Do all paths lead to God?
Part I


Dialogue 1
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Reply to Brad D - Date:12-20-04
It sounds like many people are interested in this subject. People are looking for answers. Answers to the mysterys of God, and the way to peace and heaven. I'm increasingly curios to how people arrive at their personal con- clusions about their God, and the path to see him. Some religions exercise some very good human characteristics. When someone makes a comment on their idea of God, what gives that idea substance, and eventually regarded as truth. It seems like their is an endless list of comments and beleifs. So, who is right? Whose personal opinion is the gospel that will save us? We live in a time where few people will take the time to reinforce their personal beliefs with facts. It takes time and persistence. Most of us spend much time meeting our external needs. Education is very important. Few people have the ability to keep words and ideas of God in context. Here are some definitions from Webster"s Dictionary on the word context. 1-the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning. 2-the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs.
Vj ~ Who is right - will be the one who can put a rational and universal definition to the truth. It is true that much research must be done and this requires a lot of time and effort, but the truth is of such a nature, that those in pursuit of it, do find themselves with much time to do both - career and spirituality. After all, it makes good sense for both to go hand in hand since where career ends, true spirituality must continue if one wants to find sanctuary from boredom and other discomforts of life. It is the right inclination and impartiality needed to begin this journey lie the real difficulty.

Reply to Jacsimo (Pam) - Date:01-27-05
"So, no, not all paths lead to God, for the true path that leads to God, is the path within you and that is the path that each must follow. To thine own self be true."
Vj ~ To each "thine own" is still a baseless opinion. No love is genuine in the the absence of truth, where the correct knowledge is a necessary requirement. Truth must meet a rational universal definition if it must be ascertained. So until then, the "path within you" is still in doubt, leading nowhere.

Reply to - Pam - Date:02-03-05
Hi Vi, I would tend to say that no truth is genuine in the absence of LOVE.
Vj ~ Well it seems that we differ so let's put it to a test. The truth is, it is wrong to take a life, so if you are not a vegetarian, your love is a selfish one. You cannot be true to "thine self" if innocent creatures must suffer to appease your appetite.
So seek the correct knowledge to first know "thine self" and then the showering of love becomes natural.

Reply to Pam - Date:02-03-05
Sorry Vi, but this is not what brings truth, nor is it said in the Spirit of Truth, but is an opinion only. God does not judge, so I do not judge, you or anyone else. As long as mankind follows on the traditions and opinions of others, then they are not acting as their own true selves, but are followers. I am my own authority, to that authority, I remain true. Now, that is not an ego statement, it is a spiritual statement. Can you see the difference?
Vj ~ You seem to speak a lot of truth, so why can you not put a definition to it? And as long as you were taught by someone else, there is an authority far above you. To deny it is an act of ingratitude.

Reply to Pam - Date:02-03-05,
Who said anything about being taught by someone else? I didn't, so where did that come from. I am my main authority, and I know that. That knowing comes from within, it is not taught. Try going within for a while and you will Know yourself. That is the best advice I can give you, then you will not need definitions. God is within and You are One with God, therefore go within and you will find your own authority. I cannot be any plainer than that.
Vj ~ So why do we need revelation (instructions) if all that we need, even God, is within us?

Reply to Pam - Date:02-04-05
Hi Vi, I just clicked on the link in your post, and it takes me onto a website. I dont know if this is your own website or not. But anyway, I see a notice there about protecting religion and ask myself why would anyone want to protect religion? Maybe you can tell me, if this is indeed your site, if not and it is just a site that interests you then there is no need to go further.
Vj ~ Yes Pam, it is my site and if you go further into it you will find the answer to the questions you asked. Those (easily offended) who fight (in words and/or action) are protecting religion.
True love is disseminating a knowledge that can save a human soul and such knowledge cannot come without a teacher altruistic in nature.
As for being taught, you may be the only one I know that didn't go to school at all.

Reply to Omega (Richard) - Date: 2006
ESCAPE THE COMING NIGHT VJ- As my dear friend Craig, so well puts it. Not all road will lead you to Rome. Yet, Jesus Christ, being the only ONE who DIED, and was made ALIVE through the Power of His Heavenly Father LORD GOD Almighty and Most Sovereign, ENTERED His Son, Jesus, raising Jesus up as Jesus had promised. If you attempt to destroy 'this Temple' (referring to Himself), then on the 3rd Day, I will raise it up again. (Inferring that His Heavenly Father HOLY SPIRIT was indeed residing in Him as WITNESS).
Vj ~ Hi Richard, if Christianity is the 'road' to "Rome" (God) then millions in remote regions (Incas & Mayans, etc.) of the world who never heard of Christ surely missed it, a grave injustice, which cannot be the work of a Just and Merciful God. To deprive so many, by declaring "I am the way, the life, and the truth and no one shall come to the father but true me." is changing the rules in the middle of the game.

Without reasoning man is doomed to the curse of false worship, so be true to yourself and take a good and long look into the one true religion. It is the only chance a Christian has to save his/her soul.

Reply to Pam - Date:02-04-05
Who said anything about being taught by someone else? I didn't, so where did that come from.
Vj ~ You have to make up your mind lady, so, were you taught or not?

Reply to Omega - Date:02-07-05
Hi VJ- "Did you Know?" Yet, Our Heavenly Father, LORD GOD, Almighty God, Most Sovereign and Majestic. Through the Power of His HOLY SPIRIT of God, commissioned Jesus Christ while in the sealed tomb, to go down in HADES. To proclaim His Gospel of Jesus Christ so that those at the Time of the Great Flood of NOAH DAY, would have a second chance to be saved from the 2nd Death. Only after he had set the captives FREE, did he come out into the OPEN on the THIRD DAY.
Vj ~ When will you people grow up - all these myths were born in an age of ignorance where those who authored the bible didn't know the planets were many and the earth was spherical, how could they be truthful in anything else?

I can't see how those in "Hades" (wherever that is) were set free in three days without any written gospel when 2000 years have past and more than 4 billion could care less of a written one.
Had your God truly been "Almighty God, Most Sovereign and Majestic" he could have sent Christ in the beginning and save himself a lot of trouble? As I said, it cannot be the work of One infallible to change the rules in the middle of the game (of human creation) still in progress.

Dialogue 2
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Reply to Pam - Date:02-07-05
Hi VJ, the vibrations I am picking up on you are not clear. I can pick up on the vibrations of Truth, and that is not what Iam picking up on you, Iam sorry to say.
Vj ~ It is only those who have a definition for the truth can pick it up. You have failed so far to give me such a definition, so whatever you are picking up cannot be the truth.

