Debunking Christianity
Part II

Responses:
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
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Dialogue 21
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Hello Pvaaunle - May 15, 2000
    Rom 1:18-23 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
  1. Vj ~ What kind of heaven is that, when it is not free of �wrath�? A God (Biblical) that is unhappy, enraged, angry and grief-stricken can only render the same to those who follow him. On the other hand, only a God (Vedic) that is all-bliss can render perpetual happiness to His aspirants.

    Note it is an offer, a gift. In order to get the gift you have to take it the same as you take any present that some one gives you. Now if some one gives you a gift do they ask you to work in order to receive it?

  2. Vj ~ No, but it takes an idiot to give a gift for no reason at all. One is rewarded because one is good at what one does (as the base-ball player). When a man works all his life abstaining from alcohol, tobacco, adultery, murder, etc. and acquired knowledge he is deserving of higher rewards than one who didn�t do all those things but simply ask for forgiveness, or accept Christ. Therefore the Biblical god that grants heaven to both of these individuals is indeed a bigger idiot. Even a chancellor of a University would not grant a degree to both a five-year medical student and one who spent five years cutting the grass at the University lawn. Why would an All-wise God do it?

    Prov 9:9-10 9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning. 10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. (KJV)

  3. Vj ~ A God who created one man and one woman leading to incest (cohabitation between brothers and sisters (Cain and his sister) cannot be a god of wisdom and therefore whatever instructions he gave to the mentally infirmed (by incest) cannot lead to wisdom.

    Prov 1:1-7 1 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel; 2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;

  4. Vj ~ These two men in particular were murderers and adulterers, having hundreds of concubines, and going as far as to murder men in order to seduce their wives. One in such state of ignorance can never be called wise much less instructing others to attain wisdom.

    This is my dwelling place where is yours?

  5. Vj ~ Mine is no where inhabited with souls of murderers (Moses, David), adulterers (Abraham, David, Solomon), Lot (incest) etc., thieves, liars, beggars and fools. It is a purely an all-bliss atmosphere of souls that made strenuous individual efforts to attain righteousness. It is a reward justifiably deserving of effort made and not forgiveness.

    The history books are full of the fulfillments of these words of prophecy.

  6. Vj ~ It makes no difference since your revelation itself is also history, breaching the attribute of a Just, merciful and compassionate God. Prophecies mislead the already ignorant. The sole purpose of it is driving fear into the gullible to believe leading them to further pain and misery.

    Hello Pvaaunle - May 17, 2000
    If you actually live your life according to the words you write here, then you truly are the living fulfillment of these scriptures.

  7. Vj ~ And where have I indicated that I have committed adultery (Abraham), incest (Lot) and murder (Moses and his god) to be truly the "living fulfillment" of your scripture?

    Maybe you should read the end results again it might inspire you to get past yourself and get some real truth.

  8. Vj ~ The Bible can only be good to one who is outside of it, not inside. It is, by what is false that truth is ascertained. Reject it and start the process of reasoning, you will be on your way.

    I came from the place you are and I can sympathize with you frustration and the darkness that clouds your mind but it is your personal choice.

  9. Vj ~ Believe me friend, if I were ever in your condition I would pull the trigger.

    Just remember this, the longer you wait the harder it gets.

  10. Vj ~ Why don't you look around, it couldn't be harder than all the Christians that are stricken with cancer, strokes, Parkinson's, MS, etc. from as high as the Pope, Billy Graham, Pastor John Wesley down to their congregation and you too, can expect the same.
Dialogue 22
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Hello Jewelled-Spirit - May 18, 2000
    Vj said: Believe me friend, if I were ever in your condition I would pull the trigger.
    These statements are definitely not cool.
  1. Vj ~ Only if you knew, it is still better than the immense pain and misery yet to come in worshipping a false god. It is the duty of the wise to offend when it is in the interest of one's own good.

    There is no reason to be intentionally cruel in this way.

  2. Vj ~ I am intentionally more good than cruel also but yet you were less concern to comment on it.

    I understand we all disagree on many issues, but personal attacks are uncalled for here.

  3. Vj ~ If you were intelligent as you often declare by your on and off responses, you would have known by now that my sole interest is not to falsely attack the less unfortunate, but to disseminate truth for all. A lifeguard may try in vain to save his victim, but there comes a time when he must act by punching his victim unconscious. It is not a personal vendetta, but it is done in the interest of saving the victim. The same with true religion (truth).

    Please consider how your words may be hurting someone before you make such insensitive remarks.

  4. Vj ~ Believe me the hurt is petty in comparison to what is yet to come for the soul following the path of false religion. And you, my friend, are no better off, since you are more concern about others than yourself. Try to liberate your soul first and then try to save others.

    Hello Jewelled-Spirit - May 19, 2000
    Vj said: It is the duty of the wise to offend when it is in the interest of one's own good.
    I don't see how implying someone should have pulled the trigger is in their best interest.

  5. Vj ~ Very simple, just "see" the "someone" as Ted Bundy. It makes no difference, a lost soul is a lost soul, be it a murderer or a believer of false religion. Sin in any shape or form condemns a soul to pain and misery. Putting Bundy to the electric chair, was also a merciful act, since he didn't live to commit more crimes against innocent people and more so, his own soul.

    Vj said: I was intentionally more good than cruel also but yet you were less concern to comment on it.
    Ordinarily I wouldn't have commented at all. But the comments seemed especially cruel, so I wanted to mention it.

  6. Vj ~ Maligning his/her Bible is also a cruel action and you didn't seem to mind at all if she/he was offended by it. The sad part of it though is that it is even more crueler since you have nothing better to offer him/her or even yourself. You provided a clean plate, which is good, but you gave him/her nothing to put in it.

    Vj said: If you were intelligent as you often declare by your on-off responses, you would have known by now that my sole interest is not to falsely attack the less unfortunate, but to disseminate truth for all. A lifeguard may try in vain to save his victim, but there comes a time when he must act by punching his victim out. It is not a personal physical attack, but it is done in the interest of saving the victim. The same with true religion (truth).
    I understand that.

  7. Vj ~ No you don't! Had you read the Light of Truth and all my forums of discussion perhaps it would have been difficult to ever doubt my sincerity.

    But again, I don't agree that one goes about sharing truth by telling someone they should have killed themselves.

  8. Vj ~ In the case of Ted Bundy, the good of pulling the trigger at sometime earlier in his life, would have been more beneficial to his soul rather than those he lived to murder. If one should kill oneself because of what I said, the weakness lies with the victim, not me. On the other hand, when a soul is elevated by this knowledge, it can be told anything because it is then far above all those weaknesses. This is the state I relish most by my own experience and this is what I propagate for fellow mankind. Now go back to the lifeguard analogy and try to understand.

    Vj said: Believe me the hurt is petty in comparison to what is yet to come for the soul worshipping a false god. And you, my friend, are no better off, since you are more concern about others than yourself. Try to liberate your soul first and then try to save others.
    I wasn't aware that I was trying to save anyone.

  9. Vj ~ And what do you call it when you are 'protecting' one from cruelty (abuse) of any kind?
Dialogue 23
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Hello Jewelled-Spirit - May 20, 2000
    Vj said: Very simple, just "see" the "someone" as Ted Bundy. It makes no difference, a lost soul is a lost soul, be it a murderer or a believer of false religion. Sin in any shape or form condemns a soul to pain and misery.
    JS: I don't believe that quoting from the book s/he believes in and pointing out God's cruelty in a truthful manner is "maligning his/her Bible".
  1. Vj ~ That is your belief, but what of his/her belief? And what makes you think that my intentions are not also truthful?

    JS: So, all sin is the same? There is no difference between believing in the Bible and being a mass murderer? I don't agree.

  2. Vj ~ No, all sins are not the same but believing in the Bible, where the prophets themselves (and even God) were guilty of murder, adultery, incest, etc, leads to greater sins. It is one of the religions where a man can murder, rape, and plunder and ask for forgiveness in the end. What is there to deter an ordinary man from these crimes when prophets can be forgiven for the same? A murderer may kill once, but a Christian is a sinner every day of his/her life until death because of false religion. So it is a grave sin to hold on to a belief without applying good reasoning, especially when she is now shown the way. "The worship of a false god is equal to a 1000 crimes."

    Maligning his/her Bible is also a cruel action and you didn't seem to mind at all if she/he was offended by it.
    Yes, it was offensive, however, it was not an attack on the *person*, but a way of questioning that person's belief system.

  3. Vj ~ Isn't it rather foolish to offend someone when you have nothing else to offer? If you are that sincere why haven't you come to my board and question my belief system also? Who knows, perhaps you may find the answer to my 'cruelty'.

    I would never imply that someone deserves to die or would be better off dead for his/her beliefs.

  4. Vj ~ I don't think you should either, simply because you have nothing else to put in the �clean plate� you have offered.

    Had you read the Light of Truth and all my forums of discussion perhaps it would have been difficult to ever doubt my sincerity.
    I wasn't doubting your sincerity; I was questioning your tactics. And I have read *some* of your site and I am not interested in reading it in depth.

  5. Vj ~ Perhaps if you had, you would have been able to respond to all rebuttals instead of a selected few. Anyway my site is only for those who have the necessary inclinations in seeking the truth.

