"When the time of destruction is at hand the intellect becomes perverted." Vridha Chan. 16:17.
Topic of discussion
Are religions different paths to one God?
The Baha'is believe knowledge of God's will for humanity in the modern age, was revealed just more than one hundred years ago to Baha'u'llah, who is the latest of these divine messengers.
But on the other hand, these strings of messengers only brought divisions. Abraham was not a messenger. Actually, there is no where in the Bible where he was given a revelation. Furthermore if the Ten Commandments were revealed to him, he would not have committed adultery and Moses would not have murdered.
Krishna and Buddha taught nonviolence while many other did the opposite. The religion of Buddhism is atheistic whilst the others are theists. Moses taught "an eye for an eye" and Jesus taught "turn the other cheek" which contradict each other. Muhammad taught Islam for all and death to all infidels (unbelievers).
Redemption is a fool's passport to a fool's paradise.
All theories or facts, theological or scientific, must conform with
NATURAL LAWS
Join the debates:
Can a fool, fool God?
Five Tests of true religion
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"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book." - Thomas Paine
"If there is a God, who has created heaven and earth, it will be unjust on
His part if He deprived Millions of souls born before Moses of His Divine
Knowledge." Prof. Maxmuller - "Science of Religion"
"In my soul, I can't tell you how dark it is, how painful, how terrible -- I feel like refusing God." Mother Theresa.
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Responses:
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Dialogue 1
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Hello hbpanther - June 20, 1999
Singhvi, I would first like to say that I know you live to show off your ignorance.
Vj ~ That is yet to be determined who is ignorant here, since our discussion has only now begun.
Secondly you have just shown your lack of knowledge of the scriptures in your opening statement.
Vj ~ Or perhaps, you are the one lacking the knowledge of the one true religion (Vedic).
I will address your concerns (if they are actually concerns).
Vj ~ It is obvious that it is not my concern but yours, since you are coming in defense of them.
You wrote, "these strings of messengers only brought divisions." You are completely mistaken. The cause of religion is unity.
Vj ~ How come you and I stand divided on the issue of religion then? Each Messenger brings forth a revelation conducive to the times in which they live.
Vj ~ If it were those “times”, why are they still so prevalent and still growing at this time? It is obvious that those “times” have long been gone and since these religions have outlived their time why are so many still holding on to them? It is clear also, that your religion will be become irrelevant too with the passage of time.
You Wrote, "Abraham was not a messenger. Actually, there is no where in the Bible where he was given a revelation." Once again you are mistaken. Abraham's book is no longer in existence. Moses, Jesus, Muhammed, Bab, and Baha'u'llah confirmed that Abraham was given revelation.
Vj ~ Read my lips, I said in the Bible, there is no revelation given to him. If there was one, it could not have been a righteous one, since he had no control of his adulterous conduct. One would expect that of an ordinary man, but not that of messenger chosen by an omnisicient God.
You wrote,"Furthermore if the Ten Commandments were revealed to him, he would not have committed adultery and Moses would not have murdered." Once again your ignorance shines!
Vj ~ Not as glaring as yours, since there were no revelation based on ethics and morals, before the Ten Commandments then your God alone should be held responsible for their immoral conduct.
Moses was defending a slave when the egyptian was murdered. Moses fled. Baha'u'llah later spoke to Moses in the Burning Bush. It was after the murder that Moses received revelation from Baha'u'llah.
Vj ~ So your Baha'u'llah is not an omniscient God, who knows the past, present and future, otherwise he would have seen it necessary to send the Ten commandments which could have prevented Abraham and Moses committing adultery and murder respectively, and moreso, he himself would not have had to destroy the world because of wickedness. I am quite certain your God would have known of a pure and righteous soul then to hand a revelation if need be.
You wrote, "Moses taught "an eye for an eye" and Jesus taught "turn the other cheek" which contradict each other." Once again I must throw a rope into the bottmless pit. Can you reach the rope or should I give it some more slack? That's a long rope.
Vj ~ I really think you should throw a rope, not to me, but the inefficient Bah'u'llah, who could not have set the world right with a universal religion from the very beginning.
At the time Moses taught an "eye for an eye" you must remember that the tribes of Isreal were so barbaric that the Ten Commandment had to be given to them. That's barbaric. I mean they needed some laws which by today's standards seem very Basic. That is what they needed.
Vj ~ It seems to me that they had needed it long before, because of Cain having sex with his sister ad killing his brother, Abrahma's adulterous affair with his housemaid, Lot's incest with his daughters, and He had to destroy Sodom and Gamorah because barbaric sinful actions, not forgetting that he drown the whole world except two of each creatures including Noah and his family. Had ethics and morals prevailed from the beginning this God could have saved himsself a lot of problems, but it seems to me he wasn't God at all.
When Jesus came, He knew that the people needed to learn some new laws which were conducive to the advancement of the civilization. This is why He said, "Turn the other Cheek."
Vj ~ And he also said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes unto the Father but by me." He didn't say he was the way until Baha'i faith comes along. Even if new laws were needed, then why are the Jews still holding on to the old?
Society had advanced from barbarianism.
Vj ~ Really! I see no advancement except nuclear weapons to kill more instead of spears and arrows. Besides where there are spiritual or scientific advancement in society, it simple means it is a breach to natural laws since progress (purity) is downwards and not upwards.
You wrote, "The religion of Buddhism is atheistic whilst the others are theists." Buddhism in it's original form were worshippers of God. Buddhism fell into corruption. I know some Buddhist that acknowledge a Supreme Being.
Vj ~ Since they all became corrupted, the reason for your last messenger, would it not be fair to say that it (Bahai) is also corrupted, since it is based on the same messages of the corrupted ones?
You wrote,"Muhammad taught Islam for all and death to all infidels (unbelievers)." I can't believe a person of your stature would fall for some propaganda.
Vj ~ Funny, I thought all humans had an intellect to investigate truth from falshood, but where did yours fell off is a miracle by itself. ".....And to cut off the roots of the unbelievers......I will assist you with a thousand angels, ranks on ranks..... "I will instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: Smite ye above their necks And smite all their finger-tips off them." Sura:7,9,12. "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors:..." Sura 5:54. Did you say the Q'uran didn't preach violence? How do you explain the above Suras?
Muhammed, may my life be a sacrifice unto Him, never taught that people should murder. He forbids murder.
Vj ~ Muhammad himself was guilty of slaughterng Jews, and took their wives as bounties or concubines. It is by the intolerant instructions of Q'uran that Muslims murder, rape and plunder Asia and Europe. It is only an imbecile would want to sacrifice his life for a man (pedophile) who had sex with a nine year-old girl, his daughter-in-law and committed adultery even though he had nine wives during that time.
He said that only if someone infringes on your right to worship that you can defend yourself.
Vj ~ How do you explain Islam defending its faith, when Muslims invaded an innocent and peaceful nation as India?
Today Baha'u'llah has abolished Jihad.
Vj ~ You must be a jackass having a bad dream. Where in the Islamic world is "Jihad" and "fatwa" abolished? Your Bah'u'llah is also a jackass to say that he has abolished Islam. I wonder why the Bah'u'llah cannot prevent the persecution of Baha'is in Iran?
If you have any more questions I'll be happy to entertain them.
Vj ~ You are part of a parasite dogma whose sole intent is to divide mankind further and I do not see it as entertaining.
From: "hbPanther"
To: Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002
Subject: name change
Greetings,
You are illegally using my name on your website. I don't care what name you use ,but please, don't use "hbpanther." Please choose another name.
Regards,
Vj ~ If you can establish that you are the only one on this planet who has such a name I will change it. My neighbor is hbpanther also and says he is happy his name is being used. So, to please you I will have to displease him which doesn't seem fair.
From: "hbPanther"
To: "'Vijai Singh'" singhvj@rogers.com
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002
Subject: RE: name change
Vj,
If you indeed have a friend named HBPanther, then he would not want his name used in such a negative way.
Vj ~ My neighbor is a changed man and his desire is to let his name be used
in this "negative way" that others
can learn by it, to show the world how stupid he was.
Some of my friends ask why I am on your page. I am a member of the Council for Secular Humanism, and it looks kinda strange that I would defend religion. As a courtisy, please, remove my name from your religious website.
Vj ~ Did you tell your friends it was you who was involved in this dialogue
or were they that stupid to assume it was you.
I didn't have to explain to my friends that I did win the Masters or didn't,
they were intelligent enough to know that I am not the only Vj Singh on this
planet.
Dialogue 2
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Hello samtzu - June 21, 1999
V.J.: Well, that's one way to get people to run around the mulberry bush, tripping after you.
Vj ~ They have been tripping since the Bah'u'llah proclaimed the first idiot as his messenger.
I checked out your sites. Your didacticism is impeccable. It is a relief to know, finally, that there is only One True Religion on this planet, and you are the only one who has a handle on it all.
Vj ~ So did Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, Buddha, etc. and the last idiot sent by the Bah'u'llah who all had a handle on their once ‘true’ religion.
Whew! I was afraid that out of the six billion people alive today, not one of us would know the Real Truth, or have the courage to speak up and tell the rest of the world they are not only wrong, but that they are a rather large pack of idiots.
Vj ~ Isn't that what the Bah'u'llah's last messenger is telling those 6 billion who have corrupted their religions - the need for a universal religion, the Baha’i faith?
It is good, I imagine, to have that set of cast iron cajones that you appear to have, to have them clang as you walk down the street in the light of True Revelation.
Vj ~ The same can be said of the Bah'u'llah in light of his universal religion. I wonder what idiot would foster a new faith (Baha’i), when he endorsed all the others before it?
I would follow you if I could, but it appears that it takes a considerable amount of grey matter, or at least more than I have, to work through the ins and outs of the minute details of what you are saying.
Vj ~ Perhaps it would help if you can change the color of the matter and then the amount would not be a problem. The process requires a functional intellect after rejecting all that you presently hold as a belief.
I have listened to many people who use reason to prove their Divine Truths, but your reason is inspired, and appears to be the most complex and convoluted I have ever encountered outside of my freshman philosophy class.
Vj ~ Shows how much your intellect and six billion others have become perverted due to the lacking of true philosophy and still is inspite of its presence before you.
I guess I will have to remain a simple brute and deal with the simple, animal, personal revelations, that have been given to me.
