what Islam teaches me after all

  • Vj ~ Then why does the Q'uran refers to non-Muslims as infidels. I call you an idiot because you lack true knowledge and your Q'uran calls me an infidel because of my wisdom. Can you make sense of this?

    I am not interested in defending Islam for Islam does not need to be defended

  • Vj ~ Then why it calls for "fatwas" and "Jihad" for those that oppose it.

    You say that muslims are attacking Vijai ..... I haven't seen one doing that yet

  • Vj ~ You have probably not even noticed that Muhammad himself attacked innocent Jews and Muslims from then on innocent nations.

    Look at Vijai's efforts .... he presents verse from Qur'an or a hadeeth without trying to understand it

  • Vj ~ If you think that is bad, wait till you find out, like ShaB, that even Allah and Mohammad did not understand their own Q'uran.
    "Koranic teaching still insists that the sun moves around the earth. How can we advance when they teach things like that?"
    Taslima Nasrin, 'Time' magazine, Jan 31, 1994
    Is there anything that he can use as an evidence ? I did not find that yet
  • Vj ~ It means, unlike ShaB, you are not looking for evidence, atleast not yet.

    At the end he CLEARLY lies with that implication that men will conduct sodomist acts in heaven

  • Vj ~ If it is a lie, why are they allowed 28 boys for their pleasure. Where on this planet a man has the pleasure of 28 young boys and it is perfectly legal.

    See , even if I was not convinced muslim right now , and if I were still searching for the "Way" , Vijai would not be the one I'd take seriously . Let's put it this way Vijai would not be the one I'd take seriously.

  • Vj ~ Why would I expect that, when you are not taking yourself seriously. ShaB had to be first serious of her own life and only then she could have seen what is truly serious in what others have presented.

    Brother Mohamed presented an evidence that Aisha was not 9 years old at the time of her marriage with Muhammed (pbuh) but now , TWO YEARS later , he is still using it . These examples of his that I explained will be used by him over and over again [despite it's explained] , but it's OK .

  • Vj ~ I also presented a quote from one of your Hadiths where "she was betrothed at six and married at 9" but like every Muslims he discredited it as a false Hadith. But it is not the question any ordinary manís practice of polygamy or pedophelia but specifically that of a man who calls himself a messenger of God. If you truly knew who is God you would know that his choice of a messenger can never be an illiterate man. There is no educational system in this world that would hire an illiterate to further the cause of education, so why would the wisest of all beings (God) do so?

    You are a searcher . You come in here and see Vijai and me . He calls me names , insults Muhammed (pbuh)

  • Vj ~ She too was subjected to the same, but, unlike you, she is courageous and very serious when it comes to her life and no insults could have stand in her path to seek the truth.

    Take care ShaB .

  • Vj ~ Sound like a drowning man saying goodbye

    Hello Allen - Re: Sure is .... Monday, 31-May-1999 10:45:46 153.37.136.254 writes: - Consider your marriage ShaB, ask yourself if it is your relationship with your husband.... who caused your disbelief.
    ShaB ~ Typical statement from one who follows a Moron.. Where as before I was told by Muslims to ask myself if it was my husband who caused my Belief It is the conduct of your Prophet that caused my disbelief Should be good enough reason Id rather strive for perfection before the eyes of God and face the punishment of sins instead of trying to escape them by constantly asking for forgiveness.. Also, Iím familiar with those Quotes of the Quran I chose to find a cure from that Mental Condition

    Dialogue 45 - The Imperfect Quran
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    Ex-Muslim-ShaB - Monday, 31-May-1999 00:00:08 153.37.134.234 writes:
    Islam claims the Perfect Allah has Given Mohammad the Perfect Quran and Perfect Religion. If there is one verse or word of imperfection in that book it should not be ignored because it would not be from the Almighty God. Makes the Quran false and the whole Religion contaminated that justify its perfection.

    Roger, you can see it for yourself with all the claims made here. Muslims cant, Its not their fault.
    Roger, I was in that deluded mental state before from being Brainwashed and wasnít able to reason but Thank God Ive come out of the trance.

    I practiced Islam for 2 years when youíre in Islam it is the teaching that who ever do not follow Mohammad are casted into hell-fire for eternity so it makes it hard to leave Islam for most people.

    Its the fear Islam puts in you, Maybe not at first you think Wow! what a Great Religion, Look how many people have converted there so happy, I was influenced this way, but going further into it I came to know it was just a show (phonies), and have more problems. Ive been with my husband he is Arabic-Muslim for 6 years and live in a Muslim Community so Im in there I know what its about. Peace

    Hi Roger and Allen - Sunday, 30-May-1999 22:41:23 208.252.20.129 writes:
    Allen- Its not specified what will women receive as reward for their belief and faith
    ShaB - Roger , And to think the perfect Allah was incapable of being specific for womens rewards but was able to be specific for mens rewards. Allen! Convince me! Can you do better than that? Oh Allen! I have gone astray, help me back on the true path

    Emergency Warning: Allen, Your Allah has turned my heart and eyes away from guidance as I refuse to believe , therefore I am left to wander blindly.

    Allen, You told me not to give up Im not giving up. It is you who has given up to submission to a false God.?

    Dialogue 46
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    ShaB - Saturday, 29-May-1999 17:04:20 153.37.136.110 writes:
    ShaB....any idea why is Vijai erasing the posts he can't refute ??
    ShaB ~ I believe Vj can refute this, be patient, Allen the picture is not crystal clear, How long have you been a Muslim? It takes one to study all the Religions of the world with reasoning to be able to make a conclusion of what is truth, not by just reasoning in Islam, No doubt Mohammad had already known only One God was to be worshipped, as there were many who knew there was one God, and there were many who were worshipping Idols where they Housed the Gods around the Kabah and Mohammad was furious about this being it was the house his relatives built for God.