    As I said, I do understand. There can be understanding without agreement.

  6. Vj ~ It is called tolerance, and it only lasts for short a while because there is nothing truthful about such understanding. It is the way (understanding without agreement) they want to make false religions work also.

    I wasn't aware that I was trying to save anyone.
    And what do you call it when you are 'protecting' one from cruelty?
    Compassion.

  7. Vj ~ Having compassion for ignorance when you yourself are ignorant doesn't go over well. Do not attempt to teach swimming while you are yet learning yourself? Compassion can only be appropriately extended by the wise who unselfishly disseminate true knowledge for the sole interest of saving lost souls, even if it offends, it is for one's own good.
Dialogue 24
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Hello Pvaaunle - May 20, 2000
    Prov 1:20-33 20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:... 26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
  1. Vj ~ Anyone that call him/herself 'wise' in one moment and then laugh and mock in the next is a hypocrite.

    when distress and anguish cometh upon you. 28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer;

  2. Vj ~ What a God? First he grants forgiveness of sins in one moment and in the next will not "answer".

    29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: 30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.

  3. Vj ~ No wonder they "despised" this God, he is two-faced.

    33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil. (KJV)

  4. Vj ~ Oh what philosophy! The Pope and Billy Graham have all their lives "hearkeneth" to this God, and all they have got to show for it, is the pain of prostate cancer and Parkinson's disease, not to mention they are hard of hearing also.

    Jewelled, He could possibly believe that he has something to offer because of the confusion of mind that comes from His/Her attitude towards The One And Only God.

  5. Vj ~ I can't even believe that you are this stupid. Haven't you noticed that Jewelled doesn't share the same sentiment towards your God?

    VJ is truly living the words written in the Bible. The words written in these posts bear testimony to that.

  6. Vj ~ Perhaps, it would be more helpful if you could find some "words" that bear testimony to your own stupidity.

    I have been praying for VJ every since I read these posts.

  7. Vj ~ If you have so much faith in your prayer why not ask for the winning numbers of a state lottery, then you could feed millions while converting them, instead of wasting it on two people here.

    I also pray that God will give me some words that will cause a flicker of light to break thru and start a process.

  8. Vj ~ I thought all the words are already in the Bible, I didn't know your God spontaneously give you new commands. Nothing better to do I guess.

    From now on I will include you in that last request.

  9. Vj ~ From where I am standing I think the Pope and Billy Graham are more in need of it.

    Maybe if enough of us seek God for a way to get the light in we can see something miraculous happen.

  10. Vj ~ It would truly be a miracle if a fool can be saved but never can a man of true wisdom become a Christian or bluntly put - the worship of a thug in the sky.

    Hello Jewelled Spirit - May 21, 2000
    JS: I don't believe that quoting from the book s/he believes in and pointing out God's cruelty in a truthful manner is "maligning his/her Bible". Vj: That is your belief, but what of his/her belief? And what makes you think that my intentions are not also truthful?
    Yes, that is my belief. Isn't that what we are all talking about here, our *beliefs*?

  11. Vj ~ Yes, that is what we are all talking about here. You have your way, she/he has him/her way and so am I. My question is why should you object to mine when you don't know what good can come out of it?

    I have not implied that your intentions are not truthful, I was merely explaining my own actions - not yours

  12. Vj ~ In this case, since it is not untruthful, shouldn't you be at least silent or if smart enough, be praising my method rather than condemning it?

    Vj ~No, all sins are not the same but believing in the Bible, where the prophets themselves (and even God) were guilty of murder, adultery, incest, etc, leads to greater sins. It is one of the religions where a man can murder, rape, and plunder and ask for forgiveness in the end. What is there to deter an ordinary man from these crimes when prophets can be forgiven for the same?
    We have no argument here.

  13. Vj ~ Very good, now should you decide to do further investigations of this knowledge, you will find that we won't have any argument at all, because the truth is one. Won't you like that, where everyone's reasoning can be in harmony with each other?

    Vj ~ Isn't it rather foolish to offend someone when you have nothing else to offer?
    I do not need all the answers to know what is false.

  14. Vj ~ So why is the �cleaned plate� you offered still empty? You are indeed fortunate not to be brainwashed like the others, but why quit there?

    For example, I don't know the final value of pi, but i know that it is *not* the color blue.

  15. Vj ~ Whatever you mean by this, the clean plate you offered is still empty.

    If you are that sincere why haven't you come to my board and question my belief system also? Who knows, perhaps you may find the answer to my 'cruelty'.
    Again, I know the answer to your 'cruelty' - you intend to shock and offend him/her into seeing that s/he is wrong and you are right.

  16. Vj ~ Isn't that what good doctors do when they must declare the heart-breaking news to their patients in the time of a serious illness?

    My whole point was that I find some of these tactics distasteful and pointless.

  17. Vj ~ The shock treatment of painful surgery is also painful and cruel but if successful it is for the patients own good, isn't it?

    You did not succeed in making him/her see the "truth", therefore your cruelty was in vain.

  18. Vj ~ Not all doctors succeed in their bid to save lives either. But it can be too early to ascertain so, who knows what may occur later. But more importantly, the lesson here should prove more valuable to you since you are already out of clutches of brainwashing.

    JS: And I have read *some* of your site and I am not interested in reading it in depth.
    Perhaps if you had, you would have been able to respond to all my rebuttals instead of a selected few. Anyway, my site is only for those who have the necessary inclinations in seeking the truth.
    If I choose not to respond to every comment, it is most likely because I have nothing to say on that topic or I have already stated my opinion and prefer not to repeat myself.

  19. Vj ~ If you had all the answers you would have responded, whether it be positive or negative, it is actually the joy of knowing all the answers. And do you know of anyone who would not want to know all the answers? Haven't you noticed yet, that I haven't missed any?

    I do not have the necessary inclinations to seek *your* truth, you are right.

  20. Vj ~ So how does that make you better than the Christians you criticize? Or for that matter, what is the source of your truth that qualifies it to criticize my method of propagating truth? If it is your own, it is not good enough, so lie low and leave the Christians alone, until you find the true source.

    JS: There can be understanding without agreement.
    Vj ~ It is called tolerance, and it only lasts for short while because there is nothing truthful about such understanding. It is the way (understanding without agreement) they want to make false religions work also.
    That is not my definition of tolerance.

  21. Vj ~ Well if you have a better definition why not spell it out? Or do you think a doctor should not try his/her best to save a life at the risk of inflicting more pain? We could never have the same definition anyways since you lack a source knowledge.

    Vj ~ Having compassion for ignorance when you yourself are ignorant doesn't go over well. Do not attempt to teach swimming while you are yet learning yourself? Compassion can only be appropriately extended by the wise who unselfishly disseminate true knowledge for the sole interest of saving lost souls, even if it must offend, it is for their own good.
    So, the 'unwise' (by your definition) should not extend kindness and compassion?

  22. Vj ~ They can, but what good is it when they don't know whether they too are in the same hell hole? One fool showing compassion for another does no good to either soul. "Kindness (mercy) and compassion" are attributes of wisdom because only through wisdom freedom or perpetual happiness can be attained.

    Besides, bludgeoning people with *salvation* isn't my idea of compassion

  23. Vj ~ Maybe not to you, but how would you know if you don't have all the answers?
Dialogue 25
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Hello Jewelled-Spirit - May 22, 2000
    Vijai, it is clear to me that you do not wish to understand my words, but instead twist them for your own purposes.
  1. Vj ~ If I should choose to understand your words, that would leave me with a clean plate but nothing to put in it.

    I have no interest in this kind of back and forth -

  2. Vj ~ In other words, you are saying that you have no interest in a constructive dialogue.

    where one is expressing their opinion as opinion and the other is expressing their opinion as *fact*

  3. Vj ~ When it is a fact, it is backed up with a genuine source of knowledge that is in harmony with reasoning, science and in conformity with natural laws. On the other hand, if you do not have such a source, then we can only conclude your opinions to be baseless.

    you are no better than the Christians you criticize.

  4. Vj ~ Perhaps, it is necessary for you to work on your intellect since you can�t even tell the difference.

    I certainly don't think a doctor would inform a patient of serious illness by telling them they should have killed themselves. Your analogy is ridiculous.

  5. Vj ~ Heard of euthunasia (mercy killing)? It simply means death before continuous pain.

    Say what you like; call me what you will - I will no longer waste my time with this.

  6. Vj ~ It is you who have decided what you are - starting something you haven't the courage to finish. Anyway, my friend, thank you for the short dialogue, if even it was of no benefit to you, feel good, that I have benefited from it and perhaps other intelligent souls may too someday.

    Hello AslansWord - May 22, 2000
    SINGH......When a philosophy is built on a faulty base, the conclusion will also be faulty...

  7. Vj ~ So true, and all you have to do now is show me where mine is "faulty" and yours are not.

    There in lies your problem.

  8. Vj ~ How could a "problem" exist when you know nothing of my philosophy?

    Bad news friend...God isn't a baseball club manager, He's God.....

  9. Vj ~ I would choose " a baseball club manager" over your God any day since the former rewards his players for just effort. The best player is rewarded well because he is good and the lazy players with little or effort all get booted out, it is the only way the game or any business can be successful.