What I am picking up is that your mind is saying one thing, and your heart is saying something different. This is also what I meant when I said to be True to yourself. I KNOW you are not doing that.
Vj ~ It is my intellect that speaks and unless you learn to develop such an intellect (rational) you wouldn't know what is the meaning of being "true to yourself".

but my spritual teachings were not that long ago in a time context. Now, as you know, and as I know you know, the addage of the master or guru appears when the sudent is ready.
Vj ~ I meant to say that, we do not own any of the knowledge that we have come to possess through learning but when the knowledge (especially spiritual) is put into practice by our own individual effort (yoga), it is called wisdom and that we not only own, but follows us into our next birth.

I understand the Upanisheds, and I believe that the Vedas are the first sciptures ever written and recorded. So please tell us more. Love and Blessings Pam
Vj ~ The Vedas are unimportant now, it is reasoning that must be first ingrained to know right from wrong before realization. It will be difficult to know that is true if you cannot first recognize what is false. Read the works of Thomas Paine, Albert Einstein, Luther Burbank, etc., since they took the very path necessary to know what was false.

Reply to Omega - Date:02-07-05
Dear Vj- for an individual seeking knowledge and wisdom, you flabblergast me
Vj ~ Dear Richard, you are flabbergasted because you have no idea what knowledge is required to seek wisdom. Tell me, my friend, how would you know who is wise, unless you are wise yourself? How could you determine one apple (Bible) to be the sweetest (true) among the many (scriptures) if didn't taste (study) them all?

I certainly trust that you are NOT Hebrew! O why would I say that??
Vj ~ It never ends eh! You said it because they view Christ as a heathen who deserved to die the way he did.

According to the BOOK OF EXODUS . Almighty LORD God, helped to Deliver all of the Hebrew People that we enslaved in Egyptian Bondage.
Vj ~ If he is "Almighty LORD God" how come he took 400 years to liberate them? Even better, why couldn't he have prevented it, to begin with?

Are you humble enough to believe the Material Facts of Moses writings, And PLEASE tell me which side of Faith you do stand on.
Vj ~ A humble person is one who is wise and no wise man could ever believe in such a book as the Bible. Here is the FAITH I stand on.

Since, if you are A complete- NON-BELIEVER, then I would say, what you said, concerning spiritual events, comes out of a mouth of a complete FOOL!.Most humbly and respectfully yours,
Vj ~ Then you are wise because a wise man knows not only who is wise but who is a fool also. In belief there are doubts, but when you know there are no doubts. I am non-believer alright, for I am a knower.

Dialogue 3
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Reply to Pam - Date:02-09-05
Now VJ you must be aware that one cannot give or put a definition on Truth. Truth IS. Pam
And what do you really think I meant by truth must be in harmony with reasoning, science and in conformity with natural laws? If the "truth is", whose truth is the truth then, yours or the hijackers that brought down the WTC?

Reply to Pam - Date:02-09-05
But the mind of God, surpasses all reasoning,
Vj ~ How did you come to know the mind of God so well?

and the reasoning mind alone will not know God.
Vj ~ How do you know, have you tried it?

The intellect, of which the ego is a product, can only speculate and posture as to what GOD IS, it can never know GOD.
Vj ~ The intellect is what you put into it, no more and no less. If you constantly put rubbish in it as you are doing, it will remain static, but when it is steadfastly guided by the correct knowledge it will eventually lead to wisdom when put into practice, which in turn leads to peace, prosperity and perpetual happiness.
I linked you to the correct knowledge in case you are curious to know what it is.

In other words, get out of your head and into your heart.
Vj ~ It is a good thing I apply reasoning to whatever I am told to do - and that reasoning tells me that it is better to keep it in the "head" (intellect) since the heart can be transplanted at any time.

Reply to Omega - Your God is a thug in the sky! - Date:02-09-05
God asked one of his angels to go down to earth.
Vj ~ You haven't answered any of my questions yet, but I will still continue to question your response - why place faith in a God who is not around (omnipresent - here, there and everywhere)?

The arrogant wealthy King replied show me God awesome power Majesty and strength! That night a bolt of lightning killed the King and everyone else.
Vj ~ Sounds more like a bloodthirsty thug in the sky to me. I don't understand why the same god was so patient with the Pharaohs who enslaved his 'chosen' people (Hebrews) for 400 years and without much thinking struck down the "King and everyone else" for simply being arrogant?

So what are his plans for the millions of atheists on this planet, to have them killed by bolts of lightening too?
You should have your head examined, who knows you can still save your soul.

Reply to Pam - Date:02-09-05
Do you honestly believe that the intellect can bring harmony, peace and prosperity?
Vj ~ I honestly believe you will never know if you don't try it.

Reply to Omega - Date:02-09-05
Proverbs 6:16-19 There are six things that the LORD hates.
Vj ~ You still need to have your head examined. Your Lord is not god, simply because hate dwells among mortals only and not with wise men or an Omnipotent and Omniscient God who is free of anger, hate, etc. and always in an All-blissful state.

Dialogue 4
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Reply to Pam - Date:02-10-05
No, your not right. That is the answer in a nutshell.
Vj ~ Come on lady, your intellect is for the birds - if you have no intention of perusing my site to altleast know where I stand, how would you know if I am right or wrong?

What has the Veda done for you?
Vj ~ How ignorant can you be, when all you have to do is read my site.

I never read from your site, I just clicked on the link and saw the Veda's mentioned.
Vj ~ Well perhaps, that is all you are good for, clicking and looking!

I have read from the Upanishad's quite some time ago, and I believe that they contain some of the 'wisdom' of the Veda's.
Vj ~ In belief there are doubts and it seems to me that is all you are capable of - living in doubt.

Now where I do agree with you is in your remark that God is not a God of hate or wrath, but is indeed Bliss Itself. So, I do not think we are quite the poles apart as you seem to think.
Vj ~ You will never know how far apart we are if all you do is click and look. There are false gods and there is one true God and if your God is not the same as mine then we are more than poles apart.

Reply to Pam - Date:02-14-05
Dear oh deary me, what a palaver. My intellect is for the birds. LOL LOL LOL. I know you dont intend to make me laugh, but you do I have to say.
Vj ~ It is nice to know you are laughing, but even if you were offended, it would still be for your own good.

If your attitude was not so sad and biased I would feel pity for you. In fact that is what I do feel, pity for you. In belief there are doubt's you say. Maybe, maybe not, I have no doubts, I dont know about you, only you can answer that.
Vj ~ If I should ask you in which continent lies Brazil and you say "I believe it is South America", instead of "it is in South America", does not the former shows that you are in doubt? The same applies to any belief system or belief in God.