Vj ~ If that is what you call it, but where you are going you won't need any to be a brute since revelation is not given to animals and those who have rejected true religion, willingly or unwillingly, will eventually become animals.
It is too bad, even tragic, but there it is. It probably serves me right. I will probably stumble along through many more lifetimes until I can reach that advanced stage where one needs to be to actually practice the what-ever-the-hell-it-is that you insist is the One True Religion.
Vj ~ I can't even agree with "many more" since it is way beyond that, if the desire is not there to start now.
I'm sure it will be hell on me until then, but I'll manage.
Vj ~ You will probably manage, but it is those who are burden with the immense task of helping the helpless destitutes, that will bare the consequences of toiling. But since you will be whining and groaning in pain and misery, my guess is, you won't give a damn anyways.
Until that time arrives, though, I hope you don't mind if I stack your One True Religion out back with all the other One True Religions I have collected over the years.
Vj ~ Why would I mind when even God has no cure for a fool.
I have a garden growing, and I find that they make great fertilizer.
Vj ~ At least, there is some good in it after all, sustenance of life. The travesty of it all is that you will become the parasite amidst the vegetables, doom to die over and over.
Dialogue 3
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Hello samtzu - RePost #4- June 21, 1999
V.J. WOWIE ZOWIE!!!! I didn't know that the Vedic tradition encouraged personal insult to such a wonderful level.
Vj ~ Shows the failure of the Baha'i's one world religion to render perpetual happiness to its aspirants, that even mere words can be an impediment to their happiness. Accept it as a therapy for your own good.
It is heightened! Inspired! Divine? Perhaps it is the One True Religion after all. It certainly has the arrogance of a Master Religion.
Vj ~ The wisdom of it is the wise are never affected by praises or insults. This world is not for people like you because of people like me. Isn't this the only way universal peace can come as taught by your faith? Truth must be the truth, inspite of whom it may offend. This is what constitues true religion.
Wait a minute...... perhaps arrogance is not the right word, since all arrogance has insecurity as its base. Perhaps....... well, dammit, there I go again! I can't think of a word that would describe the way you answered Panther without making you out to be a schmuck.
Vj ~ Whatever word you find, it will be suitable for the Bah'u'llah also whose message ascribed all other religions as corrupted.
Like I said in the earlier post, I obviously don't have the grey matter it takes to follow you.
Vj ~ Try vegetarianism, you will definitely have a different color and perhaps have enough.
Nothing but Love....... sam
Vj ~ Love is to know the source of true knowledge inorder to free yourself and others from pain and misery.
Dialogue 4
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Hello danabugg - June 22, 1999
VJ, I am curious, why are you so angry?
Vj ~ It is not anger my friend but the dissemination of truth and nothing else but the truth. We have done nothing to you, yet you seem personally insulted at our Faith and beliefs.
Vj ~ It is not what is being done to me, but what you innocent souls are doing to yourselves. False religion leads to pain and misery and you are being misled. My mission is not leave any stone untouched but expound truth to all even if they are offended by it.
That truely puzzles me.
Vj ~ It may puzzle you but it is wisdom to me. It is time to become unpuzzled.
While you are correct that your words have no bearing on our Faith or how we believe, there is no need to be quarrlsome.
Vj ~ It might be quarrelsome to those who lack the correct knowledge, but it is sometimes the only way truth can be disseminated. If you have the courage to ignore what may seem as quarrelsome, you have indeed cross a major hurdle to the path to true knowledge.
If you wish to discuss the seeming differences in the different religions I think that all of us would be more than happy to have an intelligent, level headed, non belligerent discussion.
Vj ~ I am already in possession of such a state, I am only awaiting those who are not ready and are still balked down with the ‘quarrelsome’ nature of this discussion.
I truely hope that this discussion will evolve into something worth talking about;
Vj ~ My intent of spreading truth is obvious, since I have gone to the length of posting here and I hope the nature of my ready responses will not impede on the free functions of my opponents for fruitful discussions.
But do you honestly expect us to respond to you positively when all you seem to do is attack?
Vj ~ How do you hope to survive muchless win if your not ready to defend? If there is an attack, it is on what is false, why would you want to defend it in the first place?
if not, then VJ, you may find that you are only talking to yourself.
Vj ~ And little fruit will that bear you, my friend. As a matter of fact, the wise are always speaking to themselves, though it might seem they are speaking to others, since only the wise can make sense of what all are saying.
P.S.
Vj ~ "Singhvi, I would first like to say that I know you live to show off your ignorance" this statement was not made by me and yet there was no complaint from me. It has no effect on me when it comes to ascertaining truth. But too bad for those who can dish it out and when it comes to their turn, they complain like kids.
Dialogue 5
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Hello takuskan1 - June 22, 1999
Tried to read the message of one truth.
Vj ~ Seems to me you were trying to read it while having sex, the same way Muhammad got his revelation, or perhaps you fell in an epileptic fit like him.
Had enough for now.
Vj ~ I know it is not easy to come to grip with oneself knowing that one were a fool all one’s life.
Think I'll take my bucket of mud where it might do some good, like back to the garden.
Vj ~ If you came up with something like mud in the process you might want to take a closer look, your sensation of smell might be in jeopardy and while you are at it, it won't hurt to check your underwear also. Hello danabugg - June 23, 1999
One comment about hbpanther's response. I personally don't think that what he said was an appropriate response to you.
Vj ~ I consider it all appropiate. Truth cannot be ascertained by what you do not want to hear. And perhaps it layed the foundation for some of the comments you have posted.
Vj ~ It would have perhaps work out that way later anyway, knowing that many are brainwashed and do not entertain critical thinking. However, there is no need for some of the further comments you have posted.
Vj ~ I saw the need since I am the soul-saver here and I will use whatever is appropiate to put forward my arguments as long as it pertains to truth, even though it offends.
If you wish to profess your One True Religion, nobody is going to stop you, or even try. That's your perrogitive.
Vj ~ Not for a moment has it entered my mind that any one can stop me from disseminating the one true religion.
However, if you understand anything about human nature, at all, you will realize that it is easier to attract people with a calm, non derrogatory manner, than with a fitfull, insultive manner.
Vj ~ Such “attraction” in human nature has led them to false religion in the first place, so I can see how the same can bring them out of it.
Dialogue 6
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Hello danabugg - June 24, 1999
I just took a look at your site. One constructive critisisim here; see if you can make it so that the reader doesn't have to keep scrolling right to read. It's buggers on the eyes!!
Vj ~ It is only a small price to pay for acquiring true knowledge.
Now on to my thoughts on your religion.
Vj ~ It shouldn't be much of a thought since you only looked at it.
It seems to me that the founder of your religion does nothing but criticize other beliefs.
Vj ~ It seems to me that you did not read his message since he declared that he is not a messiah or a pontiff of any new religion but only bringing back to his people what they had lost. The criticism are very constructive ones and it is the only way truth can be ascertained when untruth is exposed.
Whereas the Bahá'i Faith upholds and points out the unity of religion.
Vj ~ And where is the unity when millions won't relinquish their old religions? The Baha'i faith is another religion and stands alone in that respect along with the others - just one more division.
Yours only agrandizese itself as being so superior, whereas the Bahá'i Faith glorifies God, and nothing else.
Vj ~ It is not wrong to glorify God, but it is terribly wrong and obnoxious to glorify a false God. God is determined by His Characteristics, attributes and Nature and He governs in conformity with the immutable laws of nature. Any religion that breaches these attributes and laws are false and this is why the Vedic religion declares that it is true religion and superior to all.
I am curious, have you read, independently, any Bahá'i material on your own. Just books written by Bahá'u'lláh himself, not critiques from the point of view of your religion? If not, I would suggest taking a look around the web or in your local library before making any more critiques. You might learn something that your religion forgot to mention.
Vj ~ Aren't you curious also that you haven't read about the Vedic religion extensively to argue yours to be right?
Just a thought,
Vj ~ If the Baha'i faith stresses on unity based on its last messenger, then by now your religion is false, because the most recent of God's messengers are Sai Baba and Maitreya. Therefore if all should abandon their faith to become a Baha'i then you should see it fitting also to abandon your faith to seek Maitreya or Sai Baba and encourage others to do so.
Just another thought, but rather a rational one!!
Dialogue 7
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Hello samtzu - June 24, 1999
Vijai: I don't think there is anything "wrong" with their faith.
Vj ~ If you are not sure, why then dipute one who is?
As far as faiths go, it's as good as any other, including yours and mine.
Vj ~ This is not a statement made by an intelligent person since you know nothing of mine. There is obviously a vast difference between (blind) faiths and a faith that is in harmony with reasoning and science.
As you know, or should know, we do not posess Truth, but we can be posessed by it.
Vj ~ Again how can you speak for all when you don't know how truth is defined and its source? I did not denounce their faith when it was presented to me, I just politely smiled, thanked them, and the plate was passed elsewhere.
Vj ~ Obviously it was not good enough for you otherwise you would not have rejected it. At the same time, to make matters worst, you don’t even know why you are holding on to the one you have?
You don't eat meat, I don't consume religion.
Vj ~ Then how could you conclude that they all hold the same truth when you are empty of religion?
As far as becoming like you....... I am. One man has brown eyes, another man has blue. Which one is really a man?
Vj ~ It is not man's eyes that make them the same to bring harmony, it is true knowledge. You lack it and can't be like me until you seek it.
Knowledge is not aquired, except by the weak.
Vj ~ Great speech, then I can conclude that you are weak.
To the strong it is allowed to blossom, as a plant from the soil.
Vj ~ True, but if you are ignorant of the source of wisdom, the seed, how can you make it grow?
I have aquired nothing, and I hope to lose everything.
Vj ~ Then there is nothing to loose since you have acquired nothing.
What remains, again, I am. sam
Vj ~ Typical of a living- dead. Living just for the sake of living.
Dialogue 8
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Hello barefootgal2 - June 25, 1999
"Although a wayfarer upon the path of the Absolute Truth might reach a particular station, without detachment he would not be able to perceive that station or any other plane ..
Vj ~ It is obvious then that neither you nor him is “upon the path of the Absolute Truth.”
This is from the grace of God; He bestoweth it upon whoso He willeth.
Vj ~ He "Bestoweth" it upon those who sowed it by actions virtuous or sinful. It would be an injustice to punish or reward anyone because He "willeth" it.