    Further SINGH, the one who thinks himself wise, isn't....

  10. Vj ~ Really! Then you would have been wiser to know who is wise and who isn't since there is no way a fool can conclude who is or isn't.

    The wise man knows he isnt wise but knows much is left to be learned...

  11. Vj ~ If there is much "left to be learned" then it is obvious that the man is not wise as yet and is still a fool.

    The man who deceives himself into believing that he wise is the ultimate fool.....

  12. Vj ~ And so far this description fits you very well since it looks like a fool you are trying to figure out who is a wise man.

    Rather like a man when being asked, "are you a humble man" responds yes, for a man who is truly humble can only reply no...

  13. Vj ~ First of all, it will be a fool who would ask such a question, because if the questioner is wise he would already know who is humble.

    For as scripture says, "As a dog returns to his own vomit, so a fool returns to his own folly"...

  14. Vj ~ Have you found yours delicious so far?

    The fool would seem to be you SINGH and your folly seems most attractive to you...

  15. Vj ~ Well after the above responses I will let the intelligent be the judge who the fool is.

    Incidentally SINGH, I've read several of your egocentric responses to others, and evidence is strong that you indeed lack the wisdom you so proudly claim...

  16. Vj ~ Then you must be familiar with all wisdom to know of what I am lacking. You have declared evidence from what I have written, but should it not be the other way round, from what you have written?

    Rather you have both feet planted firmly in mid air......... Blessings, Aslan

  17. Vj ~ It would have been nice if yours were there too, it seems it is those who have theirs well planted on the ground that is quick to disappear from this board.

    Oh and SINGH?.......Christian isn't spelled doormat and your own stupidity requires no proof....It stands on it's own merit quite nicely..... Aslan

  18. Vj ~ If merits were good enough to prove stupidity or intelligence why do we need the Bible or Christ?

    PS
    JEWELLED.....I've also read several of your postings.... they made great sense and are written with a spirit of intelligence and compassion.....

  19. Vj ~ Truly reminiscent of a fool, you didn't even read further down what JS wrote contradicting the Bible and you are already praising his intelligence.

    The problem is that it's as though you've been playing violin to a water buffalo....The music may be beautiful but the buffalo simply can't understand. Asian

  20. Vj ~ Again a true musician is a lover of music, whether a fool like you or a buffalo understands it or not, the musician will always love his/her music because it is coming from the dept of the soul. The same with a wise man, wisdom is perpetual happiness whether a fool understands it or not, it does not interrupt his blissful state.
Dialogue 26
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Hello AslansWord - May 23, 2000
    Why SINGH.....You're proof positive that there's nothing more frightening than ignorance in action...
  1. Vj ~ Is that why you make a general statement instead of responding to my rational rebuttals in their right order? If you don't know how to go about it, why not read some of JS posts, maybe he can teach you something in this respect.

    Your philosophy begins with proclaiming no entity beyond yourself...That of course is the faulty base...

  2. Vj ~ Why, you missed the proclamation of evil (Satan), disobedience (Adam & Eve), incest (their children), jealousy and murder (Cain & Abel) and adultery (Abraham) of a beginning?

    And if you indeed worship yourself and assume creation is untrue, then all you worship is a grown up germ that was spawned some years past in a slime pit...

  3. Vj ~ It is more rational to believe creation spawned out from a germ rather than to believe that the inconsiderate and foolish god of the Bible created it from nothing.

    As one who stands apart from either being a fool or foolish enough to refer to himself as wise, I can indeed distinguish between the two SING, and evidence is strong that my initial assessment of you is correct...

  4. Vj ~ And my initial assessment that only one wiser, and not a fool, can determine who is wise, still stands

    Your postings are steeped in sarcasm, satiated in ego and void of substance...

  5. Vj ~ On the other hand, it could be the reflection of your own ego, which is often very normal of an idiot who has made no attempt whatever to refute my faith.

    Quite a feat for one who proclaims himself "wise"....

  6. Vj ~ It seems we are both geniuses since it is also quite a feat for a fool to proclaim who is or isn't wise.

    The unelect will never know God or foster any belief and he will forever wander through a spiritual thicket.....It's in scripture SINGH, but to one of the possible unelect, that's of no value but it may well explain your posturing.....

  7. Vj ~ If you are referring to your scripture, you are in serious trouble, how do you explain the posturing of a God who is frustrated and fill with anger that he at times has to intervene to murder innocent people?

    There are many exactly like you SINGH and to me, you and all like you are simply angry little children playing grown up yet lacking the intellect or emotional maturity to pull it off.....

  8. Vj ~ Even God has no cure for a fool, so don't expect wise men to pull it off.

    The amount of intelligence required to achieve ignorance can be immense when the need for illusion is deep....Yours is deep indeed,

  9. Vj ~ I have no doubt you are already an established idiot since I can't see how intelligence is required to achieve ignorance.

    and SINGH:.. Blather all you please, you are simply not not an intellectual, emotional nor spiritual peer...

  10. Vj ~ How would an idiot know who is an intellectual?

    You of course have that potential but it's certainly not manifest in anything you've yet posted, nor does it seem near......

  11. Vj I know, but I could be at my potential if I can commit adultery, incest and murder like your prophets though. ~

    And when I tell the truth SINGH, it's not so much for the sake of convincing those who don't know it as it is for the sake of defending those who do.....

  12. Vj ~ What truth can there be in one fool convincing or defending many fools?

    LOL, And please note...I don't require reposting your blatherings to address them as you seem to have need of doing...I knew what they would say even before they were written......

  13. Vj ~ Really, then why do you require to post if you know before what will be written? Aren't you satisfied being an idiot?

    I never take issue with anyone who feels as though the Bible has contradictions SINGH.....

  14. Vj ~ I know not of any idiot who would want to.

    Why is it that I assumed that Jewelled was female and you automatically assumed male?...

  15. Vj ~ Probably, like your lustful prophets (Abraham, David, and Solomon, you were thinking adultery.

    The fact that such a person acknowledges its existence is a very good beginning.....

  16. Vj ~ Perhaps, but incest does not seem to be a good beginning for you (mentally infirmed) or your God, since a sister had no choice but to have sexual relations with her brother (Cain).

    Jewelled is of a good and loving spirit, and from that only good can come...

  17. Vj ~ So are the Pope and Billy Graham but yet they are suffering from the painful diseases of Parkinson's, cancer, etc. Some reward for being good and loving!

    Quite a contrast with you from which venom spews...

  18. Vj ~ So true because in the eyes of a fool truth will always be "venom".

    By the way SINGH..you may well want to stop your study of philosophy...It's possible that in doing that you may lose some of your anger.......

  19. Vj ~ Then I am still better off since, unlike your god, I am yet to maimed and murder in anger.

    For philosophy is a study that permits one to be unhappy a bit more intelligently....

  20. Vj ~ A fool gets to heaven with or without intelligence, so why would he need it to be happy or unhappy?
Dialogue 27
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Hello Jewelled Spirit - May 23, 2000
    Vj ~ Truly reminiscent of a fool, you didn't even read further down what JS wrote contradicting the Bible and you are already praising his intelligence.
    And what is a person who automatically assumes I am male?
  1. Vj ~ Either a male chauvinist or an elevated soul void of lustful thinking. You be the judge.

    Funny, I was thinking "mistaken".

  2. Vj ~ Never crossed my mind.

    Out of curiosity, what does lust have to do with assuming someone's gender?

  3. Vj ~ Souls can be damned because of it. It is the daily pursuit of the ignorant (Christians) to lust wherever and whenever they can, like their lustful prophets, since such sins are easily forgiven.

    I assumed you were male, not because I had lustful thoughts, but because of your written mannerisms and thought processes.

  4. Vj ~ Good for you, then you must at least know that I was not at all curious of your gender. As a matter of fact, I am not the one who brought it up. Furthermore, I may apt to think that you, maybe here for that reason also, since you are now engaged with perhaps a lustful Christian who is more concern with gender, than anything else good that I have discussed here. The control of the mind by the practice of Yoga is not normally concerned with gender but the discussion of the most abstruse of all science of God.

    Hello AslansWord - May 24, 2000< br> SINGH.....It's still laughable that you're unable to "respond" to anything without first reposting that which you "respond" to....

  5. Vj ~ I have to repost it, how else can others learn from your ignorance?

    Far more laughable is you actually have convinced yourself that you're responding at all..

  6. Vj ~ And even more laughable is the belief that Christians can be forgiven for the most horrible crimes on this planet and be sitting next to God for all eternity.

    I submit that for you to assume Jewelled was a man is then proof positive that your 'mind" was clearly on homosexuality.....

  7. Vj ~ Why would a homosexual have to worry when there is such a thing as redemption?

    I do however thank you for these exchanges because you give me great cause for gratitude to God...

  8. Vj ~ If he can be called god at all. If the millions he innocently murdered during the flood, the firstborn of Egypt, the children of Sodom and 70,000 of Israel is the gratitude you speak of, then you are in serious trouble.

    Gratitude that but for His grace I might well be you and for that I'm greatly indebted to you...

  9. Vj ~ It is such a pity that an idiot is drowning and beckoning to his god for help, while refusing the life-line I am throwing him. My guess is, an idiot deserves no better.