    Whatever he claimed to be revelation by Angel Gabriel, was just a reason to make it credible. From the way I see it Mohammad got alot of info from the Jews and Christians, and to make it believable one has to perform some kind of miracle, where as Mohammadís is the Quran, just like now thereís Rashad Khalifa who proved the Mathematical Miracle of the Quran and claimed he was the Messenger of the Covenant, he managed to gain followers, but to me his claim is just as false as Mohammads because this foolishness is going to continue to grow or even Baha'ullah.

    To me God is loving for all who wish to seek him, one can believe , worship one God and work Righteousness without having to follow a certain Prophet where one does not approve of, If It really was required to follow a certain Prophets teaching, I would vote for Vj since his teachings are more tolerable, and by the Quran quotes of Messenger of Allah, there could be many messengers preaching his word with out having to be directed only to Mohammad where in his time it was to be accepted. Allen if your happy with Islam no one is stopping you.. Good Luck

    ShaB Ex-Muslim - Re: Islam is the true religion!!! Thursday, 27-May-1999 03:08:27 153.37.134.47 writes:
    Salam Ben, Tell me Why is Islam the True Religion? As you see I label myself as Ex-Musim because I have gone astray from the path of Islam. What do you believe in regards of the Vedas or the Hindu Scriptures which Muslims claim to prophesize Mohammad?

    Ben: Because the Koran says so!
    ShaB: Cant you give a me a better answer than that, A lot of Scriptures say so, How is anyone to believe that only the Quran Is True when each Religion claim their book to be truth also..

    Dialogue 47
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    My reply To Allen - Saturday, 29-May-1999 08:13:52 24.64.146.47 writes:
    ShaB, Islam is the religion of "reason" and not of "blind faith".
  • Vj ~ Any faith that is not in harmony with science and natual laws is "blind faith". Here are two examples, in science it cannot tell the age of creation or the source of matter. Secondly, all effects are the combination of atoms in their right proportion and so must all return to matter. It is a law. Your paradise breaches this law, since it was created it cannot exist for eternity.

    It encourages you to question what we can comprehend and it encourages learning .

  • Vj ~ What an encouragement! If you cannot comprehend you don't have the answers so what good can come out of questioning?


  • Vj ~ Here is what revelation really is:-
    "Revelation is a communication of something which the person to whom the thing is revealed did not know before. For if I have done, a thing, or seen it done, it needs no Revelation to tell me, I have done or seen it done nor enable me to tell it or write. Revelation therefore cannot be applied to anything done upon earth, of which man is himself actor or witness and consequently all the historical part of the Bible which is almost the whole of it, is not within the meaning and compass of the word Revelation and therefore is not the Word of God." Thomas Paine.
    The same goes for the Q'uran with its historical references.

    If you want to receive a certificate from Stanford or Harvard with "proof" that Islam is "the Way , you are making a mistake.

  • Vj ~ The mistake is if you don't have proof. Imagine milk flows in a river in Paradise. Milk if not delicately contained in a sterilized container will spoil. How could it flow in a river? How can milk that comes from animals flow in a river? What more proof you need when I am neither a Stanford nor Harvard graduate?

    Islam is for you to comprehend and with your studies , your faith will strenghten.

  • Vj ~ How else do Jews and Christians strengthen their faith? Comprehension must bring about a faith in harmony with reasoning and not blind faith. Besides how can Islam strengthen a Muslim's faith, when they are so busy trying to kill Rushdie or Tasalima?

    See , we are mere humans and we differ . I like the green color and I am sure that someone on this messageboard doesn't like it. We differ.

  • Vj ~ The reason we differ is because of past inclinations (reincarnation) of the souls. Otherwise, what other reason does Allah have for making us different?

    We can not be herded forcefully into being muslims for there is no compulsion in religion.

  • Vj ~ There is certainly compulsion in ignorance through Islam, otherwise you would have seen the truth as she does.

    The reason is that people look at the things differently .... people have different perspectives and therefore proof for me may have no value for you .

  • Vj ~ A faith in hamony with reasoning, science and in conformity with natural laws is value for all in all ages, irrespective of race, class and creed, if they must find the truth, only the Vedic religion holds these truths.

    This book by Maurice Bucaille came close to be what you ask for . You can check it out now with a click of the mouse. Don't give up ShaB.

  • Vj ~ She gave up because she didn't want to share her husband with three other women, do you think she is being unfair to her husband and Islam?

    ShaB - Question for Allen - Saturday, 29-May-1999 10:37:53 153.37.134.71 writes:
    Salam, Why do Muslims hold the Hadiths so close to their hearts where as if one wishes to disregard the hadiths as part of the teaching they are not considered Muslims so therefore would be disbelievers and casted to hell. Please explain to me these hadiths and Why one should accept them, whether it be true or not it is claimed to be Authentic. Vol.7, Book 62, #6: Narrated Anas: the Prophet used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives. Vol.7, Book 62, #31-33 Narrated Abjullah bin Umar: Allahs Apostle said, "Evil Omen is the women, the house, and the horse. Narrated Abjulla Ibn Umar: Evil omen was mentioned before the Prophet said, "If there is evil omen in anything, it is in the house, the woman and the horse". Narrated Sahl bin Sad: Allahs Apostle said, "If all there is bad omen, it is the house, the woman and the horse" Thanks Salam