Yes, there are false God's, but these are not the ones called Jehova, of Krishna, or any other name you care to use. The false Gods are the man-made Gods, ie money, power, status, these are the man made false Gods.
Vj ~ Jehova and Krishna cannot be the same God, the former condone flesh-eating while the latter discourages it.

please stop being so uptight about everything, there is only ONE GOD, I shall repeat that in case you are in any doubt, There is only ONE GOD, therfore you MUST be worshiping the same GOD because there is no other. There may be different names, but that doesn't matter, God is egoless, One God, that' is all there is.
Vj ~ One God will be consistent and not changing or bringing opposing messages. Humankind is deeply divided today and there is nothing else to be blamed for it but religions. All the bloodshed the planet has experienced over the past 2000 years, religion was the cause. It is contrary to simple common sense for anyone to make the claim of one God with many names along the lines of all the religions of the world today.

Reply to Pam - Date:02-15-05
Can you clarify your last paragraph please VJ, because it doesn't make sense to me, me no understand it, LOL. Thanks. Love and Laughter
Vj ~ If it was the last one that didn't make sense to you, why not respond to the others? Jehova, Krishna, Christ, Allah, Om, Buddha, Sai Baba, Mahaveer,Yahwe are not the names of one the one true God I worship.

Reply to Pam - Date:02-17-05
Well VJ I have now looked through your website. What you are calling the true religion is the Veda's of Vedic Wisdom, which you said to me didn't matter now.
Vj ~ Right it doesn't matter until you can see the faults of your religion. Do you agree or disagree with the faults I have laid out?

That of course doesn't mean anything in particular, swamis are teachers like priests and ministers and dont all by any means know Truth.
Vj ~ You keep yapping away like a parrot, but yet cannot define what truth is. It means that you know the whole truth otherwise how would you know that they "don't all by any means know the truth"?

Yes, reasoning is certainly necessary up to a point, because reasoning only goes so far in the mortal mind. But the Mind of God, does not go contrary to reason, but rather it exceed's reasoning.
Vj ~ To what point? Reasoning goes all the way, without it, we will never know what is false or what is true. It is people like you, whom I meant to be pretentious in saving the world. How would you know what is the truth, when you cannot define it.

Dialogue 5
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Reply to Pam - Kaliyug - the age of ignorance - Date:02-23-05
V.J. In the contents of your mind, once you have looked at them seriously, without judging them, therefore, no reasoning must come into this process, you will then know what your mortal mind is made up off.
Vj ~ The mortal mind is made up of what you put in it. False or wrong knowledge, the outcome is you and the correct knowledge the outcome is me. Your Dadaji, Sai Baba, Maitreya and Babaji (Brahmakumaris) to which my younger sister also belongs to, are all hypocrites. There is no cure for a fool, so those who are relegated to following these nincompoops are completely lost. It is the age of kaliyug where righteousness (dharma) is facing a steep decline, so what else can be expected?

Reply to Omega - Date:02-23-05
Pam, I am truly disappointed in you. Jesus Christ, is the Author of Our Faith. May Our LORD grant you wisdom, from this day foreward.
Vj ~ How can your Lord grant wisdom when he himself has none.

God created eternal heavenly angelic beings, who shall never die.
Vj ~ Here I can prove you and your Lord to be very ignorant of the meaning of "eternal". It means that "which has neither beginning nor end". If the "heavenly angelic beings" are eternal it meant that they are without beginning and there would have been no need to create them. On the other hand, if they were created then they obviously had a beginning and therefore cannot be eternal, without end.

If the disobey God Law as Lucifer did, then they will ultimately be destroyed by Fire.
Vj ~ Again if they can be destroyed, it is obvious they have an end when in eternal it is without end. Go get your head examined Richard, you could be sitting on your brains.

Reply to - Date:02-23-05

LOL you haven't had one post that I can see where you have shared this 'correct' knowledge.
Vj ~ How about my last post to Richard? Does it seem rational in anyway to you?

No, I think your sister has gone down the road of Sai Baba, and if so I would be rightly concerned,
Vj ~ It is Dada Lekhraj, the Brahmakumaris and not Sai Baba, but I am not at all concerned, it is her soul, my duty is my own first.

I hope not, but if you are so sure that your knowlege is correct, then please share that knowlege, Iam all ears.
Vj ~ No wonder, how can you use your "ears" to read?
Here try using your eyes this time - Light of Truth.

Reply to Omega - some are so misguied - Date:02-24-05
Hi Pam, Pam, you are 100 pecent correct, concerning V.J. he certainly is a ' god' is his little own way.
Vj ~ Well I could be superior to your god since I truly understand the meaning of the word "eternal" which neither you nor your god does. Instead of brown-nosing to Pam, why not let us know if you got the meaning of the word "eternal", as you haven't responded to my rebuttal.

Dialogue 6
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Reply to Pam - Date:02-24-05
Hi VJ, yes your post seemed rational to me, in fact I see that you said much the same as I did, re being eternal and being destroyed in fire. And I pointed out the contradictory nature of what Richard was saying.
Vj ~ Don't you see you have the same problem as Richard - why should he try to know and understand your faith when you refuse to do the same for mine ?

If you were not concerened then you would not be calling her or me or anyone else hypocrites and fools. This is a contradiciton in terms.
Vj ~ No it's not a contradiction, it is the nature of wisdom to expose what is false and those who propagate it. Whether you, my sister or anyone else accept my truth or not, my soul does not bear the burden of defeat. On the other hand, if anyone is offended by it, consider it is done for your own good.

"It is laid down that man should so conduct himself that he might not give pain to and entertain inimical thoughts towards any living being. But in matters which are opposed to the teachings of the one true religion giving of pain becomes a duty."
That alone tell's me that you have not knowledge of the Truth.
Vj ~ Is it not the truth that hurts and perhaps the knowledge I possess is the truth, the result?

As does you sarcasim regarding my expression that 'Im all ear's', which is just an expression as you full well know.
Vj ~ I know it is, but it is intended to send a message that reading (sight) and listening (ears) leads nowhere without reasoning when it comes to the divine.

You will find the cause of all anger, rebellion, anxiety, hatred, and all the negative traits within yourself, that is where the cause lies.
Vj ~ Why would I be angry with those who have the choice to redeem themselves and chose not to do so? My wisdom tells me that compulsion being so, the majority don't have the inclination to seek this truth, but it shouldn't be a deterrent to disseminate the true knowledge of the Vedas.

The mortal mind contains knowledge of the world,
Vj ~ If it does, how come Richard's mind is void of it? The mind is, whatever you put into it and cannot alone decipher truth without the correct knowledge.

Constructive criticism can be helpful, if it is done with a loving heart.
Vj ~ Again, you are missing the point. Constructive criticism is helpful when it is done with a rational intellect. If it was the heart, then I would wonder why we were given brains?