    Hello AslansWord - May 24, 2000
    SINGH....Along with your other "misunderstands", you've now added the brand new dimension of confusing the thanking of God with the requesting of help from Him....

  10. Vj ~ I am of the impression that gratitude is best shown after being helped. < p> How very consistent you are, and I believe you erred when you typed yoga to JEWELLED...
  11. Vj ~ If it is the same belief you apply to your religion, you are indeed in a heap of mess.

    I'm positive you meant Yogi.....That makes far more sense and fits you perfectly....

  12. Vj ~ Only when one completes the practice of Yoga one becomes a Yogi. Thank you for the compliment but I am not there yet.

    Remember that recycling now.

  13. Vj ~ Maybe you can help me with my recycling - every time I try to recycle ignorance I come up with Christianity.
Dialogue 28
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Hello Jewelled Spirit - May 24, 2000
    Vj ~ Either a male chauvinist or an elevated soul void of lustful thinking. You be the judge.
    JS: Funny, I was thinking "mistaken".
    Vj ~ Never crossed my mind.
    I am not surprised - for if a "fool" like me can recognize your mistakes, then perhaps you are not as wise as you imagine.
  1. Vj ~ I am surprised that a "fool" like you who can't use your proper name, can question one who is wise enough to use one's proper name. It is too bad that you are too ignorant not know where the fault lies.

    The truth is, you *were* mistaken. You made an incorrect assumption about me - which, by itself means very little, but means much given the circumstances.

  2. Vj ~ One would think you were ready to make out with me but were disappointed because I couldn't make up my mind whether you were a man or a woman.

    One who considers himself wise ought to be able to admit being wrong, don't you think?

  3. Vj ~ I could care less what the circumstances were, for it has nothing to with the dissemination of true knowledge unless you feel a woman is inferior in intellect and should be approached in a different manner.

    It also stands to reason, if you are wrong in one area, you are likely to be wrong in others as well. Something to consider, perhaps?

  4. Vj ~ Something you can consider too, perhaps I am wrong not to diagnose you earlier as a complete fool since you are more interested in gender recognition than acquiring knowledge.

    JS: Out of curiosity, what does lust have to do with assuming someone's gender?
    Vj ~ Souls can be damned because of it. It is the daily pursuit of the ignorant (Christians) to lust wherever and whenever they can, like their lustful prophets, since such sins are easily forgiven.
    That doesn't answer my question.

  5. Vj ~ How can you be certain it is the answer you have the problem with and not your ego since you already chose to end this dialogue?

    JS: I assumed you were male, not because I had lustful thoughts [snipped due to peaceful protest].
    Vj ~ Good for you, then you must at least know that I was not at all curious of your gender. As a matter of fact, I am not the one who brought it up.
    Actually, you *did* bring it up when you referred to me as "he".

  6. Vj ~ I also brought up a lot of other things pertaining to good reasoning that can be of immense benefit to the soul, but as most fools would, you didn't care much to prolong the discussion.

    And given that you've been so careful not to assign a gender to Pvaaunle (with the use of him/her, his/her pronouns), I found it interesting (and noteworthy, obviously) that you omitted that courtesy with me.

  7. Vj ~ Or perhaps, I did it because I know how rebellious a fool can be, thinking that you were above that.

    Vj ~ Furthermore, I may apt to think that you, maybe here for that reason also, since you are now engaged with perhaps a lustful Christian who is more concern with gender, than anything else good that I have discussed here.
    Vijai, truly, I have never seen another person so obviously intent on twisting other people's words to suit his own philosophy.

  8. Vj ~ Since you yourself lack true philosophy how would you know what is twisted or not?

    Gender would be a non-issue at this point had you admitted your wrong assumption and let it go at that.

  9. Vj ~ And where have I indicated that I am ever bothered by an issue or a non-issue?

    Instead, your prideful denial and accusations of lust and adultery have made something significant out of the trivial.

  10. Vj ~ Speaking of the Bible of course! Any issue that becomes a weapon to destroy ignorance is deemed dutiful to the wise, in spite of whom it offends. You can decide where you belong.

    Through the control of the mind by the practice of Yoga one is not normally a concern of gender but the discussion of the most abstruse of all science of God.
    Gender means nothing to you, yet you assigned me one. Why is that? Why didn't you stick with the he/she, him/her, his/her references?

  11. Vj ~ It makes it so much easier for me to recognize a fool, especially in a pretence of good reasoning, when one comes along. Besides a "spirit" however jeweled, is subtle and is not confined or restricted to a particular gender.

    You *must* see, that all your wishy-washy answers and fact-twisting aren't dimming the light on your folly.

  12. Vj ~ Sounds more like the fox discounting the grape he can't reach as sour. My answers as "wishy-washy" as they may sound truly stand the test of times. It is fools who depart from them in a hurry.
Dialogue 29
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Hello AslansWord - May 25, 2000
    SINGH.....It's actually beyond laughable how you believe these elementary school blurbs you post are actually responses of "wisdom" and that they contain a rapier like wit about them....
  1. Vj ~ You should feel at home then, laughing even louder, since the Bible (Abraham, Lot, David, Solomon) is riddled with immoral actions that are no less rapier-like.

    More laughable yet is that you wrap a stolen towel from a Days Inn about your head, name yourself Vijai and delude yourself into thinking that your a yoga...

  2. Vj ~ Yogi is the word you are looking for and it was you who confer that on me even though I have tried to explain, without any success, that I not there yet.

    If you could just sit away from yourself and read what you post SINGH, you'd feel a thousand times the personal humiliation and embarrassment I vicarious feel for you....

  3. Vj ~ Well even if a few lines indicate it to be so, I can only imagine how tremendously greater your "vicarious feel" is affected when reading of the lustful sex-maniac prophets of your Bible, unless you are helplessly lustful and hope to gain salvation by it.

    My gratitude to God grows with each of your posts.....

  4. Vj ~ Hoping that you too can be forgiven for adultery, incest and murder if it comes to all that. Not bad at all - who in their right mind would not seek such gratitude?

    Jewelled is chewing you up and spitting you out intellectually....LOL,

  5. Vj ~ Wonderful, then there would be no need for either of you to leave in hurry.

    You're one piece of work my friend...

  6. Vj ~ Isn't that what becomes priceless sooner, or if not, later?

    Hello Jewelled-Spirit - May 25, 2000
    Vijai, are you on medication?

  7. Vj ~ Yes, and thisis it.

    That last post was disturbing.

  8. Vj ~ It clearly shows that if a patient (fool) has no interest in seeking treatment, the illness (pain) can become unbearable and perhaps incurable.

    I had thought you above such insanity.

  9. Vj ~ I am sorry that you have wasted a whole thought, but "such insanity" lies in ignorance but you were too busy warning me of embarrassing myself. Seek true knowledge, it is the freedom from all inequities.

    My real name, by the way, would not have helped to determine my gender, as it is as androgenous as you claim "Jewelled-Spirit" is.

  10. Vj ~ Your real name won't make you wiser either, and it is obvious that it was never my intention to use a name or gender for that purpose.

    All you have to do to see my name, gender, and other information is click on my nickname... simple as that.

  11. Vj ~ Why? It hasn't bothered me a bit the way this conversation turned out. Since you are the one who is affected by it, hopefully, you will be more cautious in the future, keeping in mind from now on, that someone wise may come your way again. Now let's get back to true knowledge Jess, that is if you are not too weak to jump the hurdles of "disturbing".
Dialogue 30
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Hello AslansWord - May 25, 2000
    JEWELLED.....Being a mental health professional and holding the designation of LCSW, I can tell you with some great assurance that SINGH is coming from an extremely skewed sense of reality...
  1. Vj ~ Don't you want to know why you were relegated to helping the mentally retarded? You may want to think it is a blessing, but ask yourself why they weren't blessed with a working intellect in the first place. What I am saying, actually they are similar to those of false dogmas - static.

    When a focus is so clearly placed on gender, rest assured that some dysfunctional dynamic is at work within.....

  2. Vj ~ And yet you hold faith in a God that has elevated men to prophethood with similar or worst symptoms of "dysfunctional dynamic"?

    Such a person uses any excuse from what began as a spiritual topic, to segway into a sexualized exchange in a vain attempt to quench the needs of that dynamic......

  3. Vj ~ That still leaves me in a far better position than the God (of the Bible) you worship, since he reduced men to commit incest, not to mentioned the injustices of granting forgiveness to those who have committed horrible crimes against humanity.

    And when a perfectly adequate term such as nude has been replaced by the term "stripped naked", the person using that term is without question harboring deep anger at their perceived "antagonist"...

  4. Vj ~ So when doctors cut into their patients' body they are harboring deep anger at their perceived "antagonist" by mutilation?

    Finally when lust becomes the consuming center of exchanges and the term lust is cast about in an accusatory manner against so many others and excludes self, the picture becomes complete.....

  5. Vj ~ I couldn't agree more especially when this diagnosis perfectly fits Abraham (seducing his house-maid), Lot (impregnating his daughters), David, Solomon (numerous concubines) and more specifically your God who impregnate an innocent virgin. What shameful actions and yet as a mental health professional you failed to investigate the mental state of these disgustingly putrid characters.