By detachment is not meant giving away and depleting all one's wealth. Rather, it denotes turning unto God and supplicating Him.
Vj ~ This is in contradiction to one of his messengers where he said, "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man entering into the kingdom of heaven."
This plane can be attained in every precinct and is manifest and visible from every thing.
Vj ~ Your “plane” has ran out of fuel, it shows that you are ignorant and you do not know what it means.
He is detachment, and is the alpha and the omega thereof. Therefore, we beseech God to make us detached from anyone save Him and to grace us with the attainment of His presence.
Vj ~ More like the attainment of His bliss, since He has no physical form to make himself present. Verily, there is no God but He. Command and creation belong to Him. He maketh beloved whatever He wisheth to whomever He desireth, and verily He is Powerful over all things."
Vj ~ Again this cannot be God since his judgement are based on what he "wisheth and he desireth" and not the by what a man sows that shall he reap.
(Commentary on "He who knoweth his self hath known his Lord."
Vj ~ This commentary is from an idiot who knows nothing of the attributes, nature and characteristics of God.
Samtzu chooses friendship.
Vj ~ What value is “friendship” when both of you are going to 'hell' (pain and misery)?
You choose enmity.
Vj ~ I choose to bring you the truth even though it may offend you. I am trying to save you from the pain and misery of 'hell'. This is what friendship (mercy) is all about.
The matter is with God.
Vj ~ Of course all matters are with God, how else can He justify sending you and Samzu to 'hell' and me to 'heaven' ? God is just, and like a judge, He can only sentence you to the penalty that fits your sinful actions. In other word, the seed of the “matter” is sown by you and you alone.
Sai Baba and Maitreya also walk under one sky.
Vj ~ And why aren't you walking under their sky since they claimed to be the most recent of all messengers?
Dialogue 9
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Hello danabugg - June 25, 1999
VJ, you are right, I haven't picked up a book on your religion.
Vj ~ Then perhaps I could be right of everything else. Aren't you a least bit curious?
But then again, I really don't understand what your religion is anyway.
Vj ~ Billions don't understand the Baha'i faith either, and the reason is because they are as ignorant as you are, they don't want to understand any other faith but their own.
If you would be so kind as to put a name to it, I might consider reading about it.
Vj ~ My home page tells it all and if you were interested you would have gone there already, instead of being busy making a fool of yourself right now. If it is not on my home page, then naturally one would have to follow the paths indicated by it.
However, I noticed that you avoided my question very nicely.
Vj ~ Either that, or you are a fool with no uderstanding of my religion.
I take it to mean that you haven't read any books written by Bahá'u'lláh. So be it.
Vj ~ It only takes one straw in the wind to tell its direction. One contradiction is enough for the wise to know what is trash. So why would I want to delve more in it?
I think the main difference between you and the others on this board is that we strive to discuss our differences in an air and manner that is beseeming, and becoming to God;
Vj ~ Very good, but the main difference is still about who worship the one true God and if you cannot refute the Vedic faith, I would say that you and your religion are the ones in serious trouble here.
whereas you merely wish to force feed us your version of the truth.
Vj ~ Was it the same way you graduated from college? Were you forced fed of version of something since you didn't know anything about it before? My version of truth can be decided by a rational dialogue which you are yet to get engaged in.
Don't expect anymore responses from me in this topic.
Vj ~ I get this statement from cowards everyday who don't have the guts or courage to seek the truth.
If you wish to discuss anything in a manner of cordial discussion, you know where to find me.
Vj ~ Wise men never look for fools and those who desire truth will find the teacher (wise). Hello samtzu - June 25, 1999
Enjoy, Vijai........
Vj ~ I know, too bad you are not.
I'm outa' here.
Vj ~ A coward dies a thousand times before death and still continue to die after death. Too bad you are running from what can eventually save you from running.
Dialogue 10 - Vedic conception of truth
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Hello Dr. Nala - February 4, 1999
Vj- If your interest does not click on the simple answers how are you to understand the major ones.
First: That's not an answer, it's a simple personal insult.
Vj ~ A fool always sees insult even in wisdom what good then can come out of the answer?
Second: It doesn't even address the point.
Vj ~ What sense would that make to an idiot?
Third: If you have a logical inference to support the existence of a singular true religion, present it. Let's see from experience whether or not I can
"understand" it.
Vj ~ And what have you truly understood so far, that I have only insulted you and all others, fitting of fools indeed.
I don't require religion to BE derivable by logic. But, according to all you say on this forum and on your site, YOU do. So go ahead: PROVE the singular truth of Vedic religion. An example of such an unprovable principle is "There exists one true religion."
Vj ~ FIVE TRUTHS OF TRUE RELIGION
- It must exist in its entirety from the beginning of creation for all of mankind.
- It must conform with natural laws.
- It must be in harmony with reasoning.
- It must be in harmony with science.
- Its truth must be confirmed by four evidences:-
- Direct Cognition
- Inferences
- Testimony
- History
That's not a PROOF, Vijai. It's a simple list of dogmatic assertions.
Vj ~ This statement defines an imbecile, who knows nothing of God and the Laws that governs the universe. The four evidences I have given is presently used in our judicial system how can it be assertions if it was not genuine. Further more, what do you know of His attribute of Justice for all and natural laws? It is rather foolish to make the claim of assertions when you are lacking in knowledge.
Have you ever studied mathematics? Do you understand the meaning of the word "proof". Once again, I do not insist that religion derive from logic or be provable. YOU do. So one more time
I challenge you: present your proofs.
Vj ~ I know this much the source is the Vedas, and mathematics does not prove the existence of a God, unless you have a mathematical formula in your pocket somewhere. It is a fool who seeks proof rather than making his own effort to investigate. The Vedic religion is not like the others where God must perform a miracle as proof to convince an idiot of His existence. If that is all that is required then what would be the purpose of attaining knowledge?
What?! There are many scriptural texts such as the Gilgamesh Legends of Mesopotamia
: which are older than 1500 BC, even if your dates about the Vedas are correct.
Vj ~ If it is, it is only the findings of Western idiots like yourself. The Vedic revelation is eternal and occurs in the beginning of every creation, which means that it is old as creation itself.
: No, Vijai. An "assertion" is a statement of fact. Look in a dictionary. Your sentence is
: an assertion because it states a fact, this is the definition.
Vj ~ So why don't you accept the definition of "eternal" the same way as a fact, which breeches the eternity of false religions? That which has neither beginning nor end cannot apply to your hell and heaven since they too were created like the earth - all with a beginning. It simply means that which is not eternal must perish, it is also a law, unchangeable.
It is "unprovable" because
: there can be no PROOF of it. All you can do is restate it over and over,
Vj ~ It is by pondering the same subject over and over that wise men gained their wisdom. A fool only wants to hear it once and this is why he remains ignorant and in such a state how can a fool figure out a proof to be authentic?
: without personal insults, in an attempt to make people eventually stop arguing with you and go away. I'm sure that eventually they do exactly that.
Vj ~ Again the joy of the wise is his wisdom, not in a fool who comes or goes. The agony of insults are but a grain of sand in the desert in comparison to the pain and misery to come for the fool.
One more personal insult (I am not ignorant by the way.)
Vj ~ Again I ask you, how would you know that you are not?
It is true that I know little of the Vedic religion. But I know a great deal about science and logic
Vj ~ Science and logic is the Vedic theology (the source) which shows how little you know.
and I know when an assertion has not been proved. And you've proven none of yours.
Vj ~ No one proved it to me either, I seek the evidences by the correct knowledge and it will have to be the same for everyone else, except for a fool where there is no cure. Had I, like you, demanded proofs before making an effort, I would have been equal in ignorance with you.
The best current evidence of paleoanthropology is that 3.8 million years ago, human ancestors were austrolopithecines; essentially large-brained simians who walked upright. Around 100,000 years ago, the human family was represented by homo erectus. Somewhere around 50,000 years ago the first archaic modern humans evolved. By about 30,000 or so years ago, our ancestors are indistinguishable from us. These are the results of science, Vijai, which one of your "5 Truths of True Religion" require your Faith to be in conformance with.
Vj ~ Natural laws which call for repeated occurrences, if man evolved from lower species, then it must be a law which should never ceased but for thousands of years there has been no such occurrences. Why? You are a brainless idiot and know nothing of natural laws and the reason you continue to argue blindly.
Or, are you allowed by your Faith to pick and choose the science it is in conformity with, dismissing the results that don't appeal to you as "Western" and therefore false?
Vj ~ The wise are in harmony with each other when it comes to truth, it is not so in the world of science where scientists are in dispute with each other. Moreso, what science claimed earlier as truth, has been abandoned with new discoveries, and it is quite obvious, that what is known now would meet the same faith in the future. If the truth of man lies in your science, then what good is it to those in the past when it yet to be discovered in the future?
Dialogue 11
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Hello Dr. Nala - February 05, 1999
Vj- Since the layman understands nothing of science don't you think scientifice theories would be assertions to them also?
Yes. I see your point. But there is a major difference. When a scientist is challenged to prove his assertions, he can present the results of experiment and logic to make his case.
Vj ~ So can a
Rishi when challenged to prove his assertions, but should it be the scientist or Rishi’s fault that an idiot fails to understand the experiment or logic?
He doesn't have to resort to personal insult or mere repetition of his assertions.
Vj ~ How could he when he is also a fool like you? The wise do not have to prove anything, they only show us the way. The same with God, who gave us one revelation in the beginning and does not have to prove His existence by miracles, mediators and further revelations. Why must God prove Himself to a fool?
I reason according to the principles of the very science which you allegedly support: deduction from axioms, and induction from experience.
Vj ~ I support it only when it is in harmony with true religion. If scientists see it the same way there would be no imprecision in their conclusions.
So why don't you just accept this REAL Truth and stop insulting everyone else's intelligence by insisting that their religions are illogical?
Vj ~ It is not me that insults everyone it is the truth of the Vedas and frankly speaking not even God can cure a fool.
So God, in His Justice, revealed the eternal Truth in order to insult everyone but Sikhs.
: Hmm. Interesting conception of Justice.
Vj ~ Only fools can be insulted including Sikhs. This simply prove your ignorance; by what notion are you classifying me as a Sikh? Had you done some research into my site, as I expected a man of science wouldn't do, you would have found that I have also criticized Sikhism.