    Also, Please explain to me how in many places in the Quran says none will intercede for us, but explanations teach Mohammad will intercede for us, How would that make it different than Christianity where as Jesus will intercede? Am I misunderstanding this? Because all I am seeing is Each Prophet having this authority, I cant see how it could be possible. Did God change his mind about Jesus and decided to give the position to Mohammad? I dont know much about Judaism but does their Prophet hold the same position. Thanks Salam

    Dialogue 48
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    Hello Vj - Saturday, 29-May-1999 11:33:16 153.37.134.150 writes:
    Namaste Vj, My friend, she is a Muslimah and I asked her for what reasons does a man have a rite to take another wife, out of all her reasons she had given there was one I like so much, she said,"If a woman is dying with an uncurable disease, then a man has a right to take another wife"

    I said, "Of course, the woman would die much faster this way from grieving over her husbands betrayal, It would be easier for the man to get her out of the way"

    she said, " What if the women cannot take care of the children it would be necessary for him to take another wife"

    I said, " There is a such person as Nurse, housekeeper, maid, that are not subjected to sleep with her husband"

    she said, "It wouldnt be fair for him to stay without sex"

    I said, "Well it wouldnt be fair for her either, and if he cant control himself there is a thing called masturbation"

    she says,"No, thats haram in Islam"

    I just dropped the subject, its not worth it, if she sees this as right let her be, I dont want to be subjected to such a teaching and If my husband were to do this to me, I would want to be dead, to deal with such teachings who would want to live.

    Also Saturday, 29-May-1999 17:42:20 24.64.146.47 writes:
    Here is another statement which all the scholars agree that Muhammad uttered against women. In part 7, p.22 of Sahih al-Bukhari, we read,

    "The prophet said: ĎI have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women."í

    The Imam al-Nawawi in his book, "Riyadh al-Salihin" (p. 110), reiterates that these words were spoken by Muhammad.

    If this was Muhammadís view of women, why then, did he possess so many wives, concubines and prisoners of war? Hypocrisy!

    I would like to know why muslims hold the hadiths so close to their hearts, where as if one chooses to disregard the hadiths as part of the teaching is like not taking the all the medicine prescribed by the doctor.

    Dialogue 49
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    Shab - June 04, 1999
    Hi Oinkus, No pig eating here (Its Haram), Calling the Prophet a lustful maniac are only words of truth. Not here to impress Muslims its only the truth. Your a Christian Huh? Your condition is worse than theirs, at least they almost got it right that (There is only One God) but their Messenger is gotta go. If the historical information on him is that he is known for humility, then if this is true Why are you not a Muslim? The only Improvements of women in Islam I see favors a Man by having 4 wives and promised virgins in Paradise, How can this be an improvement for women? Multiple wives was part of his culture he grew up in: he managed to stay with only his first rich wife Khadijah until her death. Anyway even the Arab Pagan idol worshippers had one wife. Attacking Muhammad as lustful maniac is bizarre: It is bizarre that Muslims follow him and he had so many wives, nevertheless a little girl of 9 years old. You should read the Hadiths, they're a shocker. No ones bashing here,just laying out truth for what it is. You havent met people devoted of the vedas,: It is depressing for you that you havent, Do you know anything of the Vedas? The arrogance and inability of even considering any other thought or Religion: so Why are you still a Christian? Peace

    Hello ShaB - June 05, 1999
    Namaste Vj, How ya doing?

  • Vj ~ Namaste ShaB, Fantastic! How about you?

    Great Idea! May be atleast one Muslim can give a former sister (who has lost her path) and now (I am kafir) a reasonable and convincing answer for this.

  • Vj ~ Isn't it strange how they can dish it out but can't defend? It shows that in ignorance there can never be an answer to dispute truth.

    Asking Myself Will Islam be my fate or not? Only God knows...Peace

  • Vj ~ You already know what is your fate and that cannot change.

    Dialogue 50
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    ShaB - June 01, 1999
    Hi Jabirf, Im doing great, thank you, How are You? I forgive you..I know its not your fault.. Just thought Iíd hang out here for a while if thats okay... To be honest I have taken a different road... I took interest In Vj's messageboards but I still would like to learn more of Islam to help me be rest assured the decisions I make are best... Peace

    ShaB - June 01, 1999
    Hi Perrazz, My family and I are doing great...How are you?...What happened to Arjook?...Poor Girl, I dont blame her, I got fed up too at this board..if that was her reason for leaving...shes good people...Im sure you know Im not here as a Muslim anymore...Just wondering what you can say to me to be convinced again... Peace

    ShaB - June 01, 1999 Hi Balady, Nice to Meet ya...How are you?...Ill make it short...Im married with An Arab-Muslim man, practiced Islam for 2 years...Now I have strayed from the path and joined Vjs message boards...I have been critical towards Islam only because what Ive learned to be truth...Is there Anything you can say to convince me again? & Is Path of Islam the only way to get to heaven?...Peace

    ShaB - June 02, 1999 Hi Jabirf, How ya doing? Its okay, Ill be just fine on my way to success. The sidetrack has helped a great deal so far, I could say more than Islam has..Thanks for your reply..Peace

    ShaB - June 02, 1999
    Nothing has really changed on these boards. Saeedhameed has just said/ declared that I should be killed/ hanged! Jabir has not made up his mind or does not openly want to say one way or the other. Also, I will say that Jabir is not as officious any longer. He seems to be developing a deeper spirituality and tolerance for others view points. He has gone as far as to admit that Jesus "may" be alive. I am not sure if this tolerance is a passing moment or the beginning of something permanant. Have you had any success in making vijay more tolerant?