    That of a individual who harbors rage against a particular gender and is sufficiently cognizant of that fact that the focal point of their exchanges becomes their personal inner driving force...

  6. Vj ~ Meaning that as long as they are prodigies of the Bible, there can be exceptions.

    That they point an incriminating finger at other groups or individuals they also hate and envy most....

  7. Vj ~ Instead of shooting from the hip, why not take good aim and then fire. It is the attribute of wisdom to despise ignorance in any shape or form even at the cost of offending fools.

    Never realizing that the finger points back to self....

  8. Vj ~ In this case there is no shortage of finger-pointing in the Bible. Furthermore, it is because of finger-pointing, Christians are so divided as to the true interpretation of the Bible.

    The components required to come to such a conclusion exist within SINGH...

  9. Vj ~ It may not be such a bad thing then since men had become prophets in spite of it or even worse.

    Those components are the rage which is self evident in his venomous postings....

  10. Vj ~ What is venomous to a fool is wisdom for the wise. Obviously, it is those who are affected by it that need to seek a cure.

    The need to draw unhealthy distinctions between genders..

  11. Vj ~ Had your God and prophets not busy doing that, some good could have probably come out of the religion of the Bible.

    The obsession with lust, and the drive to accuse others that he hates and envies most, (IE,Christians and the like), of the very thing he knows is his own personal thorn.....

  12. Vj ~ If "the obsession of lust" brought your prophets salvation, I see no "thorn" for me.

    Attempts at rational exchanges on such a topic would only fan his own needs and in reality, bring him a sense of a deep needed satisfaction..........

  13. Vj ~ Very true, since the wise can draw nectar (wisdom) from poison (a fool).

    Namaste

  14. Vj ~ I doubt you know what it really means when you are solely in defense of ignorance.
Dialogue 31
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Hello Jewelled-Spirit - May 25, 2000
    e.e. cummings said:
    "The eyes of my eyes are opened." That is how I feel now.
  1. Vj ~ How selfish, not even caring a blink for the blind.

    Vijai, once I thought you capable of contributing intellectual thought,

  2. Vj ~ Certainly not the impression I got when you were ready to abandon this board.

    but you seem to have no recourse than to point the finger at others with false accusations and insults.

  3. Vj ~ Wherever there are false accusations bring it out so that I can defend it and as I have explained many times before if there are insults, it is only meant for one's own good.

    Frankly, you must be a mental contortionist to believe what you've stated here.

  4. Vj ~ And frankly speaking, a wise man is always a "mental contortionist" in the eyes of a fool. If you doubt this statement, then you must define who is wise.

    To me, there is none more wretched than one who cannot admit he is wrong and stops at nothing to twist the truth to suit his own prideful denial.

  5. Vj ~ Why should that bother me, when it is coming from one intellectually inferior to me in wisdom? I don't see how the discussion of gender portrays the most abstruse science of an Almighty Supreme God.

    It is laughable that you've tried to transfer your *wrongness* onto me.

  6. Vj ~ Is it I who have named you "Jewelled Spirit" leaving others to debate whether you are a he or a she?

    Maybe it's time to take some responsibility and grow up.

  7. Vj ~ I have done that since I was given a name, I used it with pride, courage, and dignity ever since. Furthermore, I have no need to spice it up with "jeweled" or "spirit" to entice a discussion on whether I am a man or a woman to make me feel intellectually good. Besides if one assumes me to be female, I could care less but will continue the dialogue guided by my true nature of disseminating divine knowledge.

    I am tired of this ridiculous conversation. It's the same boring, irrelevant garbage repeated over and over and over...

  8. Vj ~ Makes perfect sense, but why am I the only one enjoying these discussions - true to my earlier statement that only "the wise can draw wisdom from a fool"?

    Besides that, you are a sore loser - and I find that trait highly repulsive.

  9. Vj ~ And what wise men aren't a "sore loser" to those totally immersed in ignorance? Strive for this wisdom and not even mere words can disturb the peace and tranquility attained by it.

    So, unless you have something new and constructive to say, I doubt very much I'll be responsive to your posts in the near future.

  10. Vj ~ Since these are not the kind of arguments you put up with every day, it must be something new. As for it being constructive, that would depend on how much desire a fool has in elevating him/herself.

    Hello AslansWord - May 25, 2000
    SINGH...See Jewelled�s response for my own...

  11. Vj ~ Some professional, leaving it for someone else to do your job.

    I agree

  12. Vj ~ How can you agree, when both of you are far apart on your belief? What is happiness (an agreement) today when the other days can bring the opposite (false dogmas)? It is the way fools put up with life but when the thoughts of wise men are in harmony with each other there are absolutely no disagreements (uninterrupted peace).

    Hello AsiansWord - May 25, 2000
    Interests � God and family........Which includes our pets.

  13. Vj ~ And what about the lack of remorse for the innocent ones you and family eat with your god�s blessings.

    By the grace of God I am what I am.

  14. Vj ~ Not to mention how close he could have been to be all-perfect, just, merciful and compassionate had he extended the same grace (kindness) to the mentally retarded.

    Hello AslansWord - May 26, 2000
    SINGH....The disagreements that two who disagree in a particular area possess, are easily transcended when the common area of agreement is sufficiently strong enough to overcome their areas of disagreement and draw them for a particular time, into accord on the one area of agreement they have agreed to agree upon...

  15. Vj ~ An excellent idea, but how do you apply it to your mentally retarded patients?

    That friend SINGH is that you are a child with a less than median intellect who finds amusement in your own meaningless nonsense......

  16. Vj ~ Thank you for the compliment since a child is purity and innocence.

    Sorry towel-head, I Can't waste more time with children...

  17. Vj ~ Quite the opposite with me, I spend most of my day around children (purity and innocence). The power of wisdom is best demonstrated by love and humility. It is the ignorant who brays it out loud without any action.
Dialogue 32
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Hello Pvaaunl - May 26, 2000
    I just got through reading some of the messages and it is so sad to think that someone who is so afraid of the truth will expound so much energy trying to make anyone who has found the truth look foolish.
  1. Vj ~ On the contrary, one who has found the truth can never look foolish.

    You may think that when people quit communicating you have won the argument but you are only kidding yourself.

  2. Vj ~ The argument can only be won when the truth is known by reasoning guided by the correct knowledge and in conformity with natural laws.

    Every time one quits the discourse you have lost another possibility of finding God. That�s really sad.

  3. Vj ~ Very good, which means you haven't found God either, and if you haven't, it is obvious you don't know what truth is.

    Hello Jewelled Spirit - May 26, 2000
    A few words on Wisdom from the Tao:

  4. Vj ~ It is enough to qualify him to be a bigger fool than those who follow him.

    -- Tao 33 -- It is wisdom to know others; It is *enlightenment* to know one's self.

  5. Vj ~ Easier said than done. Isn't this ignorance to its highest? What makes one wise? If this question is not first answered what benefit is there in prattling along about wisdom? The first step to becoming wise is establishing a source knowledge, without it then any source can make us wise, and this is quite impossible.

    The Wise Man, therefore, while he is alive, Will never make a show of being great: And this is how his greatness is achieved.

  6. Vj ~ Very true, but who is best qualified to confer greatness on a wise man - a fool? Muhammad, Christ, Buddha, Krishna, Tao, Abraham, etc. whose teachings oppose each other, all have a huge following - are all these followers wise themselves to confer greatness on their respective 'wise' prophets? Obviously not, then why so many wise men when one could do the job after all wisdom is wisdom. Let's be frank, how can a wise man be great in this age when there are no wise people, but fools, to recognize him as such.

    -- Tao 38 -- A man of highest virtue Will not display it as his own; His virtue is then real..High virtue is at rest; It knows no need to act.

  7. Vj ~If he cannot display it as his own, how can he teach by example? How can the inferior intellect ever grasp his real virtue without him ever displaying it? We have seen how heroes (war, movies, sports) are revered by the display of their own courageous efforts. Why is it not the same for the wise?

    -- Tao 56 -- Those who know do not talk And talkers do not know.

  8. Vj ~ Then one mute is the wisest, simply because they cannot talk and no one knows what they know. If those who know don't talk how would others learn? Your school could be no different from mine - it was the teachers that talked most, and if they didn't know, how did we learn?

    -- Tao 66 -- The world will gladly help along The *Wise Man* and will bear no grudge.

  9. Vj ~ It is the "wise man" that can help the world and not the world the "wise man", while it is the world that will continue to bear grudges without help from a "wise man".

    -- Tao 71 -- To know that you are *ignorant* is best; To know what you do not, is a *disease*.

  10. Vj ~ And isn't being ignorant still a disease whether you know it or not? Besides, how can one ignorant ever knows he/she is ignorant if it is not the job of the wise to let them know?

    Food for thought for those who call themselves *wise*.

  11. Vj ~ Sounds more like food for thought for one who talks, with the exception of Tao who "do not know".

    � Sorry towelhead, I Can't waste more time with children..�.
    Js:Whoa Nellie! Did you come from the Bob Enyart School of Arguing? Let's not stoop to Vijai's habit of dishing out petty insults or you will be looking at a serious loss of points in my cool people book.