Vj- Where have I brought false accusations against anyone?
You have brought the false accusation that everyone else's religion is false, except
for yours, which is true.
Vj ~ How else can true religion be true if the others are not false? How can you begin to define the sweetness of sugar if you have never tasted salt?
More personally, you have called people who are not of your Faith "ignorant", "fools", "unable to reason", and the like.
Vj ~ And whom do you see as more qualified to do so? Even though you do not recognized yourself as one, you have to admit that there are fools out there and it is only the wise knows them best.
Later in this letter, you refer to both Baha'u'llah and Jesus as "idiots". These are utterly false acusations because if there is one thing which Baha'u'llah and Jesus weren't, it's
idiots.
Vj ~ Anyone who misleads the innocent by contradicting the Attributes of God and natural laws is an idiot. I see nothing false so far. Vj- So is it reasonable and just to say that the truths science is going to give us in the :future were denied to our ancestors because God did not see it fitting to provide such truths for them in the past? Is this what you attribute to be the Justice of a Compassionate and Merciful God?
It is up to human civiliization to provide the truths of science.
Vj ~ How can they if they are being misled for ages by false dogmas?
As it is up to us to end war and feed the hungry.
Vj ~ How can you do that when you don't even know you and your belief are the cause?
We are not automatons and we need to take adult responsibility for our world. It is not uncompassionate or unjust for God to require humans and human civilizations to evolve. It is the way of Nature, the way HE chose for us.
Vj ~ Could it not be that He has given us all instructions but civilization had no choice since they were constantly being misled by imbeciles like you, Baha'u'lah, Christ, Mohammad, etc. into expecting further revelations for a cure of their miseries? Doesn't it make sense, that since the first revelation, to Adam and Eve and to the last revelation given to the idiot Baha'u'lah, things did not turn out any better but worst for mankind?
Of course I can, Vijai! Do you think you not only possess all truth but are the only person
who has had spiritual experiences and a spiritual journey?! In case you don't realize it, Vijai, God loves me too, even though I'm "Western"!
Vj ~ God is not looking for salvation, and the question here is not whom He loves, it is you. How can you love anything when you know nothing of God's infinite wisdom? I am guite sure you don't think twice of the wrong committed when billions of innocent creatures are slaughtered to appease the appetite of fools like you and you speak of God's love.
Dialogue 12
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Hello Dr. Nala - February 07, 1999
Vj- Truth can never be ascertained by looking at the universe alone, there must be a source knowledge where one is guided to know what is truth in the first place. By what standards do you ascertain truth to be truth? Because some idiot (Baha'u'lah) appear suddenly from somewhere and says he has the truth, is it the truth?
I am tempted into a personal insult of my own I certainly don't ascertain the truth because some idiot named Vijai Singh suddenly appears from somewhere and says he has the truth so it's the truth. But that would be crawling down to your argumentative level.
Vj ~ No, you are attempting to profess wisdom while still a fool. I may have appeared from somewhere but the message (Vedas) is still the same as it was from the beginning of creation. This is the difference between a wise man and a jackass like you who is as usual stubborn to see it any other way but his. I am not only telling you it is the truth, I am also showing you the way.
In truth, the Baha'i Revelation is not completed. It will manifest itself through time, as have all revelations.
Vj ~ Then it cannot be truth since it is not for all from the beginning of creation. Natural law points to decadence, that is from perfection to imperfection, universality to individuality, righteousness to unrighteousness, etc. so what good is further manifestations in the end? Certainly, it cannot be as it would be working backwards which oppose natural laws.
So YOU, and you alone, or, rather, your CULTURE and your culture alone, is the final judge of who is or is not an idiot?
Vj ~ You ask the question, so here is the answer, yes the Vedas is the source of not only ethics and morals but all sciences. God is Just so it has already been handed down to all of mankind from the beginning of creation. If you know nothing of it, it is not His fault but your own, allowing yourself to be misled and still stubborn enough not to investigate it even though it is presented before you.
That must be very comforting to you. And VERY good for your ego.
Vj ~ Vanity does not affect the wise and as such they have no ego but the goodness of all mankind.
Why did God even bother to create all the rest of us ignorant Western idiots?
Vj ~ The conditions were not created by God but by the previous sinful actions of the soul. A criminal is imprisoned by his actions not by the law or the system. The same with God who is only dispensing justice as He is Just.
To provide fodder for Vijai Singh's intellect? You assign yourself quite a humble position in the scheme of things, don't you?!
Vj ~ Beat being a fool any day.
Perhaps because we have not yet learned to live the old truths, no matter how old or true.
Vj ~ How could it be the same when mine is truth and yours is false?
Well, Vijai, you sure are CONSISTENT, if nothing else!
Vj ~ It would have served you well if your God was that consistent. Truth must be consistent otherwise it would not be truth.
because I need to hear it every moment of ever day.
Vj ~ What about the deaf and dumb, how they hear it? As for the insults treat it as a daily therapy, who knows may be it is not too late for you to find a cure for your ignorance.
Oh come on. That's a ridiculous point. People "hear" spiritual truth through the ears of
: the soul.
Vj ~ And which part of the body is that situated according to your Baha'u'lah? And don't tell me the soul has another backside than the one I know of.
The same way that deaf and dumb Sikhs hear the Vedas.
Vj ~ Now you are contradicting, the Sikh's Guru Nanak, also one of the many lines of messengers of God. Maybe the idiot Baha'u'lah never heard of him or you haven't heard that part yet? Again, it is only a fool would come to such a conclusion without the necessary enquires.
Sorry, Vijai. I am not a fool. To quote a friend of mine "God doesn't make junk"!
Vj ~ And which fool will admit he is a fool. Some 'God' did make junk, what other explanation is there for so many fools?
Vj- Were your Christian counterparts also right when they ascertain the earth to be flat and the sun was moving? The truth was there, but they were ignorant of it, weren't they? The same with the Vedic truths.
Good example. But those people didn't believe the earth was flat because they were Christian.
Vj ~ And who persecuted those (Greek philosophers) who said it was round and the sun was moving?
They believed it because they blinded themselves to the REASONING of the ancient Greeks, who gave powerful scientific reasons to believe the world was round.
Vj ~ If it were you, what tangible proof you would have demanded? I bet, as the fool you are, they would have had to take you up in space ship so that you could see for yourself. But The question still remains that they did not believe, but instead had them persecuted. Couldn't it be the same for fools of today also, to dissaprove of the one true religion despite of powerful and scientific reasoning guided by the correct knowledge and its conformity with natural laws.
I point out, before you tell me how powerful your arguments for the truth of the Vedas is,
that these Greek astronomers didn't INSULT their opponents or just ASSERT their interpretations over and over again, as you are doing.
Vj ~ Of course, it was an insult to their foolish intelligence and their religion (by the way one of your 'God's' revelations in the long line of messengers), why else were they (philosophers) persecuted? Furthermore, if these messengers were themselves ignorant of a spherical earth, how could they have rendered anything else intelligent to their followers?
They (philosophers) presented repeatable observations combined with clearly defined geometric proofs.
Vj ~ True, only as long as they managed to escape persecution.
It shows how little you know by seeing without reasoning -
I reason, Vijai.
Vj ~ Perhaps, but how could it be of benefit without the correct knowledge. All that glitter are not gold. Truth is derived from only one source and when you find it you have found truth.
I couldn't agree more. See: we agree on something!
Vj ~ How could it be when you are still expecting more truths to be revealed in the future, which will be denied to those before?
Vj- Say what want to say, but it does not make your religion or others true.
I didn't SAY they were true. YOU said they were false. There's a difference, you
know.
Vj ~ Better to know where you stand than being in doubt.
Dialogue 13
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Hello Dr. Nala - February 07, 1999
The might of truth is a thorn in the side of fools, but so be it. I have constructively criticize false : religions and have not accused anyone wrongfully. False religions lead to mental thraldom : :which further lead pain and misery, I am only trying to prevent it the only way it can be done.
It is NOT the only way it can be done. It is the only way you are willing to do it.
Vj ~ Sad but true it is not my way, but the way of true religion, how else can it be proven to be true if it does not reject what is false?
That's YOUR cross to bear.
Vj ~ On the contrary, a "cross to bear" is for those who created it.
Vj- I don't have to wonder of how God regards me, it is what I do to acquire His wisdom through true religion. Mankind is only suffering because of idiots like you
I am not an idiot.
Vj ~ Yet to prove me wrong Dr. Nala, who knows nothing of truth and proclaiming your truth to be the truth.
I am not proclaiming anything except that you believe what you believe for reasons no more logical or scientific than anyone else.
Vj ~ I proclaim mine no doubt about it, and I have no regrets, you disapprove doesn't it mean you are proclaiming the opposite? If not what is it then?
And, I also proclaim, you can get pretty nasty when challenged!
Vj ~ If you were nasty-free by your ‘true’ faith, how could I or anyone else have affected you? If He is merciful by all other faiths how do you explain the pain and misery of the world?
Because WE have to fix the world. God helps us, but the responsibility is ours.
Vj ~ How can God help you when you have rejected His true religion (Vedic)?
Civilization has come of age, we are adults. This is the Baha'i Teaching. I don't insist on its truth and proclaim that I can prove it. But it makes sense to me.
Vj ~ How can it make sense when you cannot proclaim its truth? You are really good at proving yourself a fool. Makes it effortless for me. For example, you and I, Vijai, have entered into this East/West argument instead of finding unity.
Vj ~ How can there be unity in wisdom and ignorance since it takes either to prove the other right or wrong?
The Baha'i Faith teaches that we are, therefore, BOTH wrong because we are acting like children.
Vj ~ Then your faith is in trouble, when with all these long lines of messengers who have come and gone, and yet there is no remedy in sight for the pains and miseries of the world. Could it be that you like the others have ignored the truth of the past and living on false hope - the future?
Our little argument is of no consequence. But what would happen if you had an army and I had an army?
Vj ~ Since the company of the wise are few, I would have been obliterated (like the Greek philosophers) from the face of the planet by fools (the majority) and since my only weapon would be wisdom (truth).
And we were shouting this argument across a disputed border like in Kashmir? Well, we know what would happen.
Vj ~ The wise know what would happen, but a fool always wonder what happened.