    Dialogue 51
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    Perazzishooter - June 02, 1999
    ShaB, you said, Message 355 of 358 Hi Perrazz, How ya doing? In regards to Vj, Have Muslims been tolerant amongst each other in proving the true Islam?...Peace." SHAB
    I am doing well, by the mercy of Allah. To your question, about "Have muslims been tolerant of each other": It appears that Jaabir has developed some tolerance, but Saeedhameed has not. By the way, you scared me a little, when you said, "Remember words canít kill when you have strong imaan". I suppose, it is the same deal with Saeedhameed. Although mental abuse will not kill us, it can damage one's self esteem. Thus it is always better not to directly engage angry people for extended periods of time. I am in the process of ending my discussions with SH, since there is nothing productive in his messages. Well it was good to see you return for a little respite. What are your plans with vj? You still did not answer my question about his hostility / anger towards everyone that disagrees with him.

    ShareenB - June 03, 1999
    On the contrary Perrazz, ones damaged self esteem cause by mental abuse can lead to suicide, therefore CAN kill you if you dont have strong imaan. Regarding my plans with Vj, I have been successful to learn he is not hostile. He just lays out the truth for what it is and denounces whatís false. Anyway Ive seen Hostile/Anger in Muslims when in disagreement it doesnt prevent you from leaving this board. Why did you leave Vjs board so fast? Peace

    ShaB -June 03, 1999
    Thank you for your kind words Jabirf, but I still have unanswered questions which leaves many doubts of Al-Islam. I am curious of your post of Prophet Mohammad in Hindu Scriptures. I have seen Muslims presenting facts on Hindu Scriptures on (Vjs Dogmas Messageboard) containing Terrorism, incest, Porn, severe punishments, filled with indecencies, nevertheless idol worship of many gods. This has brought me to wonder how Prophet Mohammad could have been foretold in such scriptures when they have been dismissed as being Satanic. From your posts you have refrained from refuting these facts. Should I just ignore it as you have? or Atleast give me some reasonable explanation of how this can be so? Was or Wasnt the Vedas a Written Revelation from God? Peace

    jabirf -June 03, 1999
    As Salaamu Alaikum Sister ShaB. I do not know enough facts about Vedic beliefs to know, whether or not they are truly from Allah (swt). The obnoxious presentation by that person is their OWN sin and they are not worth refuting. They are half-truths designed to inflame and hurt Muslims. Why take the bait and sink to that level. I also do NOT consider you a kufar (disbeliever) but a victim of a slick person, so you doubt your Islam. Your being here, tells me otherwise and Allah (swt) knows best.

    ShaB - June 03, 1999
    Hi Jabirf, I didnt understand, Please Clarify..Who's obnoxious Presentation? The Muslim who presented Prophet Muhammad in Hindu Scriptures..The Muslim who presented Hindu Scriptures as Satanic containing Terrorism, Porn, Incest, Severe Punishments, Many indecencies and Idol worship of Many gods or You who has seem to forgotten presented the topic on this Board "Prophet Muhammad in Hindu Scriptures"(which your not sure are from Allah) Purposely to get Vjs (kafir) attention. Which is Your own sin and is worth to know the truth. Half truths are enough to hurt Muslims in denial for their own good, when they have submitted to a Religion claiming to be truth, but only half true. Tell me Jabirf, Why take the bait and sink to that level? I am a kafir if I am a victim of a slick person, so Whos the slick one You or Him? You fell off your wagon too by resorting to such a topic and believed in it too. Did you see the error of your ways yet? Its a blessing, take advantage of it. Just repeating you, Taste of your own poison..Are you gonna send the "Warning:Ignore" signals now? Peace

    Dialogue 52
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    ShaB -June 03, 1999
    Dont be silly Perrazz, First you thought I was a murderer, now Im suicidal...LoL...Dont be nervous, Im neither one...Thanks for your concern anyway...Did you read my posts #370 & #374 to Jabirf about Prophet Muhammad in Hindu Scriptures? which HE presented on this Board Purposely to gain Vjs Attention and now ran away from it. Are you one of those Muslims who is going to provide for me a good explanation of how this can be so. Peace

    Perazzishooter - June 03, 1999
    ShareenB, I am not familiar with the Mohammad in Hindu Scripture thread. I have not seen the Hindu Scriptures mentioned in the Quran. I know very little about the Hindu religion or their scriptures. The Quran says that every human race had been given Allah's message through some of 124,000 prophets, sent to the human race. So I suppose it is conceivable that some verses in the vedic could be true words of wisdom of some of these prophets. Where is the problem?

    ShaB - June 04, 1999
    Perrazz, The problem is that Hindu Religion has been dismissed as being Satanic, and their sacred scriptures are not mentioned in the Quran which is why you and I know very little about it and never bothered with it. To only say that every human race had been given Allahs message through some of 124,00 Prophets sent to the human race is insufficient, when the message of the Quran was direct in correcting Jews, Christians and Arab Pagan idol worshippers. All you can do is SUPPOSE that some verses in the Vedic COULD BE true, which leave me many doubts, Is the Vedas Revelation From God or not? Peace