If it is just criticism for the sake of destroying another's faith, then the aim, if to belittle or negate another's view in anyway, will come back to yourself. That is the Creative Law .
Vj ~ It is constructive criticism for the sake of exposing what is false and liberate souls that are subdued by it. The creative law is working against you, for you should strive to know the truth before telling others what they should do or shouldn't do. You will never be able to honestly judge me if you haven't the intention of studying my work. On the other hand, if all paths do not lead to God, then it is obvious their weaknesses must be pointed out how else can the one true path be established?

Reply to Omega - Date:02-24-05
Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Eleventh Edition, Page 643. ISBN 0-87779-807-9, 2003. inimical ITEM # 2 - HAVING THE DISPOSITION OF AN ENEMY; HOSTILE.
Vj ~ Am I really hostile or are you truly ignorant of the truth? By the same token, why not check up the word "eternal", perhaps it could save your soul?

Reply to Pam - Seeking the truth requires much time - Date: 02-24-05
Now, I dont mean to be rude to you, but I do not have time to read the whole of your web site,
Vj ~ So why do you think I have spent years putting it together, so that I can look at it? In my faith, it is those who are desirous of seeking the truth that comes to the teacher and not the other way around. Goodluck.

Dialogue 7
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Reply to mlofranco - Date:02-24-05
Originally Posted by mlofranco
Hi All...
Your firendly forum moderator checking in on the discussion..
Let's all refrain from name calling or calling another's point of view "ignorant".....
Forum Moderator

Vj ~ Inspite of it, the world has yet to experience harmony. Perhaps like me, we need more people to say it as is.

Reply to Omega - Date:02-25-05
(I have personally found that The GOOD NEWS BIBLE
Vj ~ If there were any good news in the Bible the frail Pope who is languishing in pain and misery would have found it already.

GNB P.766, Proverbs 16:8[/color] It is better to have a little honestly earned, Than to have a large income dishonestly gained.
Vj ~ I honestly think you should be sending this quote to the likes of Benny Hinn, Billy Graham and all the other hypocrites who are deceiving the public by the pretence of healing the sick.

"I've often wondered if Benny Hinn knows he's a fake or if he's just self-deluded." Justin Peters .
LASB, P. 1100, Proverbs 16:8[/color] Better a little righteousness Than much gain of injustice.
Vj ~ You won't know what righteousness is all about until you have impartially studied all religions. Right now, you know nothing of mine, so you are not an authority to speak on righteousness. When it comes to injustice, your Lord is guilty of the greatest injustice since millions were deprived before the Bible was made whole. I do not want to write too much as you don't have brains to even respond to anything rational. It is a sad state of affair that billions are being misled by just a few dishonest people craving for material wealth when the very book they hold as an authority says, "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man entering the kingdom of heaven."
Did you even look up the word "eternal"?

Reply to Pam - Date:03-01-05
V.J. Now I think
Vj ~ Why comment if you are not sure?

when you start to make your attack personal as you have done with Richard,
Vj ~ It has to be personal, since I can no longer do anything for the souls of those who authored the Bible.

you have lost all plausability regarding genuine courtesy to another member.
Vj ~ If the truth hurts, how else can it be disseminated?

And with it you lose the credibility to be even stating who is righteouss.
Vj ~ Losing "credibility" to whom? It takes one righteous to know who is righteous or unrighteous. Are you such one?

I am surprised a tad that the moderator has allowed your post,
Vj ~ Why be surprised, if a post offends you, aren't you free to inform the moderator?

as you dont seem to be discussing any particular point, just trying to negate the points that have already been made.
Vj ~ It is called constructive criticism to negate whatever is false even if they have already been made. I do it for the purpose of those also who are yet to read what we have already discussed and not only those involved in the dialogues themselves.

That of course you can do, but there is a right way and a wrong way.
Vj ~ First you will have to know what truth is, before dictating which way it must be propagated.

Trying to belittle someone, is not the way to do it.
Vj ~ When a doctor says surgery is necessary, it literally means belittling the patient who must be cut up like an animal. To avoid it, can't be more important than the result it will bring? The same with me, if one is offended by the truth, it is for one's own good.

Dialogue 8
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Reply to Pam - Date:03-01-05
First you have to know what Truth is, you say........fine then tell us.
Vj ~ If it was that simple to grasp, the whole world would have been emersed in it already, even you. But the truth is, one has to be mentally prepared and if what I am saying now is offensive, then you all are far from the mental preparation necessary to accept it.
My SITE has been carefully laid in such a way that whatever dogma you follow it has been constructively criticized so that you can see its faults. It is from there you must start the process of reasoning necessary and if you can't then compulsion being so, you will have to go through births after births until you get it. The idea to do it now is to avoid further pain and suffering which no one desires. Your idea of seeing the divine in others is hogwash. We are what we put into our intellect and only when the correct knowledge is applied to spirituality then the divine is felt.
��No tongue can express that bliss which flows, from communion with the Supreme Spirit, into the soul of that man whose impurities are washed off by the practice of YOGA, whose mind being abstracted from the outside world is centered in the Supreme Spirit; because that happiness is felt by the human soul in its inner self alone.� Upnishad
Reply to - Date:03-03-05
Now V.J. In this last paragraph that you have quoted from the Upanishad's, I know at last where you are coming from. Thanks. This is Truth and at last you have said it.
Vj ~ Dear Pam, it is only the truth when you can fearlessly denounce at will what is false and those who propagate it, even though it offends. This is also the truth
�Let him say what is good for another even though it may offend.� Light of Truth
It is the nature of wisdom that leads people like myself and those displayed on my site to expose what is false without fear for the good of all mankind.

Reply to Omega - Date:03-20-05
Dear Friend, What a wonderful day to be serving Jesus! Thank you for taking the time to write us via the Internet. It always blesses us to hear from those who have been touched and encouraged by this ministry. It is our prayer that God's perfect will be done in your life and ministry according to His Word. "For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister."
~ Hebrews 6:10 ~
The Bible declares in Proverbs 3:5-6, "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths." God delights in giving His children the desires of their hearts when we seek Him in Spirit and in Truth. As you continue to trust in the Lord, He will order your steps and teach you the way that you shall go.
"I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye." ~ Psalm 32:8 ~
We are believing for God's blessings to be upon your life, as you live for Jesus. May the Glory of Heaven reside in your dwelling now and evermore!
In His service,
Benny Hinn Ministries

Vj ~ Do some homework Richard and use your brains to reason more and write less.
"I've often wondered if Benny Hinn knows he's a fake or if he's just self-deluded." Justin Peters

Reply to Pam - Date:03-20-05
Hi V.J. You say it is only truth when you fearlessly denounce it. I say to you that Truth is known and shown by one's words and actions. They speak louder than any form of denouncement vocally expressed.
Vj ~ And if one's words and actions offend others, is it not the truth at all? After all, it is the truth that hurts, isn't it?