This is childishness and the human race(starting, of course with ME) has to stop it.
Vj ~ How could you or the human race stop it when Christ, Baha'u'lah, Mohammad and the long string of messengers have failed to do it?
God has revealed over and over that He will not intervene if we act like foolish children, because we won't ever grow up.
Vj ~ You haven't been reading your Bible, he intervened by floods, fire and brimstones, plagued, famine and destroyed 70,000 Isrealites. Talk about promise, eh! And you expect me to put my trust in such a God. Can you see how far you are from being wise? I doubt it because then you won't be such a big fool.
Consider what the Africans say: "God causes drought. But man causes famine." I think that says it all.
Vj ~ If "that says it all", why do you need further revelation from the Baha'u'lah?
Dialogue 14
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Hello Dr. Nala - February 08, 1999
Vj- A fool always sees insult even in wisdom what good then can come out of the answer?
Thank you. But I a not a fool.
Vj ~ Who says you are? Second: It doesn't even address the point.
Vj ~ What sense would it make to an idiot?
I am also not an idiot.
Vj ~ Who says you are?
Vj- And what have you truly understood so far, that I have only insulted you and all others, fitting of fools indeed.
Excuse me, Vijai. I clearly understand that you believe I am a fool, even though I'm not.
Vj ~ If you clearly understand this aspect of my belief, why don't you accept the others also?
Vj- This statement defines an imbecile, who knows nothing of God and the Laws that governs the universe. The four evidences I have given is presently used in our judicial system how can it be assertions if it was not genuine.
First, I am not an imbecile.
Vj ~ Who says you are? Second, many judicial priciples have been subsequently rejected as not genuine. For example, the racist anti-Jewish laws of the Nazis.
Vj ~ So you have decided to single-handedly reject all other principles as genuine based on those evidences, because of this one? You would be one to reject a whole bushel of apples because of one bad one. Baha'u'lah must be turning in his grave right now.
I know this much the source of mathematics is the Vedas, and mathematics does not prove the existence of a God, unless you have a mathematical formula in your pocket somewhere.
That's RIGHT, Vijai. That's the whole point. One cannot PROVE assertions about God. One simply has to believe them.
Vj ~ When the Bible could not have enlightened Christians on the roundness of the earth and plurality of the worlds, they applied belief, and yet it failed them? It was not until a greater knowledge (correct), not new by the way by further revelations, but rediscovered, came to light that we knew different. So what good was belief to those, who have already gone not benefiting from this truth, in the absence of correct knowledge?
Therefore it is meaningless to classify some religions as "illogical" or "unreasonable". All religious people rely on faith.
Vj ~ Relying on faith not knowing whether it is blind or not, is not what any sensible person would do. So why would you want to encourage it?
It is only those Western idiots like yourself who have ascertained the age of the Vedas. The Vedic revelation is eternal and occurs in the beginning of every creation.
I am Western, true. But I am NOT an idiot!
Vj ~ What would you or your God have called those that rejects true religion if there was one?
Vj- So why don't you accept the definition of "eternal" the same way as a fact, which breeches the eternity of false religions' hell and heaven?
A definition is just an arbitrary convention as to the meaning of a word. I will accept your definition of "eternal" if that's what you insist upon.
Vj ~ I am not insisting, it is for your benefit not mine.
Vj- It is by pondering the same subject over and over that wise men gained their wisdom. A fool only wants to hear it once and this is why he remains a fool.
Vijai, this was PRECISELY the point I made about "hearing" the same Revelation over and over again. You objected, even, to my use of the word "hear".
Vj ~ I objected because if it is the same revelation what is the necessity for revealing it over and over when it is already there. But here you yourself is now contradicting your faith when you said, that all truths have not been revealed yet and more is expected in the future.
Dialogue 15
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Hello Dr. Nala - February 08, 1999
In fact, below these lines, you make highly disparaging remarks about Baha'u'llah and myself because of my use of the word "hear". Yet you allow yourself to use the same logic, the very same words. Obviously, this is contradictory and unfair but, just as obviously, this won't matter in the least to you.
Vj ~ It is not unfair, since it is the wise who deals with it repetitiously to grow in wisdom while fools believe it is useless to keep on repeating it. Moreso, what sense would it make for you to ponder over and over or hear over and over when it would be impossible for you to become wise, since all truths, according to your Baha'u'lah, are not revealed or known to man yet? As a matter of fact, how can the Baha'u'lah, Christ, Moses, Mohammad be considered wise men when they are deprived of all the truths that is yet to come?
without personal insults, in an attempt to make people eventually stop arguing with you and go away. I'm sure that eventually they do exactly that.
Vj ~ Again the joy of the wise is his wisdom, not in a fool who comes or goes.
Then, I'm afraid Vijai, you will have a lot of joy.
Vj ~ I won't say it but I will let you guess this time, who would usually be afraid of my joy?
One more personal insult (I am not ignorant by the way.)
Vj ~ Again I ask you, how would you know that you are not?
Because I have Faith in God, Who would not lead me astray.
Vj ~ Look at the two thieves who were crucified next to Jesus, they had no faith in God like Jesus, and yet all gained salvation. How is this possible? How can you begin to put your faith in such a God who could send one, who rape or murder your wife or daughter, next to her and you in heaven? Is this what you call reasoning or Baha'i logic?
It is true that I know little of the Vedic religion. But I know a great deal about science and logic
Vj ~ Science and logic is Vedic theology which shows how little you know. One who lacks Vedic wisdom (abstruse science of God and natural laws) is a master scientist and logician among fools.
Well, obviously not the "science and logic" which I have studied. You may call what you do "logic and science", but you mean by those words something quite different than the rest of the word.
Vj ~ I hope I do, because it is what makes the difference between true religion and ignorance (false religions).
and I know when an assertion has not been proved. And you've proven none of yours.
Vj ~ No one proved it to me either, I seek the evidences by the correct knowledge and it will have to be the same for everyone else, except for a fool where there is no cure.
You started the sentence so well! No insults, simple statements of your own experiences.
But, unfortunately, you couldn't help calling names.
Vj ~ If you are intelligent enough to know that it is an unfortunate circumstance for you why is it difficult for you to realize that it is fools, who fight and go to war because they are the only ones who can be insulted? A wiseman can never be insulted why? Because he is far above ignorance, and anyone who follows in the footstep of such a man will reap the same benefits. This now leaves me with the only conclusion that you are insulted because the one you follow was himself a fool. Vj- Natural laws which call for repeated occurrences, if man evolved from lower species, then it must be a law which should never ceased but for thousands of years there has been no such occurrences. Why?
Because evolution is profoundly slow. Thousands of years is nothing in evolutionary terms. But even now there are small evidences. For example, the shortening of modern jaws which often require removing the wisdom teeth.
Vj ~ What about creation itself, it is no longer a process, but how come wise men know that they are steady occurrences? This is neither the first nor the last creation.
The wise are in harmony with each other when it comes to truth, it is not so in the world of science where scientists are in dispute with each other.
Knowledge is a slow and difficult process.
It can't be short-circuited to achieve a comforting certainty.
Vj ~ Could it not be because of the absence of the correct knowledge?
Vj- And what logic and experiment do you use to prove the existence of God to an athiest scientists?
I don't try, Vijai. Generally their minds are too closed.
Vj ~ What makes it different for you whom I consider to have a static intellect (non-functional)? What had advanced genuine science has been deeply religious scientists, such as my hero Johannes Kepler, who have investigated physical reality in order to discover God's harmony expressed there.
Vj- If science did it for him, then he did better than the Baha'u'lah, isn't it?
I attempt to do the same but it is difficult.
Vj ~ Could it not be that your faith is the hindrance?
My belief in God, as does yours, arises from inner proofs and inexpressible personal experiences.
Vj ~ Correction, your belief in God, and yet you ask for proofs (objective evidences).
I have have to accept what blessing God gives me and leave others to find their own way.
Vj ~ Rather selfish indeed! How can they find their own if they know not the way?
He doesn't have to resort to personal insult or mere repetition of his assertions.
Vj ~ How could he when he is also a fool like you?
I am not a fool.
Vj ~ You keeping saying that over and over, could it be that you are too closed-minded like the atheists?
The wise do not have to prove anything, they only show us the way. The same with God, who gave us one revelation in the beginning and does not have to prove His existence by miracles, mediators and further revelations. Why does God has to prove Himself to fool?
I never claimed He did have to. YOU claimed that you could PROVE your Religion to be the only true one.
Vj ~ It can only be true to those who allowed their reasoning to be guided by the correct knowledge.
Dialogue 16
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Hello Dr. Nala - February 08, 1999
You keep shifting away from that claim and trying to change the focus onto the nature of God.
Vj ~ As if you understand the nature of God. Shouldn't man adopt the nature (truth, consciouness and bliss) of God, to attain the blissful state He enjoys? When that state is realized can there ever be disharmony among mankind?
But I'm too smart for that, VIjai. I know what you claimed and I know that you do not have the ability to back up your claim.
Vj ~ And where is the ability to back your claim of being smart?
I reason according to the principles of the very science which you allegedly support: deduction from axioms, and induction from experience.
Vj ~ I support it only when it is in harmony with true religion. If scientist sees it the same way there would be no imprecisions of their conclusions.
That is no way to learn science because you end up rejecting truth because of your inability to conceive of possibilities.
Vj ~ The Vedas are the highest of all abstruse sciences. It is complete and since it is all there with nothing else to come, that makes them infallible. On the other hand, you do not have a definition for truth.
There is ONE God and ONE Truth and therefore science and religion must be conformable.
Vj ~ And how is science “comfortable” when it existed long before your religion (Baha'I - 100 years, Christianity - 2000 years, Islam - 1400 years and Sikhism - 600 years)? But that doesn't mean that finding that harmony
is easy. It isn't.
Vj ~ So why hold on to a (Baha'I) faith that is so difficult to bring about harmony?
The theory of evolution, for example, is NOT in contradiction to faith.
Vj ~ Faith itself is in contradiction with faith, muchless evolution. What lesson can be learn from that? When they both contradict the laws of nature there are valuable lessons for those who can reason. But many people believe it is. This is only becuase they haven't thought long and deeply enough about the ways that God reveals His Name, the Creator.
Vj ~ How can you blame them when you, like them, solely rely on an irrational belief?