    Dialogue 53
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    ShaB -June 04, 1999
    Hi Perrazz, Allah didnt dismiss the Hindu Scriptures as satanic as he did not mention them at all in the Quran.
    P** Even if the Vedic was true it would need the Quran to understand it
    S** So was it true or not? Since Muslims claim it has foretold Muhammad.
    P** Since the Vedic is older than the Gospel and Torah it would have guidelines that were relevant to that period of human history.
    S**So the Gospel and Torah didnít mention them either?
    P** Allah is our creator, he knew when we to learn the basic alphabet and we were ready to construct sentences on our own, he gives us guidance accordingly.
    S** And today with his guidance arenít we more constructive in distinguishing truth from falsehood?
    P** For example, just because a book may have the complete an accurate alphabet in it does not mean that is sufficient to help questions of grammar. I regard the Quran as the Grammar Book and the Bible as the Alphabet. Of course, nobody can use the grammar book properly if he does not learn the Alphabet.
    S** If this example is true and if the Vedic were true Dont you think you would need the Vedic to learn the Alphabet since it was before the Bible? Also, if this example is true Dont you think it continues as the grammar may need corrections For example: Rashad Khalifahs (Messenger of the Covenant) Mathematical Miracle of 19 and the correction of the Quran which he removed the 2 verses of the Quran for perfection, which has been added falsely in the time after Mohammadís death or even Bahullah who brought the message to unite humanity. They have managed to gain plenty of followers and are growing in number. Are they being deceived by the Shaytan as Muslims are to Christians, Christians are to Jews and all vice verse. Does it really end with the Quran? I recall Jews and Christians holding on to their scriptures as the final and Pure Word of God, What Makes muslims any different with the Quran being the final word of God? So which is correct the former or the latter? Peace

    Perazzishooter - June 06, 1999
    Sorry ShaB, but I will not go back to vj's site. He is an obnoxious fellow. I do not take lip from anyone, muslim, Hindu, Christian or atheist. There are some ground rules to all human discussions, regardless of what the topic. I do not mind talking to you because, although we disagree, you are not discourteous. I am trying to move up not down the evolutionary ladder. The angry bigoted tone of voice Vj feels he is justified in using in addressing other individuals that he has never met, speaks volumes about where I disagree with him.

    ShaB -June 06, 1999
    Hi Perrazz...
    P--Sorry shareen...
    Sh--Dont be Sorry...
    P--But I will not go back to Vjs site, hes an obnoxious fellow...
    Sh-- But youíd rather remain here when your Prophet was obnoxious to many...
    P--There are some ground rules to all human discussions, regardless of what the topic is...

    P--I dont mind talking to you because, Although we disagree, you are not discourteous...
    Sh- When did we disagree? Would you mind talking to me and believed I was discourteous if Im saying to you your Prophet is an Adulterer and Child molester...
    P--I am trying to move up not down the evolutionary ladder...
    Sh--How can you move up if you havent started from the bottom...
    P--The angry bigoted tone of voice Vj feels heís justified in using in addressing other individuals that he has never met, speaks volumes where I disagree with him...
    Sh--And Your Prophet (Adulterer, Child molester, Murderer) feels heís justified in using his claim as Prophet of God addressing individuals he never met, Also speaks volumes about where I disagree with him. Peace

    Dialogue 54
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    ShaB - June 04, 1999
    Slander is a sin Jabirf, your Allah is false as he will not forgive you. The slick presentation of Islam. The rest you will never figure out. One thing that you note is the incesssant pursuit of nothing revealed to a Prophet of Immoral Conduct. Perfect Cop out of your ignorance submitting to such a Religion out of hopelessness. So Jabirf, who was there at the start of creation, Mohammad? Isnít it the type of outright silly things that You are talking about. Since Muhammads Scriptures are from the start of creation. Quite a convenient way to make sure no one can challenge your claims (Mohammad came first, so heís it)Since You live in La La Land then you dont know that the Messages are from human errors, and your claim is false, cause your only able to show me the mistakes made by Muhammad. This Vj is able to show, so I dismiss you. Nice you are to waste my time with "Fantastimagorical" trip ('ala Disney) but I dont want to be fooled for your baloney, I would respect you more if you actually said something true. Its like your constant slap on my back. Gets boring and monotonous guickly. You said you donít know much about Vedas, nor you will ever know. You always posted here and I havent yet to see some truthful information yet to enlighten me. But you choose to bad mouth many. Thats your fault, Yes you have tried to bait Vj, you gave him an area to rationally discuss your grievances and show us some proof of your claims but havent yet to do. You seem retarded and a believer in nothing. Why then donít you present something rational and reasonble instead of what amounts to truth about Paranoid Muslims. If you believe in your false God your prayers will never be answered to remove the offending people of your land and this world. Prayer to a false god is Lacking communication. Mohammad already has suckered you into fighting with others, you donít need me or Vj. Whatever Vj feels is pity for you. When are your going to present something truthful? Your lacking truth does not make a good presentation. Would you actually like to know a little more of the Vedas the article piqued your interest and posted it hoplessly to know that you were not able to refute it. Often You have bad intentions and Vj and I have the good intentions. What ever Vj presents will not make you change your beliefs, you will never understand, as it is your destiny. You have been posting here for a long time and all you had to say was nonsense. The Vedas is from the beginning and Religion corrupted humanity, Is it obvious? Three Religions Judaism, Christianity, Islam all born from Abraham getting along so well..Whoopi..Whatever you present to Vj will be a Waste as Islam is Waste. Islam is A Curse made by Mohammad and Vj does not have any special Powers like a False Jinn to make you lose your Islam, as I said that is your destiny. No I dont understand Why your devotion to a false God and Messenger. This is not bashing as you may call it, it is the truth. So far Jabirf you have made no sense to me as well as the other muslims, even as a Muslimah you made no sense. I choose not to go back to Islam because it doesnt end with Islam to know the true essence of God. If you atleast are curious to learn about Vjs Religion come on over to the other board, just beware its crucial towards your Belief. Take Care and Good Luck...Peace

    Dialogue 55
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    ShaB - June 06, 1999
    Hi Jabirf,..
    J--Since when did you become an authority on religions an religious beliefs...
    Sh--If your Prophet (Child Molester) gave him authority, I who have never committed sins as he has, should be ahead of the game...
    J--Allah said that, to you is your belief and to us Muslims are our beliefs...
    Sh-Then who are the infidels? They are nothing but words coming from an adulterer and child molester...
    J-If you understand this then you will see that God tells us that some will never accept what others believe..
    Sh--If you could only understand that Mohammad is telling you this and you should never accept a belief by such a sinful person...
    J--If you try to convince them or ridicule them, then you will fail...
    Sh--If I will fail, then that would make you more a failure when you havenít convinced me of nothing yet...