I understand what you are saying though, you feel moved by this Truth to let other's know too, but the heart that is full of love, shows by it's actions that which is perfect in every way. I am sure you understand what Iam meaning.
Vj ~ Yes I understand what you are saying but it is totally wrong since it is what one puts into the intellect guides one's actions. The only function of the heart is the filtration and distribution of blood.

Dialogue 9
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Reply to Pam - Date: 2006
LOL V.J. seems we are back to square one.
Vj ~ Well isn't it obvious, the reason we are at "square one" you are yet to use your intellect.

As I have said consistently in other posts and other topics, the intellect alone can not know the truth in the absence of reasoning guided by the correct (true) knowledge is wisdom. Men who acquired this wisdom are the wisest of all mankind, they are humble (free of vanity and above insults), pure (free of disease), altruistic (whatever they write or preach is free of copyright), complete in righteousness (sinless) and blissful (state of perpetual happiness). Their intentions are always noble ones, not only for the cause of the liberation of the soul, but freedom from physical and mental anguish.

It is truly sad that our present age is populated with billions who are virtually dense in ignorance, that when a wise man does appear to disseminate the truth he is instead branded as intolerant, a liar, a hate-monger and out to offend those who do not agree with him. Yes, the law of karma has created these conditions confirming fully to the dictates of natural laws where progression (righteousness) is downwards. Compulsion being so, because of the conditions we are born in, only a very few will come to know of this truth, but a wise man must continue to disseminate the truth as it has become his nature to do so, in spite of whom it may offend, after all only he knows it is for one's own good.

There is only one true God and He is the God of the Vedas which is the source of the highest of ethics and morals and above all the source of all sciences. They are in harmony with reasoning and conforms with natural laws. The Vedas are the only revelation on this planet that is free of historical references and therefore justly proclaim themselves eternal for all creations, ours and whatever else are in existence in the unlimited sky of solar systems, past, present and future ones to come.

False gods are those born out of Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Sikhism, Bahai, and all the other existing cults. All these false dogmas were concocted by evil men ignorant in nature who obviously were easily made saints among the gullible and whoever follows them is as guilty as they are in committing a thousand crimes. They depict God to be completely out of control and unjust by condemning all souls, opposing them and even those before and in remote regions who never heard of it to eternal hell of fire where there is no return. Neither are the faithful who submitted themselves are happy either since they do so under the duress of constant fear, is always reminded of their lagging performance in worship and never giving enough (free labor and finance). When there are so many adversities (pain and suffering) in the world what else is preventing so many, if not ignorance, to reason that these dogmas have nothing to do with divine spirituality?

The sole reason the truth hurts is because people have been misled all their lives into believing that sins are forgiven and salvation a free gift, when instead, sins are not forgiven and salvation requires strenuous and continuous effort of study and more so, practice (yoga) to free the soul. Reincarnation is a just law by a just God, that all souls are subjected to punishment and reward fitting of their sins and virtues respectively. No soul is condemned to eternal hell nor granted eternal salvation since finite actions can only reap finite results and no soul reap less or more than what is sown. In short, there is no forgiveness of sins. Emancipation is indeed a very long period because in happiness time flies while the period of pain and misery is very short, but appears to be longer since in pain, time seems to stand still. All souls are given the opportunity of salvation at some time, so when you are privileged with human birth to make the best of the opportunity since no one desires pain.

Reply to Pam - Date:03-29-05
Hi V.J. I concur completely with everything you have written in your first paragraph of your previous post. You have said it all in that paragraph, all the striving of the soul to be it's Divine Self and the reward's, so to speak are in that paragraph. But, I add, this does not come about through mere intellectual reasoning but by Divine Reasoning. Maybe we are just using different words to say the same thing.
Vj ~ I doubt it Pam because it calls for "intellectual reasoning" which you vehemently oppose.
So tell me, what does your "heart" have to say of the other verses?

Dialogue 10
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Reply to Pam - Date:04-01-05
This is essentially true V.J. and this I agree with, and yet, you still bring in the intellect, which can only reason things so far, it cannot go beyond into the realm that is called Divine Reasoning.
Vj ~ How do you know, have you tried it, at all? Does it mean that where your reasoning has failed you, that others haven't the capability to go further? I know you are totally void of intellectual reasoning, but it seems to me your heart is in no better condition.

The Veda's themselves cannot be corroborated
How would you know that they cannot be corroborated? What preparation is in place for you to recognize it, should they be corroborated?

and although undoubtedly the oldest scripture it certainly is, it has too no doubt been corrupted by the minds of men.
Vj ~ It still holds the truth even though many minds may be corrupted. Man can easily become corrupted, but the truth will always remain the truth. It is just like buying a car. It comes with a manual (instructions) which if the owner follows can guarantee trouble-free motoring. But if the opposite occurs because of neglect or rejection of the instructions, are we to blame the manual?

There is only One God, many messengers have been sent and taught of the One God,
Vj ~ If they all taught of this one God, how come we are so divided? Moses said "an eye for an eye" and Jesus said, "to turn the other cheek". Shouldn't the rules be changed before or after and not during the game (of human creation)?

so you cannot say in any truth whatsoever that only the Veda's have the true God,
Vj ~ There has to be one true God, otherwise He is not all-perfect or omniscient - meaning that whatever was revealed in the very beginning must be good until the very end of creation, without Him ever intervening.

Reply to Pam - Date:04-01-05
VJ I do know what omniscient means, it means all knowing. Thanks for your help anyway, maybe your dictionary has a different meaning.
Vj ~ Knowing what it means and applying it with good reasoning is entirely different. If He is All-knowing, then He would certainly know what instructions are best for the whole period of creation instead of intervening here and there. I was hoping that you knew the meaning of All-perfect also.

While you cling to the intellect you will not know God, it is as simple as that.
Vj ~ The question I am asking you, how would you know what the intellect is capable of when you oppose the idea of putting it to work?

The division is caused by people like you who proclaim that their God is the only God.
Vj ~ The divisions were here long before people like me and if there are so many like you, all having a heart, I am wondering why there is no headway towards greater spiritual harmony in the world. It is obvious there weren't any divisions when there was one religion, so to continue the propagation of the first religion now, must be a very sensible thing to do, isn't it?

I would have thought with your intellect you would have been able to work that one out yourself. Happy to help any way I can.
Vj ~ What my intellect has worked out is that your thought is a wasted one since you don't know what the intellect is capable of.

Dialogue 11
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Reply to Pam - Date:04-04-05
Hi VJ I am all too aware of what the intellect is capable of, I gave you a list of things on my post, which are destined to show you intellect.
Vj ~ Your "list of things" is nowhere close to realizing the Divine. In every field of professional traits, it demands the correct knowledge to qualify, so it is in the most abstruse of divine science where the intellect also must be guided by the correct knowledge to attain self-realization. It is the intellect in such state that differentiates a wise person (me) from an idiot (you).