  12. Vj ~ Never heard of "stoop to conquer"? Wise men are far above insults - look after yourself first, then you too, like them, can help others.
Dialogue 33
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Hello AslansWord -
    JEWELLED.....This is my final posting in this particular topic area, as it's a wasteland which knows no direction.....
  1. Vj ~ And may you know that the mentally retarded is �a wasteland which knows no direction" and yet you pursue it - greed for money perhaps? Making life less uncomfortable for the mentally retarded is a sin if you don�t know the cause of such pain.

    Not surprising for it's SINGS creation..

  2. Vj ~ Far better creation than being blessed as the professional king of the mentally retarded.

    JEWELLED, be aware that this entity "PVAAUNLE" and SINGH are one and the same.... He added an additional screen name to support the illusion that he has imaginary agreement with him....

  3. Vj ~ Now he has become a paranoid professional. Better think of visiting your psychiatrist soon!

    How do I know this? The same way I knew what Namaste means and the way I have knowledge of the Wheel of Life and Mesopotomia and seasons and handfesting and scents and hearths and crafts.....

  4. Vj ~ Are you sure you are not the mentally retarded? Doesn't sound at all like a mental heath professional.

    After all everyone came from somewhere..

  5. Vj ~ Thanks, I didn't �know� that.

    By the way the term "Towelhead" refers not to the individual SINGH, but rather to the unearned title yoga he gives himself...

  6. Vj ~ Twisting without wisdom is so artificial. It makes one a hypocrite indeed, trying to help the sane when you are trained to help the insane.

    Hello Pvaaunle - May 28, 2000
    Prov 8:1-36 CHAPTER 8 1 Doth not wisdom cry?

  7. Vj ~ Wisdom cannot cry, it was perhaps the fool who said it and the idiot that wrote it.

    Hello RavenWick - May 29, 2000
    Only a true fool would have a mind set that would conceive such a fool's question.

  8. Vj ~ Maybe true, but how would a fool know if he leaves before the question is answered.

    The fact that it was even asked is evidence of the foolish mind behind it.

  9. Vj ~ And typical of a fool who need not ask but gets into heaven.

    Waste any response you choose, I'll not be visiting back to view it.

  10. Vj ~ I guess I am correct - you won't be back because as a fool you know you can fool God.

    I prefer exchanges with those possessing at least some intellect

  11. Vj ~ Why is "some intellect" even necessary when a fool doesn't need any to fool God?

    Hello Pvaaunle - May 29, 2000
    2 Tim 3:16-17 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God,

  12. Vj ~ All scriptures eh! So why did the gentiles abandon Judaism for Christianity? And here is what another scripture (Q�uran) with more �inspiration� - ".....And to cut off the roots of the unbelievers......I will assist you with a thousand angels, ranks on ranks..... "I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: Smite ye above their necks And smite all their finger-tips off them." Sura 4:7,9,12. "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors:..." Sura 5:54

    and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

  13. Vj ~ If ever scripture needs reproofing and correcting, it cannot be one from an Omniscient and All-wise God.

    17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

  14. Vj ~ Incest leads to mental and physical infirmities - how could the first civilization of Cain and his sister (incest) brought forth perfect people?

    (KJV) Rev 22:18-21 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

  15. Vj ~ Then the Pope (Parkinson), Billy Graham (Parkinson�s and cancer), Pastor John Wesley (stroke) are all guilty of adding to his prophecy since they are plagued with diseases. I can only imagine what is yet in store for you who have done so little.
Dialogue 34
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Hello MIKE_BRUCE3 - June 01, 2000
    singhvj, You try to reason salvation and redemption out as a man, when it is a spiritual thing.
  1. Vj ~ It is a man by his own effort who must redeem himself and it is a man who must strive by his own strenuous individual effort to attain salvation, which is spiritual.

    You cannot reason as a man and understand the ways of God.

  2. Vj ~ How would you know if you haven't tried it? It is more logical to reason as a man/woman to know God. It is true not all men/women have the proper reasoning skills, but if one doesn't try how would one know how capable one is in ingraining the proper reasoning habits to know God. On the other hand, if reasoning which is the path to wisdom, is not necessary for salvation, then what is the need for the practice of proper ethics and morals (revelation)?

    Hello Xianzebala - June 01, 2000
    Hi, Mike Bruce Today I asked a friend from India about the difference between the vida, hinduism, and hari Krishna. He told me that they all have the same origin, but the Vedic religion is more like spiritual and Philosophic.

  3. Vj ~ I also asked Anwar Shaikh and Zulifar Khan of their opinion of Islam. My friends provided proof from quotes from the Hadiths and Q'uran. What has your friend from India provided to back up your statement?

    When I told him about this singhvj who is all over the religion boards cursing and attacking other people's values and beliefs and praising his own "idiotic wisdom",

  4. Vj ~ Did you tell him that you cursed and attacked me more than I did and I didn't mind?

    he said:"This man is not a vedic, impossible, they don't do that, and they would never attack other people's beliefs, he is an imposter!!!" then he said the name suggests that he is a sikh ..

  5. Vj ~ Why don't you and your friend read my site instead of guessing like idiots, who I am?

    I don't know, may be he is sick more than sikh..!!

  6. Vj ~ If I am by constructive criticism, then what do you call one Muhammad, whom you call a prophet of God, who sexually molested a nine-year-old child?
    FROM THE HADITH OF THE SUNAN OF ABU DAWUD
    Abu Dawud's Hadith is the third most respected Hadith in Islam.
    From Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, #2116:
    "Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."

    Hello RavenWick - June 01, 2000
    XIANZEBALA....While I disagree with some of your "word choices" and "means of attack", I never the less find absolutely no disagreement with your assessment of this jackass maniac SINGH....

  7. Vj ~ If that is your only disagreement then you must be a pedophile also condoning his prophet's sexual molestation of a nine-year-old child (Aisha)?

    This person SINGH is devoid of anything resembling spirituality or moral character...

  8. Vj ~ Where have you been Raven-Wick-head? You must be brain-dead not to know what "spirituality or moral character" does Muhammad an adulterer, polygamist, child-molester, murderer represents? Would you let a 54-year-old who already have eight wives have sexual relations with your nine-year-old daughter, and believe whatever he says about God after that?

    A true lost soul wandering around in a spiritual vacuum vomiting his impotent wrath....

  9. Vj ~ Obviously not even as close and deadly as Muslims and Christians wrath of tyranny and barbarism over the centuries, plundering, enslaving, rape and murder in the name of religion.

    Proof positive that artificial intelligence will never be a match for natural born stupidity...

  10. Vj ~ Had you known the difference, you would have been a fair mediator rather than an imbecile who supports one that praises a pedophilic, polygamist and an adulterer prophet.
Dialogue 35
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Hello Pvaaunle - June 04, 2000
    He could close all the hospitals and would here on this earth if all His dear children would repent and turn to Him.
  1. Vj ~ How can ordinary Christians be expected to �repent� when the Pope, Christ's vicar, (Parkinson's) and Billy Graham (Pope's vicar, (Parkinson's, deafness and prostate cancer) have not repented yet?

    Hello RavenWick - June 04, 2000
    SINGH....What I may or may not believe belongs to me and me alone

  2. Vj ~ The same can be said of ignorance also.

    however in the Judeo-Christian belief system, there are two distinct wills of God..

  3. Vj ~ Then why not seek the system where God has only one will - perpetual happiness for all.

    The pervasive will of God which is His unalterable will which has no compromise....

  4. Vj ~ This simply means He is merciful and just - whatever a man sow that will he reap, no less and no more. No compromise means no forgiveness.

    There is also the permissive will of God in which God permits events to occur rather than ordain them to occur...

  5. Vj ~ It is the same as mercy and just since whatever is permitted is ordained by the method of dispensing justice since a man can only reap what he sowed.

    In this belief system God is absolutely sovereign and man has only limited free will....

  6. Vj ~ But God, in reality, is sovereign and man has free will but is subjected to His justice with no exception or compromise.

    That which God permits to happen...You've introduced what's called Calvinism into your rebuking...

  7. Vj ~ Does our system of justice permit crime because criminals are punished? Obviously not, the same with God.

    I have no concerns regarding the merits and liabilities of Calvinism versus Arminianism but rather with your own blind hatred of any beliefs different than your own...

  8. Vj ~ You should, it takes an intelligent and rational mind to examine impartially the tenets of all philosophies to ascertain if yours is true.

    Most particularly because you lack even fundamental understanding of that which you hate...

  9. Vj ~ This would depend on what a fool knows of hate verses the truth. You, who have not examined thoroughly the doctrines of the world would know the least of this "fundamental understanding".

    I have no dispute with the beliefs of anyone at all...

  10. Vj ~ How could you when you don't know what is false and what is the truth?

    Yours included...Christianity calls believers to spread the gospel, and I accept that...

  11. Vj ~ Then you are an idiot, why would you accept the propagation of something that you don't know if is true or false?
    "Jesus says, "I AM the Way, the Truth and the Life, NO ONE comes to the FATHER except through ME". John 14:6" It simply means 4 billion souls are going to hell.

    Judaism calls believers to keep laws and traditions and I also accept that...