    Sh--Yes, It describes you perfectly. Peace

    ShaB - June 06, 1999
    If the Muslims claim the Vedic foretold the coming of Muhammad, then hey it must be true if they claimed it. Ask Jabirf? He'll tell you where he found it or you can read the topic of (Prophet Muhammad in Hindu/Vedic Scriptures) he presented on this board. If you say yes to that today we are more constructive in distinguishing truth from falsehood, so read Vjs Site on World Religions and distinguish truth from falsehood. If you say thereís nothing wrong in reading another book for the Alphabet then read it on Vjís Site. The Jewish Bible said this, The Gospel said that, The Quran said otherwise, The Vedic now says Look out for Muhammad. Jesus claims heís the one, Muhammad claims heís the one. The Quran is protected by 19, who brought that into light. Dont you know already that Rashad Khalifah when he ran a test on it of the 19 code claimed heís the one, removed the two false verses added proving the controversy that Ali was right. But then that would make the existing Quran corrupted and false. Even Bahuallahs claim heís the one would fall to be true. So if each fundamental teachings of a Religion claim theirís as truth, and the other is wrong. Thereís problem. If yours a bit curious of what Iím really trying to lay on you is proven on Vjs Site. So read it if you may at your own risk and try to prove him wrong if you dare. Take care Perrazz..your good people..Peace

    dy - June 05, 1999
    MUSLIM BROTHERS AND SISTERS while I'm new to the excite boards, I found some very abusive distastful messages, even topics against Islam on these very Islamic Boards would someone tell me and others how to complain against this abuse?

    ShaB - June 05, 1999
    Hi Balady, I also found some very abusive distasteful messages in Mohammadís Quran, even topics against Jews, Christians as well as the rest of humanity. Why donít you complain to your Allah or Mohammad for this Abuse, Afraid of a Fiery Hell which in truth is imaginary just as your God...Peace

    Dialogue 56
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    Perazzishooter - June 07, 1999
    ShaB,Message 403, is a good demonstration of how SharB and Vj have different styles of discussion. ShaB, you will have to come back using another name for me to answer you. The sentence structure and choice of words in message 403 are not yours.
    Hi Perazz
    Shareen, Message 403, is a good demonstration of how ShareenB and Vj have different styles of discussions.
    ShB- Are you addressing me or the others? You never answered my previous posts, I wonder why
    ShB, you will have to come back using another name for me to answer you.
    ShB- Why? you dont like the name ShaB? Its the Arabic-Muslim Name I picked after I became a Muslimah
    The sentence structure and choice of words in message 403 are not yours
    ShB- Then whoís words are they? Allahs'

    dy - June 07, 1999
    Brothers and Sisters This man who is impersonating a woman is a very sick person, especially if not taking medication..While his case is diagnosed as "Paranoid Schisophrania", we know it is actually possession by the Sheitan..Wal'iyazhu Bellah.. We better just ignore him..

    ShaB - June 07, 1999
    Hi Balady,
    This man impersonating a woman is a very sick person, especially if not taken medication
    ShB- Its worse Balady, when you are the sick one, and I am a woman, and you definitely need medication
    While his case is diagnosed "Paranoid Schisophrania", we know is actually possession of Shaytan
    ShB- And how about the Prophets case being diagnosed as Adulterer, Child Molester, & Murderer "That Ibn Sharmoota l'numero wahad Shaytan"
    We better just ignore him
    ShB-Thats ignore her. Go Ahead ignore me, it would be your loss Peace

    ShaB - June 08, 1999
    Hi Jabirf So, Why arent you able to prove your Islamic Beliefs by answering Vjs Post # 431? This is addressing all Muslims

    Namaste ShaB - June 08, 1999
    So, Why arent you able to prove your Islamic Beliefs by answering Vjs Post # 431?

  • Vj ~ One word ShaB - ignorance. He couldn't respond to his own loud mouth Hindu prophecy of Mohammad. The worst that can happen to a fool is when he opens his mouth and his foot falls in it.

    This is addressing all Muslims

  • Vj ~ And he knows very well how to address all Muslims especially when he wants them to ignore me.
    Keep up the good work.

    Dialogue 57
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    ShaB -June 08, 1999
    Namaste Vj, I cant believe I wasted so much money on Islamic Books, Video and Audio Now its Garbage!!! I used to read to my Children books on Mohammad, How he was so kind and gentle to a Camel, Dog, Cat, Bird and even an ant.

    But he couldnt leave his hands off those innocent cows and lambs slaughtered in the name of God for his own self indulgence. And the Holiday Eid-Al-Adha is the worst to imagine of The incredible number of Lambs that are being slaughtered in the Name of God

    And when I had to explain to my daughter what the holiday is about in Regards to Abrahams Sacrifice..

    She said "Mommy, God told him to kill his Son"

    The look on her face while I was trying to explain the meaning of the Sacrifice was fear as if I was going to kill her myself.
    Peace

    ShaB - June 08, 1999
    Namaste Vj, Did anyone ever die from laughing? Peace

  • Vj ~ "Laughter is the best Medicine" Unless it was by an overdose which can occur after learning of Muhammad's sexual appetite.