Do not be fooled as most are by believing that the intellect is intelligence, it is not.
Vj ~ You have to be one of the most ignorant person I have spoken to in my life to make such a statement. It is definitely not intelligence when guided by the wrong knowledge but it is intelligence when guided by the correct knowledge.
You said we all worship the same God, but it is not true at all. The God of the Vedas said that "out of nothing, nothing can come" and the God of Torah, Bible and Quran all says that the universe was created out of nothing. Taken either way, one is lying to a lot of people. To figure out the truth of this statement requires intelligence (an intellect guided by the correct knowledge) and since you insist in having no intelligence I don't expect you to see the truth in whose God is true or false.

Reply to Pam - Date:04-06-05
Hi V.J. well LOL I may be the most ignoratant person you have ever met,LOL
Vj ~ If you weren't, you would have ignored the negative side of this dialogue and responded to the question of "one true God", but it is what ignorance does to a person he/she can't help defending his/her weaknesses.

I have no like or dislike either way for you
Vj ~ I know you have no dislike for me, but what bothers me, is that you don't know how much you dislike own yourself. On the other hand, can you tell me why I am trying so hard to save the souls of those I 'dislike'? I hate not the person but the ignorance that he/she dwells in.

Reply to Pam - Date:04-07-05
VJ but why should I respond to your one true God, when I have already responded to this before.
Vj ~ Where did you respond to this before? You said we all worship the same God, but it is not true at all. The God of the Vedas said that "out of nothing, nothing can come" and the God of Torah, Bible and Quran all says that the universe was created out of nothing. Taken either way, one is lying to a lot of people.

This is but another belief system, yet you who are so intellectual cant seem to see it.
Vj ~ It is not just another, it is the first and the only one on this planet that is in harmony with reasoning, science and conforms to natural laws, and if it is still valid, I am asking what is the purpose of the others if not perpetuating evil?

so the One True God you are saying by all accounts, is the only God in the Vedas, which means you decide that the God of other scriptures are false,
Vj ~ It is obvious that only the intellect guided by the correct knowledge decides that, what have you got to show that it is not? And don't tell me, listening to the heart told you so when it didn't do it for all those who have an heart.

you are no better than the Christians who claim 'their God' is the only true God.
Vj ~ How can they claim otherwise, when Jesus said, "I am the way, life and the truth no one comes to the Father but through me."

Those who still proclaim, my God, your God, or me and mine, are far away from any God, sorry but the veil of ignorance is as much over your eyes as all other's
Vj ~ Or could it be those who claim all religions, even though they blatantly oppose each other, to be from one God are totally dense in ignorance?

Reply to Pam - Date:04-08-05
jacsimo - VJ but why should I respond to your one true God, when I have already responded to this before.
Vj ~ For the third time, are you going to respond to this? You said we all worship the same God, but it is not true at all. The God of the Vedas said that "out of nothing, nothing can come" and the God of Torah, Bible and Quran all says that the universe was created out of nothing. Taken either way, one is lying to a lot of people.

Dialogue 12
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Reply to Pam - Date:04-11-05
vj hope you have a strong cup of tea to hand and sit back and relax. Out of nothing, nothing can come. But there is no such thing in the Universe as nothing, Life fills all space,as we know it, there is only Life One Life is all there is.
Vj ~ I have been sitting back relaxing for the past 25 years since then I knew that there was "so such thing in the Universe as nothing". So since you subscribe to the fact that there is always something in the universe, isn't it obvious now that I have proven many are worshipping false gods who claimed things came out nothing?

Reply to Pam - Date:04-18-05
V.J. you say, haven't you proved that one is wrong, no you haven't proved anything at all. You have not proved that one is lying to a lot of people at all.
Vj ~ Not only have I proven one is lying, but I have proven you to be a very dishonest person. It is quite obvious to me, if one (Vedas) is true, the others (Torah, Bible & Quran) have to be a lie.

Reply to Pam - Date:04-19-05
When you have left the tree of knowlege of good and bad, then I will be the first to congratulate you.
Vj ~ That means I have to agree that both are true which will no doubt leave me an idiot to be congratulated by a bigger idiot. I am sorry being wise is a river of no return for me. Good luck Pam, it was nice debating with you but remember, those who are guided by the heart are usually sitting on their brains.

Reply to CWS - Date:04-25-05
By misinterpreting what the Bible meant by �ex nihilo� you have arrived at a hasty and misguided conclusion that it was not telling the truth.
Vj ~ Hello Craig, My question to you is, what do you really know of the Vedic religion to conclude that I am "hasty and misguided" in not telling the truth? In reality, the truth can only come to those who are impartial in nature, for they are the ones who have no fear of investigating all theories (religious and scientific) to ascertain what is the truth from falsehood. Above all, I am proud to say that I am such an individual.

Pam said �You are no better than the Christians who claim �their God� is the only true God.� and you replied, �How can they claim otherwise, when Jesus said, �I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by Me.� Thanks for understanding we are not being arrogant, but are merely taking Christ at His word.
Vj ~ It is not the word of Christ, for he didn't write anything himself and it is still not the words of a wise man or a messenger of an all-wise God. To begin with, it is an injustice to change the rules in the middle of any game, for it will favor one (Christians) over the other (those who never heard of Christ). We, as humans, even though fallible, don't do it and I can never comprehend an infallible God to doing it.

Although I understand you believe this is the Vedas, to the best of my understanding the Judeo-Christian Scriptures are God�s one true message to mankind.
Vj ~ Well, it isn't much of an understanding at all, especially when you lack the will to investigate other scriptures before coming to such a conclusion. I am in the best position to determine what is the true message for whatever is true must be for all of mankind, in all ages depriving none. And here in simple terms is what I mean, if "Judeo-Christian Scriptures are God�s one true message to mankind" how come so many Greek philosophers were persecuted for disputing the flatness of the earth? Again why were those before Moses deprived of divine revelation - the ten commandments?

Dialogue 13
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Reply to CWS - Date:04-26-05
Did I misunderstand you? Are you saying the Bible IS speaking truth when it said God created the universe out of nothing?
Vj ~ Yes you did misunderstand me, the whole Bible is a big lie and those who follow it are doom to pain and misery and worst for those who preach it.

If I was correct in understanding you to assert the Bible is wrong, what is wrong with me suggesting you have misunderstood the text and pointing out that both the Vedic statement and the Biblical statement are true?
Vj ~ Both statements oppose each other and therefore both cannot be true. It is a law that for a thing to be created, there are 3 causes - an efficient cause, material cause and a common cause (i.e. labor, knowledge, time and space or instrument). There can be no exception to this rule which even an All-perfect God cannot breach.