  12. Vj ~ You are slowly becoming a bigger idiot - Judaism sees all others as Satanic but Jews, so how can their "laws and traditions" be helpful to the rest of the world. Besides their �laws and traditions� have brought them nothing else but centuries of enslavement, persecution and anti-semitism. Besides, it must have failed, why else a replacement, the New Testament?

    SINGH, the problem with you is a lack of acceptance of much of anything because you've made a decision to live in the problem....

  13. Vj ~ I see the problem, brainless you accepting blindly without any impartial investigation of the others.

    When you decide to stop living in the problem and start living in the solution the problem will go away...And so will your bitterness...

  14. Vj ~ It is obvious if I had a problem, I would have been long gone. Do you have any idea why I am always here responding to every post, whether it be an intelligent or foolish one, and everyone else is leaving? Truth is utterly bitter to a fool my friend and if you can't see it any other way, know that you are a fool compromising to all theologies, hoping that some God would have pity on you saving you from some hellfire.

    Hello RavenWick -
    SINGH...I delight in your postings for if ever anything represented the dark, foolish side it's indeed you and amusement such as you provide is scarce.

  15. Vj ~ The others have practically said the same thing but they leave in a hurry, I wonder why, if they are such great lovers of amusement.

    The only problem you present is the fact that you are so very wrong on everything you post,

  16. Vj ~ The verdict indeed of an imbecile - how could I be wrong when you know nothing of my faith?
Dialogue 36
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Hello Pvaaunle - June 06, 2000
    This is God�s answer to your proclaimed intelligence.
  1. Vj ~ I would rather you answer it since your god is already a bigger fool.

    As for not searching out the other philosophies I was into the other philosophies and religions to the point of having out of body experiences and it was all very unfulfilling and did nothing for that great big void in my soul.

  2. Vj ~ No wonder - you were supposed to put it in your brains (intellect), not in your body where the possibility exists to excrete it.

    You can call us fools and anything else you want to but that will not change the truth.

  3. Vj ~ I know, the truth is, there is no cure for a fool.

    Read this and understand what true wisdom is all about.

  4. Vj ~ I read the Bible and I do understand the 'true wisdom' of incest (Cain, Lot), adultery (Abraham, David, Solomon), murder (god, Moses), homosexuality, etc. and those prophets who were guilty of them also gain salvation. I see no less for me with a cleaner (morally and ethically) slate.

    Hello RavenWick - June 06, 2000

  5. Vj ~ Well if your God is ignorant and he sent you instructions (irrational Bible) what better response can I expect from you?

    Regarding others leaving so quickly, once the amusement has past, you provide nothing in the way of intelligence or insights

  6. Vj ~ How can I provide "intelligence or insights" to a fool when even God has no cure for one.

    and as the result cause others to flee in boredom...

  7. Vj ~ It wouldn't matter where a fool flees he/she will always be bored. Isn't it strange that since I did not flee, I might be the perfect example of one who is never bored?

    inflated ego deceives you into to believing otherwise.

  8. Vj ~ And yours, strangely, is keeping you immersed in ignorance.

    Hello RavenWick - June 07, 2000
    SINGH....Your ignorance continues to abound....

  9. Vj ~ If the others left because of it, I wonder what's keeping you here?

    Of course you can't flee as others have....

  10. Vj ~ Then what more proof you need for my wisdom?

    After all you have to take you where ever you go and others gratefully don't....

  11. Vj ~ Maybe you don't know, fools strive on ignorance (hate), they might not take me, but they don't forget.

    It's rather as though you're suffering a life sentence of having to be you...

  12. Vj ~ Knowing myself more than you know yourself, I really don't mind.

    And perhaps your memory is as poor as your "intellect' but you continue to tie me into to a "god reference"...LOL, Oh SINGH you poor hapless creature...Blessed Be, Meow

  13. Vj ~ Perhaps but it makes no difference in godly or ungodliness when it comes to ignorance -you may laugh now but you will be crying later.

    Hello Pvaaunle - June 07, 2000
    Singh, why don't you just admit how lost and lonely you really are

  14. Vj ~ Where have I indicated that I have a shot-gun to my head?

    and how afraid of THE TRUTH.

  15. Vj ~ "THE TRUTH" your God can be so immorally cruel and stupid as dictated by his choices of mentally and sexually depraved prophets, .

    God already knows and understands your fear and HIS PERFECT LOVE casts out all fear.

  16. Vj ~ Really! "Father why hast thou forsaken me" - if Christ feared death, I can only imagine what is in store for those who follow him.

    Stop kidding yourself, your words and knee jerk reactions reveal the emptiness and darkness that abide in your soul.

  17. Vj ~ And weren't Abraham's action of seducing his house-maid, Lot impregnating his two daughters, Solomon and David desperate hunts for vaginas indications of "emptiness and darkness"? If these putrid imbeciles are sitting next to your God in heaven, why should even a non-Christian fear though not guilty of any those immoral actions.

    You don't have to stay in this condition the choice is yours.

  18. Vj ~ I know, I have a choice to commit adultery (Abraham), incest (Lot) and murder (Moses) to sit next to your God, or burn in hell for not doing any of them. My gut feeling tells me that I prefer the latter.
Dialogue 37
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Hello RavenWick - June 07, 2000
    SINGH....The inability of one to flee a life sentence of self agony is hardly what one might call wisdom...
  1. Vj ~ Then you must be one of wisdom to know that.

    It's rather selfagony from which one can't flee...

  2. Vj ~ Perhaps, but true to my philosophy (Sattvic), whatever is poison now, will eventually lead to nectar in the end. But for you my friend what is not agony (nectar) now is poison (tamasic) in the end.

    SINGH you simply have no idea how grateful I am that I don't know you at all...

  3. Vj ~ On the other hand, I am happy that I know you well. You are indeed a great help to the wise who can draw wisdom even from a fool.

    The acrid odor of sulphur and feces from you is sufficient to warn others away...

  4. Vj ~ It is the intent but I didn't know it was that effective. But what kind of an imbecile would brave it just "to see exactly how deeply" I am able to take my self into "further ignorance"?

    Finally SINGH I remain for one reason only...To see exactly how deeply you are able to take yourself into further ignorance...LOL,

  5. Vj ~ I can go as deep as I want if that is what it takes to give you a response, I have nothing to loose but more to gain. It is the idiot who is there that may never get out.

    So far my stay is longer than I ever expected for your ignorance seems to know no limits...

  6. Vj ~ Perhaps like a dog, you are enjoying the "the acrid odor of sulphur and feces" or your sense of smell is non-functional.

    Hello Pvaaunle - June 08, 2000
    Imagine yourself spending eternity with the one who is the lord of singh�s life and whose word he speaks.

  7. Vj ~ There can be no eternal reward or punishment (heaven or hell) for finite actions. It is an injustice and can never be the act of a Compassionate and Merciful God. It will be unfair for even our own fallible system of justice to inflict life-imprisonment for all crimes however small. Why would an All-perfect God want to do it when our own system of law deems it unfair?

    Singh please I beg you open your mind just a tiny little crack and let some light in.

  8. Vj ~ It is the uncontrolled mind that leads Christians to believe in such an irrational dogma, had they open their intellect instead, some reasoning would perhaps take hold.

    Hello Xianzebala - June 08, 2000
    Pvaaunle, you're beautiful, and your spirit is more beautiful to say such words to Maharoachi..

  9. Vj ~ O how Muhammad, void of self-control, must be rolling in his grave at the mentioned of such sensual words.

    What do you mean by "tiny crack" his head is cracked wide already, and he has no brains,

  10. Vj ~ A good example of a cracked head, is the sex-maniac and pedophilic Muhammad who showed no mercy for sexually abusing a nine-year-old child and call himself a messenger of God. The crack is even wider when nearly 2 billion Muslims follow this cracked-pot imbecile thinking he can be the way to a Paradise of 72 virgins.

    don't you see that he is echoing the same broken record for years?..

  11. Vj ~ You may not know this but those who are followers of false gods are dull (static) in intellect and hopefully "echoing" may be the only way to help if the disease of ignorance has not reached an incurable state.

    "Hate will keep us together..!"

  12. Vj ~ It is the Q'uran that propagates hate against women (mostly their own) and non-muslims and the dark history of Islam is enough proof of so many sad events barbarism and tyranny.

    which reflects what his religion is all about,

  13. Vj ~ Vj ~It is your hate that prevents you from examining my site to at least have an idea of what my religion really is, rather than making blind accusations. It is the same principle of non-reasoning that Muslims apply in following a 'prophet' of a rotten and despicable character.

    and to spout his venom (as he said) which is his life-support.

  14. Vj ~ Very true, truth is venom to a fool and if the illiterate, lustful, pedophilic, epileptic, polygamist and blood-thirsty Muhammad was not a venom by looks and conduct, as his own Q'uran and Hadiths revealed, no one who has, would have had any reason to spout it.

    Hello RavenWick - June 08, 2000
    or is it simply the fact that one as "wise" as you hasn't yet learned to spell lose?...

  15. Vj ~ Well I thought one as 'intelligent' as you would pretend to be, would have no difficulty in figuring out the true meaning even if only an "o" is missing. I have also encountered many misspelled words and grammatical errors, including my own, but I value wisdom to be far above your language.

    LOL Oh lord SINGH either way reads correctly.

  16. Vj ~ If it does what then is the point of your response?

    Thank you and thank you again..