    P.S.
    Akberk is in serious trouble since there were no attempt whatever to answer Post 431. As for Jarbir I will send him to a site on contradiction in the Q'uran. Not that it will make any sense to him, but maybe he can refer me to a site where the Vedas were contradicted. ShaB - June 09, 1999

    Hi Jabirf
    IN Answer to Sister ShareenB's comments about Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham).
    ShB-Yes, that Adulterer who almost killed his son.
    If you had read more, you would have learnt that Allah (God) had tested this Prophet (as) by asking him to sacrifice his beloved son, as a TEST to see whether or NOT he would obey God and to what extent (Would he be willing to kill his son, so as to prove to God that he would be obedient to Him no matter what he was asked to do by GOD).


    ShB-I did read it, and I canít believe I fell for it and Protected that Jerk.I was better off a Catholic when I never even knew about him. How could I now, after what I know, believe that a Loving God would be responsible for such a sinful Act? and you idiots (Bible and Quran) argue over which son it was: Issac or Ishmael
    From this test came the greatest blessing to Prophet Ibrahim (as) and all his progeny (descendants, sons of sons) of Prophethood, as God's reward for his faith
    ShB-I knew that already, Now I know better, it was more like a blessing from a false God having an Adulterous Affair with Hagar, Ishmael popped out and was left a bastard
    So it was a test of FAITH with a tremendous reward
    ShB- More like a psychotic person testing himself, Only a false God would reward such an act
    If you had explained this to your children and told them that Hajj (Pilgrimage) was a celebration of this "test of FAITH", then maybe they would have understood its' RELIGIOUS symbolism.
    ShB-I did, only innocence can see whats false. Thats Religious symbolism - A Man slaughtering his son for the love of a false God
    The bad explanation is your fault, as most religious people know of this test.
    ShB- Its Good I donít have to Brainwash my kids anymore like you do yours. And Yes it was my fault for believing and protecting such a sinful story. Most Religious people who know of this canít even get the story straight. No wonder thereís so much chaos in this world.

    And Jabirf I read Perrazzs Post since you said Please (The Magic word), it still does not explain anything to me. Whether she was 12,16, 17,18, 20, 26 it still came into light that she was nine. My husband was born a Muslim and knows she was nine. It doesnt matter what culture or time they lived in, following this Prophet is as crazy as he was Now Can you Please Read Vjs Site? I read Perrazzs post Dont worry, the shaytan only exists in Halloween which is a man made holiday..Get it? LoL

    Dialogue 58
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    ShaB - June 10, 1999
    Hi Fatuma
    I thought I saw ShaB's name before and she was but it sure doesn't seem like it now!
    ShB- Thats right sister I was. It sure doesnt seem that way now because you are offended when it comes to your Beloved Sex Maniac Prophet.
    And Shareen, I said I RESPECT all people but of course,I get a little angry/hurt when people mock Islam.
    ShB- Of Course, In Respect for a Child Molester, Murderer, Adulterer. No wonder you get hurt and a little angry.
    When I said I hold my anger in I didn't mean I'm going crazy trying to stop myself from hitting them,I meant I don't say anything nasty back.
    ShB-Well, thats why I said in answering Jeremy, that at sometime or another in defending Islam, you will eventually explode.
    Please don't change my words!
    ShB-I never did, you wrote them
    Peace everyone and hope to see the boards nice and clean again.Salaam!
    ShB-How could they ever be clean, when all the Filth starts with your Prophet.

    ShaB - June 06, 1999
    Hi Jabirf...
    J--The answer to your question is no...
    Sh--So then what age was she? 11...
    J-The marriage was consummated (sex) when she entered puberty...
    Sh--So what age did she enter puberty? 11...
    J--This is a well-known fact, but most Muslims dont waste their time with such low class attacks...
    Sh-- If you havent yet to prove otherwise, then Muslims have wasted their time believing in a Prophet who committed such a low class attack on a Child. Only an Idiot like you would give your little girl away to someone who claimed heís the Prophet of God. So Jabirf what age was she? I know you will go out of your way protecting that child molester. Peace

    Dialogue 59
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    ShaB - June 06, 1999
    Hi Oinkus,
    O--Well sh.b it depends on whether or not Mohammad had sex with a 9 year old...
    Sh --Would you feel better if Muslims told you that he had sex with her when she reached puberty at 11 years old...
    O--I have heard that some marriages to those so young were there only for protection of the child and not about marriage as its usually done, which includes sex...
    Sh--So if marriage is as its usually done which includes sex, then this must be out of the ordinary. How can that be protecting a child by given her away so young, Arenít the parents enough for her protection

    ShaB - June 05, 1999
    Hi Oinkus, I never said ridiculing Islam is wrong, but it is wrong to believe in such intolerant teachings of Mohammadís Quran where there are messages Presented that are against Jews, Christians and the rest of humanity. When they are given this Authority that only they will enter Paradise but as for those who donít accept Islam are subjected to Hell-fire. And I never said Prophet Mohammad was a Child Molester, but I did say he had a little girl of 9 years old. Would that make him one? Peace . Mohammads indecencies to permit this act on authority of his claims to be a Prophet of God, when he was old enough to be her grandfather when he even said woman can choose over a fuse, How was that child able to make a decision when her parents had the authority to choose for her, nevertheless a Prophet of God...
    O--Others have said the Prophet did have sex with a nine year old...
    Sh-- So does my Muslim Husband and he still protects that child molester...
    O-- Question for ShB and all muslims?...
    Sh-Whoís answer would you believe in, theirís or mine?...
    O--Did Muhammad have sex with a 9 year old?...
    Sh--They still dont know the right answer, but would you feel better to know she was 11. Please Muslims answer him, What age was she? Peace