You claim that Jesus' statement recorded by John (�I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by Me�) is not the word of Christ because Jesus �didn't write anything himself.� So we cannot say they are His words unless He wrote them down Himself? They are NOT His words simply because He was quoted by another? Because he only spoke them, they are NOT His words? Do you apply this rule to everyone?
Vj ~ No, not to everyone, but only to those who claim to meditate on God's behalf or claim to be God.

How would you go about proving He did NOT speak these words 2,000 years ago?
Vj ~ Very simple, God is Just and if anyone is deprived of His instructions, it must be one's own fault and not that of God. Since it was claimed to be made in the Middle East 2000 years ago and the Mayans and Incas only received it only 500 years ago, they were being deprived of it for over 1500 years which is definitely not the work of a merciful and compassionate God.

You said, �you lack the will to investigate other scriptures before coming to such a conclusion.� How did you come to this conclusion about me? I gave you no indication that I was ignorant of other religious beliefs, and since you do not know me, you simply cannot know what I have or have not personally investigated. Wouldn�t you agree? I�d bet you were not even aware that I had been to your website.
Vj ~ You may have been to my site, but the intent was certainly not to seek the truth, otherwise you would have long pointed out its faults. It cannot be denied that to all the religions I have investigated I have not done so constructively.

Reply to Pam - Date:04-26-05
If you dont realise that then you are not the qualified person you think you are to spread Truth of any kind.
Vj ~ One who can readily and rationally define truth is qualified to spread it, meaning that those who spread it without a definition are hypocrites. Also, before undertaking the task I have openly declared the source of my knowledge to be the Vedas, have you declared your source? Even though Craig and I are in disagreement, at least, he is sincere enough in declaring his to be the Bible.

Reply to Omega - Date:04-26-05
Vj, "Which were created 1st?
(a) the Chicken or the
(b) Egg?"

Vj ~ The chicken was created first. Now tell me Richard, "Which were created first?
(a) the tree
(b) seed?

Dialogue 14
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Reply to CWS - Date:04-27-05
No one has ALL the facts, so ALL should foster humility
Vj ~ So have you examined everyone to know that? How can any sensible person make such a statement knowing that he or she is yet to thoroughly examined all philosophical treaties.
Actually it is only one with all the facts who can foster humility because in such position it brings unity and harmony in one thought.

You said �the WHOLE Bible is a big LIE.�
Vj ~ If you are given a glass of milk to drink and were told that there is one drop of poison in it, will you drink it? The purity of divine revelation is much the same. If it is contaminated with only one lie God's attribute of being All-wise and all-perfect comes into question.

All religions have SOME truth to them (even yours)
Vj ~ Then you must know the whole or all truths, otherwise how would you be able to figure out some of it?

so any statement that merely writes off ANY sacred text IN ITS ENTIRETY as �a big lie� is hard to take seriously, and could lead an objective observer to suspect an unreasonable or emotional bias lies behind the accusation.
Vj ~ I hope I have made myself very clear, for if you know who God is, the whole truth is His nature to reveal and not "some truth". The pursuit of truth requires very strict austerity guided by the correct knowledge and as one finds oneself gradually detach from earthly (materialistic) comforts, knowing the truth becomes a reality. Yes, there is one true religion that bears the fruits of the whole truth. Just as the automakers know what maintenance a car requires from the beginning to the end, so too, the God of the Vedas knows all periods of time, to reveal all in the very beginning, depriving none.

Reply to Pam - Date:04-27-05
I am my own authority.
Vj ~ I am my own authority also, but it could not have been without a source knowledge.

I have said that before, yet you dont understand and mistake that for arrogance, it is not.
Vj ~ No, I am not mistaken, it is ignorance to claim an authority without a source.

Read Alice Bailey, Dr Murdo MacDonald Bayne, Madame Blavatsky, Annie Besant, these are a few of the sources that I have read,, and yet, I think for myself, as no book can give you Reality, Truth, that you must find yourself
Vj ~ There must be, if not, why are you still reading? And if you are dependent upon reading alone (void of intellectual reasoning) to give you reality and truth you are indeed a sad case of a loser.

You fail to recognise the God is the Law, and when you work withing God's Law's, you too are like God.
Vj ~ George Bush is President of USA but He is not the law and neither is he above it. The same with God, who is not above the law but sovereign ruler within His laws (laws of nature - the physical, and karma - the spiritual).

Dialogue 15
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Reply to Pam - Date:04-28-05
Hi V.J. I really feel you have not got a clue, that is my honest opinion.
Vj ~ Perhaps if you use your intellect instead of your heart, your "feel" might be different.

You say too, that your are your own authority, but could not have been without a source of knowledge. I presume you mean by that the Vedas are your source of knowledge.
Vj ~ Why should it still be a presumption when I have been making the claim all along? Did I not link my first post to my site declaring my faith and the source?

It is not ignorant to claim an authority without a source, I dont see how you can come to that assupmtion.
Vj ~ Isn't God the source of all that exists, how then can you make any claim denying a source? The source knowledge (revelation ) came from God to earliest of human beings and then passed on through creation, so what we now come to know and create the source knowledge is still that which was given to early man.

Not aware that the Master Jesus read many religious books, are you
Vj ~ There is no account of his life from age 16 - 32, how do you know he wasn't busy reading religious books?

and yet he was God-Realised, his source of authority coming from the Christ within him, not a book that gives you a certain kind of knowlege
Vj ~ I agree with you and look what happened - atrocities (Crusaders, the inquisitions) were committed in the name of Christianity, early Christians were taught the earth was flat. Resurrection of the dead is simply ignorance as it breaches the law of nature. A being dies only once and raising the dead meant some died twice.

No Iam NOT dependtent on reading, and I have said many times here on this thread and other's that scripture or books can not give you reality, nor can they give you Truth. You obviously have not read the other threads here, or you would not have made that remark.
Vj ~ If you had an intellect in use I would have encouraged you to reason, God is the truth and therefore His revelation is the truth and if it is in the form of a book or called scripture why can it not give us the truth?

Are you depentant on the Veda's to give you Reality and Truth?
Vj ~ The rishis got the truth from it and they in turn show us the way. They can only show us the way because as they do, we must make our own effort to realize it through rational study and practice, rather than it being simply handed to us as you claim. Yes, the Vedas is the source of all truths.

I tend to feel that you are the loser and you certainly aren't the wisest chicken running around the block,
Vj ~ It seems I have even opened up your appetite for Kentucky fried chicken. And by the way, if the chicken had any wisdom, many who eat them could have been starving today.

in fact I think you have a very little knowlege that you are stretching out to make your image look wise. It is not wise I have to say.
Vj ~ Then you must be wise, how else would you know who is wise or not?