But sometimes, when new results are discovered, all one can do is have faith that the harmony is really there, even if our knowledge and our minds are not yet great enough to conceive it.
Vj ~ You are beginning to think like the wise "new results discovered" not revealed. Minds that cannot conceive it are lacking the correct knowledge.
Only fools are insulted including Sikhs. This simple prove your ignorance; by what notion are you classifying me as a Sikh? Had you done some research into my site, as I expected a man of science wouldn't do, you would have found that I have also criticized Sikhism.
I apologize, Vijai. I was falsely under the impression that all people named "Singh" were Sikhs. Now I know otherwise. I meant no personal insult by it.
Vj ~ How could it be an insult when it is so useful in proving my point that in the same way could it not be, by false impression of religion that you are also being misled?
Vj- How else can true religion be true if the others are not false?
Because truth isn't that simple. It's not always a question of yes/no, black/white. Are people completely good? No. Then are they completely bad? Also no.
Vj ~ It is not good or bad that proves religion to be true, it is reasoning guided by the correct knowledge.
Dialogue 17
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Hello Dr. Nala - February 08, 1999
A religion can be truth in some ways and not in others. They are like different languages expressing fundamentally the same thoughts.
Vj ~ There is only one language that expresses true religion, and it (Sanskrit) is the source of all languages because it is the only complete language in the world today. The grammar of Panini is widely used today by modern scientist who have in this century, beginning with the British and Germans, found it to be the shortest and most convenient processes to all their scientific theories which were until then, most tedious and cumbersome.
Shakespeare was written in English and probably
can't be easily translated into another language. Does that make all other playwrites false? Of course not. Shakespeare was an Englishman writing for other other Englishmen about the English experience.
Vj ~ Something must have gone wrong for him too, I doubt whether he founded true religion inspite of it.
More personally, you have called people who are not of your Faith "ignorant", "fools", "unable to reason", and the like.
Vj ~ And whom do you see as more qualified to do so?
Certainly not you, Vijai. I respect you, but I have seen nothing in your writing that qualifies you to judge others' wisdom.
Vj ~ Did your closed-minded athiest scientist saw anything in your writings, Dr. Nala or could it be that you are no different from them? You would have to be wise to judge me unwise as one is wise to judge you a fool.
Even though you do not recognized yourself as one, you have to admit that there are fools out there and it is only the wise knows them best.
I don't know. It really isn't important to me. I will be called by God to account for MY actions, not those of others.
Vj ~ This is even worst; with me you have chance to correct your actions before you go to Him. Unless you have the great expectations that He offers the same reward to a fool as He would a wiseman. Do you?
Later in this letter, you refer to both Baha'u'llah and Jesus as "idiots". These are utterly false acuusations because if there is one thing which Baha'u'llah and Jesus weren't, it's idiots.
Vj ~ Anyone who misleads the innocent by contradicting the Attributes of God and natural laws is a fool. I see nothing false so far.
Neither Baha'u'llah nor Jesus did that. You say they did.
Vj ~ It is only true religion that can enlighten man of the knowledge of natural laws, how would you, Christ and Baha'u'lah know whether they have breeched these laws or not?
But all you mean by that is that they did not lead people to agree with your dogmatism.
Vj ~ If they did, it would have not have required miracles, a violation of natural laws, to prove that God is at work.
It is up to human civiliization to provide the truths of science.
Vj ~ How can they if they are being misled, for ages, by false religions?
I believe it is more difficult if they are mislead. But not impossible. Obviously not, since we a re communicating by means of technology that only existed in this decade.
Vj ~ How would you know that it did not exist before since your religion is only hundred years old?
As it is up to us to end war and feed the hungry.
Vj ~ How can you do that when you don't even know you and followers of false dogmas are causing it?
I share the same responsibility for it as everyone else on this planet, even you.
Vj ~ The difference is, I am doing something about it while you are simply sitting on your fat ass, refuting my efforts, and awaiting further revelations which obviously aren't coming. If past ones have failed you what makes you think future ones are going to going to do the job. Isn't this quality of faith reminiscent of a lazy, self-conceited imbecile, who would sit and wait for God to drop everything in his lap, instead of getting up and get?
Dialogue 18
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Hello Dr. Nala - February 08, 1999
We are not automatons and we need to take adult responsibility for our world. It is not uncompassionate or unjust for God to require humans and human civilizations to evolve. It is the way of Nature, the way HE chose for us.
Vj ~ Could it not be that He has given us all instructions but civilization had no choice since they were constantly being misled by imbeciles like you. Besides, could it not be that souls are guilty of prior sins (false beliefs), the cause of pain and misery, that they are being punished? If not, why are they (especially children) being punished for no fault of their own?
I am not an imbecile
Vj ~ Who else then, can mislead the down-trodden? Baha'u'lah, Christ, Mohammad, etc.who have promised further revelations to cure their miseries? Doesn't it make sense since further revelations, from Adam and Eve to the last idiot Baha'u'lah, did not make things any better but worst for mankind?
He is surely not an idiot
Vj ~ Don't worry there is nothing dead men (conniving ignoramus) can do if you call them idiots.
Baha'u'llah has not made things worse.
Vj ~ I call another false religion worst, it is another division one has to cope with and another sect born to face persecution (pain and misery).
Perhaps for YOU because it prevents your sliding into the comfortable, simple, dogmatic world that you long for.
Vj ~ But our discussion certainly does not speak of it that way, does it?
Of course I can, Vijai! Do you think you not only possess all truth but are the only person who has had spiritual experiences and a spiritual journey?! In case you don't realize it, Vijai, God loves me too, even though I'm "Western"!
Vj ~ God is not looking for salvation, and the question here is not whom He loves, it is you. How can you love anything when you know nothing of God's infinite wisdom?
I said nothing about my love for others. I WAS speaking about God's love for me. You chose to change the subject for your own reasons. It is a question of His Love. Because He created us both out of that Love, and guides us both where we need to be lead by that Love.
Vj ~ Yes His love is true religion since He sent it in the beginning for all mankind to guide us to His wisdom, how would you get it if you are rejecting it? What good is God’s love when you have failed so miserably to love yourself, by rejecting is
true eternal revelation.
I am guite sure you don't think twice of the wrong committed when billions of innocent creatures are slaughtered to appease the appetite of fools like you and you speak of God's love.
I think about it constantly, endlessly. And they are not slaughtered to appease MY appetite.
Vj ~ What is there to think about when you can't stop eating them? Of course you do know that they have to be first slaughtered?
I couldn't read a newspaper for two years after the horror in Rwanda because I was so upset.
Vj ~ The opposite happened to me, I read more newspapers in that two years than I ever did in any other two-year period of my life. It shows that the failure of false religions, and the results they reaped. Even though it is God's Divine Justice, it was the actions cause by false belief that bring about these punishments and yet mankind can be so foolish not to recognized it as such.
Slaughter and death in Kosovo, Africa, the Middle East, now the madness in Indonesia and India. Starvation hovering over the children of the world when we have far more than we can ever use. Millions of those children dying daily from simple lack of salt and clean water. Every moment of every day I think about these things. And always war.
Vj ~ What good can your little thinking do, Dr. Nala? If you like the rest can't see God's handiwork at hand because of false religions, what else do you need to know, except God coming down personally to tell you so. And again, I will say it, only a fool would live with such expectations. Children, not old enough to sin, are suffering and yet have no brains to question the compassion of your God.
Vj- Truth can never be ascertained by
looking at the universe alone, there must be source knowledge where one is guided to know what is truth in the first place. By what standards do you :ascertain truth to be truth? Because some idiot (Baha'u'lah) appear suddenly from somewhere and says he has the truth it is the truth.
I am tempted into a personal insult of my own I certainly don't ascertain the truth because some idiot named Vijai Singh suddenly appears from somewhere and says he has the truth so it's the truth. But that would be crawling down to your argumentative level.
Vj ~ No, you are attempting to profess wisdom while still a fool. I may have appeared from somewhere but the message (Vedas) is still the same as the beginning of creation. This is the difference between a wise man and a jackass who is as usual stubborn to see it any other way but his.
Dialogue 19
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Hello Dr. Nala - February 08, 1999
Well, the phrase "a jackass who is as usual stubborn to see it any other way but his" certainly applies to ONE of us!
Vj ~ Which means only the wise know, and where does that leave you, Sir?
In truth, the Baha'i Revelation is not completed. It will manifest itself through time, as have all revelations.
Vj ~ Then it cannot be truth from a just, merciful and compassionate God, since billions born before it, will be deprived of it.
That's just you're belief.
Vj ~ And a rational one at that too!
Natural law points to decadence, that is from perfection to imperfection, universality to individuality, righteousness to unrighteousness, etc. so what good is further manifestations in the end? Certainly, it cannot be as it would be working backwards which oppose natural laws.
I agree. The material universe left on its own can do nothing but decay, because it is dead. It is God Who gives it Life, and the property of Life is newness, change, motion. Not stasis. A static Revelation is dead.
Vj ~ I don't see your point - whether it is left on its own or not there is decay. Like our physical bodies, it is born and it dies but when it all starts it is perfection, innocence, purity and newness - whatever and then the process of decay begins - the same with righteousness in the beginning as universal and can never end the same way - another reason that proves the Baha'u'lah a big dunce like Christ, Mohammad and the others he called God's messengers.
So YOU, and you alone, or, rather, your CULTURE and your culture alone, is the final judge of who is or is not an idiot?
Vj ~ You ask the question, so here is the answer, yes the Vedas is the source of not only ethics and morals but all sciences. God is Just so it has already been handed down to all of mankind from the beginning of creation. If you know nothing of it, it is not His fault but your own, allowing yourself to be misled.
God would not mislead me, because He loves me.
Vj ~ It is not up to God to lead or mislead. He has already set His instructions in motion, and it is up to us to follow or reject. The latter perfectly fits your faith. Even when the Pope, Christ's vicar, is suffering miserably, one would have to wonder where is God's love or whether he was mislead by his God. That must be very comforting to you. And VERY good for your ego.
Vj ~ Vanity does not affect the wise and as such they have no ego, but only the common good for all mankind.
Allright, Vijai. I won;t press the point. But, one person to another, you would really do yourself a lot of spiritual good if you would occasionally examine your own motives. Why did God even bother to create all the rest of us ignorant Western idiots?