    ShaB - June 04, 1999
    Hi Jeremy, Hi Fatuma, Fatuma If someone mocks Islam or Islamic beliefs you try to hold your anger in, and then tolerate them. There should be no anger there in the first place to hold in. That answers Jeremys question that eventually the person doing the tolerating will not be able to tolerate any longer and will explode..Peace

    Dialogue 60
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    ShaB - June 19, 1999

    Hi Oinkus, Remember me, How ya doing?The Wicca board has sparked my interests, Im a curious Cat. Im glad to see you here. Im not here for name calling. Vj is an Expert, he has done his homework on Religions, Iím still learning of the Vedic Religion. He did the same to me in the beginning but it helped me open my mind thats for sure, in realizing that one doesnt have to be trapped in a Certain Belief to know the essence of the Supreme Being. So, Hows your research going on Islam? Just Take your time and investigate everything thoroughly before accepting it as your faith, if that is your intention. Each individual has to realize for themselve whats right and wrong for them. If your choice of faith makes you happy then hey stick with it, but if its failing you then something maybe wrong with it. Ive come to know as a Catholic, Born Again Christian and then to Islam, they all had some good points and bad points , and I have to admit being in these Religons helped me grow to know more than ever. No hard feelings, but If I come back to the Islam Board, I will appear to attack, dont be offended cause Im not, just telling it how it really is. Anyway Im still reading all your posts. I love all Humanity just as Vj does. Just think of Vj as a surgeoun cutting you open with a knife to save you not as a Murderer. Do I sound like a Religious fanatic? Peace

    oinkus - June 19, 1999
    Hello ShaB. I came to the wicca boards out of interest in other religions also. Mostly I am posting on the fact that most Chriostian aren't out to burn witches/wiccans. So far I haven't found too much hostility and it's interesting. I am also interested in Islam and post there a little. VJ doesn't seem like a terrible type, but he does like name-calling. Too bad, I'm reading a book about the history of medicine and it talks quite a bit about Vedic medicine and India. However, I doubt that VJ would discuss it as he seems to like name-calling too much...oh well, at least he's not obscene. I don't have any hard feelings. I am also happy with my religion, Russian Orthodoxy. Take care

  • Vj ~ If name-calling poses an impediment to your search for truth, know that you are not ready for it yet.

    Hello Ahmed Khan - Sunday, March 18, 2001 2:21 PM Subject: Some facts for your web site Dear Sir, it has been interesting viewing your web site and its many articles about the different religions. As far as Iím concerned i donít mind if you highlight religions and their short comings, what i do mind is that the history and philosophy of noticeably two religions you mentioned are not accurate. The two Iím concerned about are Sikhism and the other being Hinduism.

  • Vj ~ There is only one true religion, and if we must seek it, then it is obvious all the others including Hinduism and Sikhism are false. This much you must understand that I too have much respect for their history as it speaks of a great country and its people, but we have had enough of that and it is time for India to regain at least some of her past glory which lies only in the pure ancient religion of the Vedas as interpreted by Maharishi Swami Dayanand Saraswati.

    Your attempt at sarcasm regarding his (Guru Nanak) knowledge is simply pathetic and makes you look like an ignoramus. He was a very learned man and knew the sacred Vedas very well.

  • Vj ~ It is quite obvious that he knew nothing of the Vedas, otherwise another religion (Sikhism) born to divide an already divided nation, would not have been invented. It is ignorance that gave birth to false dogmas and Hinduism and Sikhism are no exception. So it is the selfish Brahmans, Guru Nanak, Buddha, Sai Baba, etc., who are guilty of these misfortunes that have led to the fallen state of India.

    Also you call your self Aryan? May i ask from where you originate? As if you are from a place other than Punjab, Kashmir, Iran, or Germany, than you are nothing of the kind my friend, as these are the only proven places of Aryan racial settlement. Even recent genetic experiments in the University of Philadelphia, USA, have proved this hypothesis.

  • Vj ~ It wouldn't matter which part of the country or which part of the world I came from or whatever University did experiments, arya, means noble and is one follows the pure monotheistic religion of the Vedas.

    Whatever the case you should get you facts right before you write a so called history of certain religions.

  • Vj ~ The fact is there is only one true religion which means all the others are false, and even history , no matter how good it is, can change that.

    However, I must praise you for the work on Islam as you have clearly proven this fraudulent religion to be a falsehood. Well done! I used to be a Muslim my self but realized that it was a lie.

  • Vj ~ I denote a sense of bigotry here. It is impossible for any rational person to praise my criticism for Islam while chastising me for a few others, when they are all contradicted by the same logic and reasoning. It will be of great benefit to you to read the Light of Truth, since we are not only interested in saving one country or nation, but innocent souls all over the world, including yours, that have gone astray.

    Also I have great respect for the Vedas, they are very wise indeed, so to do many Sikhs and Hindus. Any way please open your mind and with a clean conscious think about what you write and write it properly as FALSE (write the truth only) statements will offend! Thanks, otherwise Good Site!

  • Vj ~ "Let him say what is good for another, even though it may offend." The Light of truth. It is impossible for anyone to respect the Vedas when one knows nothing of the Vedas. In the first place, the Vedas neither sanction idol-worship not promote sectarian worship which you thoroughly condone by supporting Hinduism and Sikhism.

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    "Just as color cannot be perceived by ears, nor sound by eyes; in like manner, the Eternal Supreme Spirit is not perceptible to the senses. He can only be seen by a pure soul through the purity of heart, acquisition of knowledge and the practice of yoga. Just as one cannot reap the advantages of knowledge without acquiring it, likewise the Supreme Spirit cannot be seen without the practice of yoga and gaining the highest knowledge." The Light of Truth
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