  17. Vj ~ You are welcome.
Dialogue 38
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Hello RavenWick - June 09, 2000
    SINGH....And with your admission of your own ignorance and the recognition of my gratitude you've more than fulfilled my final expectations from you....The dance is now over and may you find peace in your restless, spiteful spirit my hapless friend...I'm moving on..
  1. Vj ~ One would expect that "fulfillment" is enough a desire to stay on and enjoy more of it. Anyway I thank you very much my friend for participating and may your search, wherever it takes you, bring you the truth some day.

    Hello Pvaaunle - June 09, 2000
    Singh you should be able to see who is being deceived and by whom.

  2. Vj ~ It is better to know, not see.

    that�s why He gave us The Bible.

  3. Vj ~ There were religions long before the Bible, perhaps God had some thing to do with that too?

    Because God never interferes with the choices

  4. Vj ~ Had he not interfered would Cain have murdered his brother; would so many innocent men, women and children have died by his vengeful and murderous actions by destroying Sodom and Gamorrah, flood the world and destroy 70,000 Israelites, etc.? It will serve you better to stop reading (the Bible) and reason a little. A god who has exacted such atrocities on his own creation, obstructing free-will, cannot be a god of love.

    Hello Jewelled-Spirit - June 09, 2000
    Pvaaunle ~ Something to think about, anyway.

  5. Vj ~ It ("think") seems somewhat an impossible task for a Christian. I don�t know any that have a functional intellect, much less to think.

    Hello kwest_97 - June 10, 2000
    I believe whatever I have proven to myself.

  6. Vj ~ And whom do you know to be an exception to this rule?

    Consequently, I believe in a universal One God.

  7. Vj ~ While belief is in question here, it is necessary to examine all sources, including yours.

    I believe that neither religion, the Bible, nor any other man-made thing is God.

  8. Vj ~ It is just another belief like the others, how can it be ascertained to be the truth?

    The God of my understanding is a Big God. As Big as All there is.

  9. Vj ~ Great understanding, what more you need to know?

    Hello C_Diamond - June 10, 2000
    God has turned the wisdom of the world into foolishness.

  10. Vj ~ What else can be expected of a foolish God?

    And no fool, in the true sense of the word, will get to heaven.

  11. Vj ~ You must be the only exception.

    And remember, a Wise Man fears the Lord.

  12. Vj ~ Then a fool is better off remaining a fool.
Dialogue 39
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Hello MIKE_BRUCE3 - June 10, 2000
    Only the blood of Jesus Christ can wash away those sins......and you start living a purer life.
  1. Vj ~ Why strive to live a purer life now when all that is required is his blood to wash away all sins in the end?

    Hello Pvaaunle - June 11, 2000
    Come out of yourselves and listen to one who has been shown the truth of our relationship with God thru a personal appearance before Christ Query.

  2. Vj ~ Perhaps, like you, if we all hold a shot-gun to our head we also can be blessed with "a personal appearance before Christ". Rather unlucky, isn't it, for those before guns were invented.

    Hello Pvaaunle - June 12, 2000
    VJ Why do you cling so tightly to your ignorance.

  3. Vj ~ If you worship a god, father of all, who had sex with his children, an old woman (Abraham's wife, his half-sister) and an innocent young virgin (Mary), I doubt whether you can relate to what is ignorance.

    If you would just open up your mind for an instant you could receive some real light.

  4. Vj ~ Light (knowledge) can only enter the intellect and from there the mind becomes enlightened (controlled) - any other way is false.

    Are you that stupid to believe that everything happens the same for everyone?

  5. Vj ~ When you are that stupid to believe that a fool and a wise man happen to get the "same" reward (heaven), why not?

    Hello kwest_97 - June 13, 2000
    singhvj, last question in post 273"...what else do you need?" Answer: Nothing.

  6. Vj ~ I agree, all a fool has to do to get to heaven is repent, it is actually nothing at all.

    Hello Pvaaunle -
    VJ How sad it is to read the words of someone who is supposedly mature or who claims to be so wise that reveals just the opposite.

  7. Vj ~ You must be speaking of Abraham, claimed to be "supposedly mature" and "so wise" a father of all Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, whose immoral actions of seducing his housemaid causing a child to be born out of wedlock (bastard), as "just the opposite".

    What I can't figure out is why you can't see it.

  8. Vj ~ If Christianity is only for those who can "see", then it is an injustice to the blind.

    I used to live by the con and it was a requirement in order to be successful to hide your real self under vast layers of pretense.

  9. Vj ~ You still are, but only this time you are terribly brain-washed.

    You are doing just the opposite.

  10. Vj ~ Exactly, the opposite of false (Christianity) is truth (true religion).

    You are trying to convince us that you have found the ultimate truth and therefore you should be giving us some evidence of its life changing value.

  11. Vj ~ And what evidence you have that Jesus raise the dead, feed thousands with a few loaves of bread and walk on water?

    But instead like a little child you can only react to the words we write and constantly make false accusations about God who you obviously DON'T have even a clue as to what He is really like.

  12. Vj ~ If you know him so well why not have sex with your brother (as Cain did) or with your father as in Lot's case?

    How would you feel if your child if you have one said the things about you that you say about God?

  13. Vj ~ Well since my God has never been guilty of acting stupid and immoral, I guess the only god he can talk about, like me, is your god.

    But He still loves you and with all of His Heart, and He has a big one, wishes that you would love Him back.

  14. Vj ~ A god who murders, maimed and is jealous in one moment and then loves the next cannot be trusted.
Dialogue 40
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Hello lumineuse - June 19, 2000
    Dear Vijay, I am curious to know what is your approach to life.
  1. Vj ~ Seeking the correct knowledgeand put it into practice.

    I would really like to know what your thoughts are about life.

  2. Vj ~ Life is absolutely fantastic when one does not have to defend one's religion or God.

    Whether you think God is a fool or not is one thing, but do you believe in the law of karma?

  3. Vj ~ It is the law of karma that gave me the privilege to denounce the gods and those who follow them, as fools.

    Whatever you do comes back to you (or as you sow so shall you reap) and so the wise man, the man who really has a desire for peace, love and happiness strives to think, speak and behave in such a way that these qualities do come back into his life.

  4. Vj ~ Well you must really know what is consist of wisdom to have recognized a wise man, otherwise how would you know that I am on the right track?

    Why should I worry about what others are doing or not doing, or whether they will go to heaven or not?

  5. Vj ~ Wise men don't worry about anything, they only do what is natural disseminate true knowledge.

    that really there is not much time to worry about what others are doing!

  6. Vj ~ Time is in abundance for the wise, it is fools who are always running out of it.

    There is a saying in Sindi "the soul who has truth dances in happiness" I hope you are constantly dancing in happiness in your mind-

  7. Vj ~ If you were indeed and intelligent mind, you would have easily noticed my "happiness" by the appropriate and speedy responses to all opinions and views on all my message-boards, and with prejudice towards none.

    Hello MIKE_BRUCE3 - June 19, 2000
    Vijai, no one is guaranteed a "later."

  8. Vj Neither can one be guaranteed a "now" when one's god is a bigger fool than one is. ~

    You may not have time to repent.

  9. Vj ~ Time is on my side, think of Abraham who was sexually enjoying his housemaid, Lot, sexually enjoying his two daughters and Solomon and David enjoying hoards of women, they all still had time to repent why not me, since I did not waste any of my time doing any of those things?

    Also, there comes a time when you will not be able to get saved, because the Holy Spirit ceases to "deal " with you.

  10. Vj ~ I have no confidence in such a "Holy Spirit" to save me, since it could not prevent your prophets from committing adultery, incest and murder. Prevention is always better than cure.

    Acceptance of Christ creates a REAL CHANGE in a person.

  11. Vj ~ Why would I want to become an adulterer or murderer only to be changed by Christ?

    If that person is REALLY SAVED, he wishes to live a better life, and relies on CHRIST, not himself, to lead him in that direction.

  12. Vj ~ Why must one bother to change at all when Christ died on the cross for all sins of the world?

    Hello WindSister1_ - June 19, 2000
    Vijai, I would call him compassionate, forgiving, good, loving, "Father," "Lord," "Creator."

  13. Vj ~ I could too, but only if I can try to forget that this "loving Father" seduced two of his children (Sarah and Mary), murdered innocent people and creatures of the world by fire, flood, famine and plagues.

    Think of the story of the prodigal son.

  14. Vj ~ The story of Abraham and his housemaid, Lot and his daughters, David and Solomon and their concubines, could be more fun for a man, especially if he can get away with it, as they did.

    My God, my father, would kill the fatted calf for me -- or for you, my friend.

  15. Vj ~ I know, that is what Abel thought too only he did not live to enjoy it. If you can't trust this God to protect the first two brothers of creation, how can I trust him when they are so many today?
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"Just as color cannot be perceived by ears, nor sound by eyes; in like manner, the Eternal Supreme Spirit is not perceptible to the senses. He can only be seen by a pure soul through the purity of heart, acquisition of knowledge and the practice of yoga. Just as one cannot reap the advantages of knowledge without acquiring it, likewise the Supreme Spirit cannot be seen without the practice of yoga and gaining the highest knowledge." The Light of Truth
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