Vj ~ The conditions were not created by God but by the previous sinful actions of the soul. A criminal is imprisoned by his evil actions not by the law or the system. The same with God who is only dispensing justice as He is Just.
I see. So it is the idea of karma. Well, Vijai, you FINALLY tought me something about Vedic theology. Thank you.
Vj ~ The best results of teaching is when one learns, I doubt you have achieved the latter.
To provide fodder for Vijai Singh's intellect? You assign yourself quite a humble position in the scheme of things, don't you?!
Vj ~ Beat being a fool any day.
Truthfully, I'd rather be a fool than a hypocrite. I think it's spiritually safer.
Vj ~ In my book, there is no difference since a fool (you) is born out of a hypocrite (Baha’u’alah).
Well, Vijai, you sure are CONSISTENT, if nothing else!
Vj ~ It would have served you well if your God was that consistent also!
MY God is YOUR God. There is only One.
Vj ~ There is only one God, but opposing dogmas, yours included, do not speak of one God.
Dialogue 20
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Hello Dr. Nala - February 08, 1999
Vj ~ Now you are contradicting, the Sikh's Guru Nanak, also one of the many lines of messengers of God. Maybe the idiot Baha'u'lah never heard of him or you haven't heard that part yet?
Sorry, Vijai. I am not a fool. To quote a friend of mine "God doesn't make junk"!
Vj ~ And which fool will admit he is a fool. Some 'God' did make junk, what other explanation is there for so many fools?
Good question, I think.
Vj ~ By your response you are not even sure either.
Vj- If it were you, what tangible proof you would have demanded? I bet, as the fool you are, they would have had to take you up in space ship so that you could have seen for yourself.
Perhaps. I am grateful to have been born when I was. None can be sure what they would do in another place and time. Not even you.
Vj ~ But The question still remains that they did not believe, but instead had them persecuted. Couldn't it be the same for fools of today also, to disapprove of the one true religion despite of powerful and scientific reasoning of correct knowledge and in conformity with natural laws.
Yes. I agree with you, it certainly could be. I point out, before you tell me how powerful your arguments for the truth of the Vedas is,
: : that these Greek astronomers didn't INSULT their opponents or just ASSERT their interpretations over and over again, as you are doing.
Vj ~ Of course, it was an insult to their foolish intelligence and their religion (by the way one of your 'God's' revelations in the long line of messengers), why else were they (philosophers) persecuted?
I reason, Vijai.
Vj ~ How how could it be without the proper guidance of the correct knowledge?
Once again, I agree with you. I cannot be certain that I have the correct knowlege, so I keep looking, learning and praying for guidance.
Vj ~ How helpful can your prayer be, when you haven’t found the true God of the universe yet?
Vj- Better to know where you stand than being in doubt.
I don't believe that at all. Self-doubt is an attribute of the truly wise because ONLY GOD is Omniscient.
Vj ~ An Omnisicient God would have revealed all truths from the very beginning, depriving none.
I proclaim mine no doubt about and I have no regrets, you disapprove doesn't it mean you are proclaiming the opposite? If not what is it then?
No. Your religion doesn't have to be false for mine to be true also.
Vj ~ It must be since I have no mediator and you steadily proclaim long lines of messengers.
Correct! But I'm flesh and blood and full of sin. I work on myself as much as I can.
Vj ~ If He is merciful by all other faiths how do you explain the pain and misery of the world?
Dialogue 21
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Hello Dr. Nala - February 08, 1999
Because WE have to fix the world. God helps us, but the responsibility is ours.
Vj ~ How can God help you and those needed to be fixed, when you have rejected His true religion (Vedas)?
Civilization has come of age, we are adults. This is the Baha'i Teaching. I don't insist on its truth and proclaim that I can prove it. But it makes sense to me.
Vj ~ How can it make sense when you cannot proclaim its truth? You are really good at proving yourself a fool. Makes it effortless for me.
Who can say? You yourself said you rejected the Vedas for 15 years. Yet now you
accept them. Don't you believe that God lead you to wisdom? So perhaps things
will change. None knows the future but God.
Vj ~ I cannot reject what I don know. But by thorough and impartial inquires into all faiths, they all become known to me and certainly the best position to be in to reject or accept. You will have to do the same if you must ascertain truth from untruth also.
Because I don't limit my intellect by requiring certainty of my beliefs. We are truly finite creatures and cannot comprehend the Infinite Truth. All that our minds can comprehend is finite, but God is Infinite. Thus whatever is in my head has to be a little false but, with God's help, also a little true.
Vj ~ How would you know what we can comprehend or not if you have resigned yourself to be an ignorant finite creature?
For example, you and I, Vijai, have entered into this East/West argument instead of finding unity.
Vj ~ How can there be unity in wisdom and ignorance since it takes either to prove the other right or wrong?
The Baha'i Faith teaches that we are, therefore, BOTH wrong because we are acting like children.
Vj ~ Then your faith is in trouble, when with all these long lines of messengers who have come and gone, and yet there is no remedy in sight for the pains and miseries of the world.
There IS a remedy in sight. We can end war without agreement on all points. We can merely agree to stop fighting.
Vj ~ Couldn’t it be that you like the others who have ignored the truth of the past and living on false hope of future revelations?
This is childishness and the human race(starting, of course with ME) has to stop it.
Vj ~ How could you or the human race stop it when Christ, Baha'u'lah, Mohammad and the long string of messengers have failed to do it?
Dialogue 22
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Reply to Dr.Nala on January 26, 1999
Thus, according to the interpretation, God's attribute of Justice transcends human comprehension. All religions agree on this point:
Vj ~ Except in the case of true religion which ascertain all others as false.
I'm a member of the Baha'i Faith which teaches that religion evolves, as mankind evolves,
and that there is no one true faith.
Vj ~ Could it not be that truth is truth and must remain the same truth for all ages? I see it as just, since it is there for everyone from the beginning. There can be no lower truth or newer truth to be revealed since many would have been deprived. Religions have evolved yes but only since the past 5,000 years, and it is because mankind has rejected, as you now are doing, this truth. What was there before this period?
I was very impressed with your presentation of the tenets
of the Baha'i Faith. But, of course, you don't really understand it or you would not be
able to dismiss it so blithely.
Vj ~ What is there to understand in a religion that was founded about a hundred years ago? If it is new truths it is an injustice and if it is consisted of old truths what was the necessity for it when these truths already existed. A religion, with its entire (whole) revelation, that was not there in the beginning for all of mankind is an injustice and by now you should know that the Omnipotent God of the Universe cannot be unjust.
Dialogue 23
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Hello David M - on January 30, 1999
A great book on the early Christians, and how they were eventually "snuffed out" by the bad guys. The Lost Years of Jesus by Elizabeth Clare Prophet. Documented evidence of Jesus' "lost" years in the far east. The Secret Teachings of Jesus by Marvin Meyer. Four Gnostic texts that were not included in the bible. Great teachings, including the Gospel of Thomas. Peace, David
Vj ~ I have heard of such a mission and it makes sense since the Bible has no account of his life during that period. It would be difficult for any intelligent person to believe that a man can acquire such wisdom by being only a carpenter. Thanks for the information, but there is more important work ahead than proving Biblical fallacies.
I am a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist, ... I am a student of the universal truths that have come forth. In the Church I belong to, we embrace the mystical paths of the world's religions. In one of our services, we may sing Krishna bajans, do Buddhists and Hindu mantras, give a rosary to Mother Mary, and chant the names of God in Hebrew.
Vj ~ Sounds more like you are completely lost. The choice of chartering one path, instead of many, is more likely to take you to your destination.
The great Indian saint Ramakrishna was able to attain divine union with God by studying any of the world's religions.
Vj ~ And who was the idiot that came to such conclusion that the other idiot "attain divine union with God"?
During a mountaintop meditation, he visualized many people climbing to the top of the mountain in all different directions.
Vj ~ More like someone who would 'build castles in the air'. So why is it necessary for the wise to seek wisdom when a fool can gain salvation also?
The are many paths to the top, and Jesus showed us the way. So did Buddha, and Krishna, and Moses, and Zarathrustra, and Mohammad, ...They all embodied a different aspect of God's consciousness.
Vj ~ Abraham (Adulterer), Moses, murderer, and Mohammad was an illiterate lustful sex maniac who had eleven wives, one his own daughter-in-law and another a nine year-old girl-child, what aspect of God's consciousness called for this embodiment to lead mankind to salvation?
Religious fanaticism and intolerance has caused much misery in the world.
Vj ~ Fanatics are those who shed blood in a cause of false religions and religious tolerance is no different since it only deals with postponing the obvious for future generations to deal with.
Can we not look past the outer manifestations of human imperfection, and recognize the light of God in people, in the rich and diverse spiritual truths that have come forth from many cultures and traditions?
Vj ~ The light of God can only be seen in one truth, and it was this truth that kept mankind in peace and harmony before 6,000 years ago. It can be so again but only through the one true religion of the Vedas.
God is love, and he is in you and in me. Let us be wise as serpents, but harmless as doves.
Vj ~ Dove maybe harmless but I can't see any wisdom in a serpent since their nature is to attack. Condemnation and criticism is a vibration that destroys. Let us be constructive and harmonious.
Vj ~ Condemnation of what is false by disseminating what is truth is conducive to peace and harmony. It is the only solution for world peace.
Dialogue 24
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Hello David M - February 03, 1999
For example, the crown chakra is yellow, which carry's the qualities of wisdom, enlightenment, and understanding to name a few.
Vj ~ How can a mere light bring us wisdom, enlightenment, and understanding without the practice of the correct knowledge?
The Buddha brought forth the teachings on this ray.
Vj ~ And now there is no God in Buddhism. Can the Buddhists still see this light?
All of the world's major religion's represent an aspect of God's consciousness on a particular ray.
Vj ~ Most of these religions butchered innocent cows, what “particular ray” or consciousness does that bring?
Another example would be Christianity representing the Heart chakra. The Heart chakra has qualities of love, compassion. forgiveness, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus demonstrated these qualities as an example of what we can do also.
Vj ~ Because of Jesus, billions of innocent creatures are slaughtered to appease the appetite of Christians, not to mentioned the millions human beings that were subjected to its tyranny and barbarism (slavery, etc.), is this what you call compassion, love, mercy and forgiveness?
Hinduism corresponds to the base of the spine chakra, the Mother light. Some of the qualities of the base chakra are purity, joy, hope, and discipline.
Vj ~ According to this post Hinduism doesn't know whether its coming or going. These aspects are only physical it is still ignorant practices void of true knowledge.
Now the white light does contain all of the qualities of the other rays, and the Vedas do represent that "root", or base chakra.
Vj ~ The Vedas is the source of all knowledge and if you had studied it, you would not have been misleading so many.
However, there are many paths back to God, and all of the great saints east and west have demonstrated cosmic law by embodying certain aspects of the Godhead.
Vj ~ Lord Krishna says "the company of the wise are few" referring to this age of Kaliyug so who created these great saints? There is only one path to God and that is the true path of the Vedas..any other path leads to pain and misery. Certainly they all had attainment in many areas.
Vj ~ And what attainment is there for those saints who eat innocent cows?
My hope is that we can move beyond the differences in doctrine and realize that the true mystical paths of all the world's religions can lead us home.
Vj ~ You are dreaming, these religions all oppose each other, how can they all lead to one God?
In fact, we can embrace all the sacred truths that have come forth, knowing that God is one and we are one.
Vj ~ If God is one and we are one, then truth also must be one.
Dialogue 25
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Hello Loki - February 04, 1999
Sounds like one form of tyranny jealous of another.All forms of religion have played the fool tyranny.Protection or persecution?Its easy to point the finger;Its hard to learn.
Vj ~ Not it is your turn to learn that this true religion of the Vedas never feared the advancement of science, nor was it guilty of terrors of the Inquisition. It never shed the blood of a Galileo, a Copernicus or a Bruno.
There is no truth in religion.(just lies)
Vj ~ Well done Loki - it is better to be an atheist than a hypocrite.
Your bold words to David confirms my suspicions;You're a tyrant.
Vj ~ You are indeed a genious - I am tyrant when it comes to exposing false religions.
Religion is man made; It can't respect itself so why should I?
Vj ~ I couldn't have said it any better.
And yet I've learned one thing about the truth,it can't be harnessed for fools.
Vj ~ It means you are somewhere in between, but still way ahead of fools.
Dialogue 26
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Hello Baharna - February 08, 1999
There is no truth in religion.(just lies)Your bold words to David confirms my suspicions;You're a tyrant.Religion is man made;It can't respect itself so why should I?And yet I've learned one thing about the truth,it can't be harnessed for a fools.
no truth in religion, eh? then where are we to look? i know the answer, but it's way too easy, i'm not just giving it away.
Vj ~ Step on it barhana, who are you kidding - you don't know whether you are going or coming. Here is a man who thirsts for it, and as selfish as I would expect you to be, you won't give him the answer.
hey, you suddenly got mean. i don't think i like this side of you. as a matter of fact i DO know, and i won't tell because it's not my place to impose my beleifs on others, nor is it your's. it has nothing to do with being selfish, the answer simply isn't mine to give.
Vj ~ I Agree when it comes to belief, because it is false, but there is no restrictions for truth. If you don't have an answer to give, it simply means you don't have it.
everything man-made may be tarnished, but that does not mean humanity itself is forever gone.
Vj ~ It does not look any other way to me but gone (lost).
because you are a pessimist, and that is how you suffer.
Vj ~ The wise never suffer, since even in pain there is joy. It fools who suffer and remain gullible to what they are brainwashed to believe. i have found truth itself to be a harmful thing, since no one has the same version of the truth and all have too much pride to consider they might be mistaken.
Vj ~ True, very harmful to fools and the only reason you don't know it yet is that a fool can never admit he is a fool. everyone who disagrees with you is not a fool. you assume that you know everything, when in fact i am sure you know very little. the fool is the man who does not admit to himself how much he does not know.
Vj ~ I am not claiming to know all, but I do know enough to recognize a fool when I see one which is more than you know.
the truth is i am god, and you can't prove any different. so there.
Vj ~ God does not go to the toilet. Do you need anymore proof you are not god?
you don't know god doesn't go to the toilet, nor do you know that i do go to the toilet. you know very little, as do the rest of us.
Vj ~ I know this that God is subtle spirit with no bodily organs to consume or excrete. You, on the other, and like me, has physical organs, consume and excrete. Even with the little I know I have proven you wrong which leaves you as nothing but a perfect dunce.
Dialogue 27
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Hello Dangerous Dave - February 07, 1999
Whoa! What a discussion. I've just finished reading the whole thing form top to bottom. There were some pretty interesting ideas tossed around. Now it's my turn.
Vj ~ Go head, make yourself an idiot?
Out of all of it. I think baharna made the most sense. (Thou art most wise and quick of wit. I can see that Steamhat's devotion is well placed).
Vj ~ Quite interesting - one fool to another. Vj, I think you have a problem.
Vj ~ Whoo! I am relieved; you are not sure. You are more dangerous than a tyrant. A tyrant has a cause.
Vj ~ And whom have I persecuted - inquisition or otherwise!.
You lie in wait while we post messages here and then you strike, like a coyote steals a child from a backyard. You lash out at anyone and anything that is not of you.
Vj ~ Same can be said of all the mediators of false religions, as they strive on the gullible and since they have followers in recorded numbers they must be worst than coyotes or you are truly a blind idiot.
There is only one true religion, bullshit. We've been down that dark and deadly path once too many times.
Vj ~ How can an intellect clouded with the smell of bullshit ever find true religion?
The Catholics and the Protesetants during the Reformation, the Spanish Inquisition, Hitler and the Jews, Iran and Iraq, need I go on. Is that what you want, VJ. Your own cleansing of those who are impure because they don't share your faith.
Vj ~ They are impure like you because they do not share a faith that is in harmony with reasoning. If they had, there would have been none of the atrocities you mentioned earlier.
Your own Inquisition. I liken you to members of the Inqusition, not because I dislike you, but because you're arrogant, megolomaniacal and ignorant as were the Inquisitors. What makes your "one true faith" the greatest?
Vj ~ For start this true religion of the Vedas never feared the advancement of science, nor was it guilty of terrors of the Inquisition. It never shed the blood of a Galileo, a Copernicus or a Bruno.
I can see nothing that appeals to me.
Vj ~ It is not supposed to be appealing to a fool. Besides, wasn’t it the same thing said when they were told that the earth was spheical?
(Opps, now I've done it. I've gone and condemned myself to damnation.)
Vj ~ Don't worry, you are in the majority, and that what makes a fool feel good..
Who are you to impose your will and faith upon others. No one is that righteous. No one is righteous period.
Vj ~ You must have been there to know that. There is no imposition, if you see truth in it, you take it or remain a fool, compulsion being so. On the other hand, I have a duty dessiminate truth. A united world, possible, yes. Problematic at best. But not under one religion. Maybe under one government, but not a singular faith.
Vj ~ You have just mentioned the problems of the world above. The fragmentation of nations, like India, Russsia, Yugoslavia, Mid-East, etc. is because of different ideologies how is one government (a political solution) possible?
Humanity tried the state religion thing, didn't work too well (the Reformation thing again, you know death, destruction, blood, chaos)
Vj ~ Humanity must first ascertain which is true religion and then put it to work.
I think that religion is a human necessity. One need to believe. Whether it is in oneself or in the truth (whatever it may be) or in a god, it is not our place to decide for that one person.>
Vj ~ It is the place of wisemen to determine what is truth and what is false and on the other hand, it is up to you to accept it or reject it after a careful and impartial examination.
I believe in myself and therefore I am god. I accept the fact that you will condemn me for that.
Vj ~ Why do I have to, when you have already done so? Anyone who calls himself God is not only a fool but mentally retarded.
Any religion that must force its will one people is a poor one. And an insecure one as well. I said religion is a necessity, but I think we might do better off without it.
Vj ~ Above you said it is a necessity now you are saying we might be better off without it. It is fools that are most inconsistent.
That's it. That's my piece. Reply, if you wish. Disect it if you will. Destroy it if you must. But I won't go willingly. I won't fade into the background like tears in rain. I will stand up for my beliefs.
Vj ~ Exactly what causes turmoil - standing up for beliefs - false religions. Truth is truth and the wise never have to stand up for it at any time, because it stands on its own at all times.
Because they are mine. Because they are all I have. Because I CHOOSE.
Vj ~ Am I suppose to be proud of an imbecile?.
Dialogue 28
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Hello vital signs - Tuesday, November 10, 1998
It's obvious you have NOT gone to the basics, I can tell by my web counter. Before making stupid comments on the board, know what your talking about.
Vj ~ What more could you have told me than what I already know of your bible?
If your goal is to lead people away from the Bible, I got some news for
you. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!. Man has tried to get rid of God's word for over
6,000 years, and guess what, its still here and spreading across the world MORE THAN
EVER.
Vj ~ This is not news to me, one look at the pain and misery that has
befallen the world for 6,000 years, even a man with limited intelligence can
tell that it is the result of false dogmas.
Get a life, do something meaningful. Just as talking to you about Jesus is like talking to a brick wall, so is your quest to try and discredit the Bible.
Vj ~ You may not be happy to hear this, but the Bible is doing its own
discrediting. Isn't this the reason why you stand to defend it always?
The Bible has been and found true for 6000 years of recorded history. In the beginning was the Word-the Bible says!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vj ~ What Omnipotent and Omniscient God could be so interested in who
committed adultery, incest and murder? The rubbish that is contained in
that book has degraded God to a mere sex maniac. Where men failed to
impregnate their wives, He willingly stepped in, defying the sanctity of
marriage by having his son born a bastard - out of wedlock. What do Christians know about righteousness when all is forgiven?
Therefore, I for one, feel very comfortable not worrying if I do not have
answers to all the questions now.
Vj ~ Just imagine how comfortable you can be if you knew all the answers? For me now is better than later which may never come.
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"Just as color cannot be perceived by ears, nor sound by eyes; in like manner, the Eternal Supreme Spirit is not perceptible to the senses. He can only be seen by a pure soul through the purity of heart, acquisition of knowledge and the practice of yoga. Just as one cannot reap the advantages of knowledge without acquiring it, likewise the Supreme Spirit cannot be seen without the practice of yoga and gaining the highest knowledge." The Light of Truth
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