There is too much intolerance and no love in your posts at all, that tells me a lot about you. You have fallen prey to egoic pride, and pride comes before a fall as the adage goes.
Vj ~ Well what else can you expect when it is the truth that hurts? The truth is you are an idiot and if you are offended then it is for your own good.

You really have said nothing of any importance here, and Iam sure that many are still in the dark with regards the Veda's, You have wasted the opportunity you have had, to bring the Vedic words to a bigger audience if you had really wanted to do. You missed the boat there.
If you are in the dark of the knowledge of the Vedas, it is because you refuse to use the intellect which is a requirement. Out of nothing, nothing can come, it is from the Vedas and yet you support the idea that out of nothing, something can come. You are in the dark because all the idiots are. God has no cure for a fool and there are two reasons why I welcome a dialogue with an idiot - one is, I am wise enough to draw wisdom (nectar) from a fool (poison) and secondly, perhaps someone sensible can read these dialogues and learn the truth by it. So your stupidity is indeed a contribution to the ascertaining of truth, but sadly there is no reward for you in such a state.

Dialogue 16
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Reply to Pam - Date:04-28-05 2006
If you weren't so rude and bad mannered, I would have been eager to search the written word of the Vedas myself,
Vj ~ I am indeed a genius, all I have to do, is be "rude and bad-mannered" to set an idiot on the track to pain and misery - "rude and bad-mannered" cannot hinder the progress of one truly desirous of seeking the truth. What have I got to lose if you chose not to search the written word of the Vedas?

I shall leave you VJ with your intellect intact, and continue on the path of inner wisdom, and as I said before, I do sincerely hope you find the wisdom you are seeking.
Vj ~ I leave you also with your heart intact and hopefully you won't be in need of transplant anytime soon and if you should perhaps they can preserve it for in it lies your wisdom.

If you are your own authority without a source knowledge, why do you need to quote someone else?

Reply to Pam - Date: 200604-29-05
VJ a few posts ago you stated you were your own authority also, yet you use the Vedas as your source of knowledge, that is what you said. Therefore is this not the pot calling the kettle black. You asked me for source, I gave you some sources,
Vj ~ And note, one source, and not some. Divine spiritually has only one source and if you have some that still leaves you an idiot.

Yes, I think so.
Vj ~ You gave up on the intellect a long time ago, so what are you using to "think"?

you obviously just like to feel that you are setting traps for others, when you are spiritually dead yourself. Go and get Life, that will redeem you.
Vj ~ I ended my debate with you a few posts ago, but you still came back for more of what you didn't like "rude and bad-mannered". It shows that the nature of ignorance is indeed misery. It must be a good life for me, since you are the one offended.

Reply to Pam - Date:04-29-05
I will not be replying any more to you, I have said all I want to say, so enjoy your day and as I said before, I do sincerely and genuinely hope you find the wisdom you crave. All the best
Vj ~ Don't get me all wrong Pam, I am convinced you are a woman of deep virtue and there is a lot to say about that, but virtue practiced in ignorance is still ignorance. It is true that the truth hurts and those who are offended by it, will never come to realize it and it is because you are offended you won't be conversing with me again. Take care and may your heart never fail you

Reply to Omega - Date:04-29-05
"We will wait for one, be he a God or an inspired man to instruct us in religious duties and to take away the darkness from our eyes."
Vj ~ Very true and HERE he is!!

"The Vedas being eternal are free from any historical references"
Vj ~ Do you really understand what this quote means?

"Revelation is a communication of something, which the person to whom the thing is revealed did not know before. For if I have done a thing, or seen it done, it needs no revelation to tell me, I have done or seen it done nor enable me to tell it or write it. Revelation, therefore, cannot be applied to anything done upon earth, of which man is himself actor or witness and consequently all the historical part of the bible which is almost the whole of it, is not within the meaning and compass of the word revelation and therefore is not the word of god." Thomas Paine.
You seem to be sitting on your brains as all Christians do.
How about the last question? Was it the tree that was created first or the seed?

Dialogue 17
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Reply to Omega - Date:05-02-05
For the LORD God says "Come let us reason this out together"
Vj ~ If you knew how to reason, you would have responded to all my rebuttals. But if Christians need a lesson on reasoning an atheist is a good example to follow. It is better to be an atheist than to be a hypocrite.

The proverbs of Solomon son of David king of Israel For attaining wisdom and discipline
Vj ~ Solomon was an adulterer and had hoards of concubines like his father before him. First of all such an act of sensualism is not the trait of a wise man and secondly, had he any discipline at all he would have been faithful, to begin with one wife instead of having so many and still cheated on them. The best teachers are wisemen who teach not only by learning but by example.

Reply to World of Peace - Date:06-26-05, 02
First of all, I would like to address the issue of the prophet's of God being adulterers. This is only found in Christianity, and not in Islam.
Vj ~ Muhammad himself was not only a polygamist (9 wives, one his daughter-in-law) and an adulterer (over 20 concubines), but worst, he was a pedophile. Abu Dawud's Hadith is the third most respected Hadith in Islam. Aisha said,

"The Apostle of Allah (Muhammad) married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old." Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, #2116
I believe that God has sent many prophets and messengers to mankind, all with the same message, but different laws which fit their societies. This one message was to worship him alone and not to associate anything with him. After the arrival of each prophet, people tend to lose the guidance and pollute the truth which was sent down to them. After people start to worship false gods, another messenger is sent down to correct them and guides them again....The answer to that is simple: indeed guidance must remain, that is the Quran, the verbatim word of God, it has not and will not be changed and that was a promise given to us by God.
Vj ~ If this is the case where messengers are being sent down because of truth being corrupted then the Quran itself will become obsolete at some time in the future also. But if the claim is that "it has not and will not be changed" the huge question is, why did God, being All-perfect, send what cannot be changed now, instead of in the very beginning. In Islam, there are divisions (Shite, Sunnis, etc.) also, which shows that even though "it has not and will not change" it is nowhere close to uniting Muslims much less bringing harmony to the world.

Dialogue 18
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Reply to World of Peace - Date:06-26-05
As I said I was sharing the Islamic point of view on this topic, even though I found some replies offensive, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and can express it freely.
Vj ~ If we are free to express why are you offended? Islam does not encourage free speech, it is the reason fatwas are issued against those (Rushdie, Anwar Sheik, Ali Sina, Tasleema and many others) who speak out against it.

The issue of the prophet (peace be upon him) marrying Aisha (may god be pleased with her) at a young age, this issue may be controversial and strange to everyone today. One must put things in to context.
Vj ~ It is in context with the moral standards of our world today where sexual relations with a minor is a crime, meaning the Quran which " has not and will not change" is not for all ages especially this modern era.

Cultural differences are a factor, societies back then did not find it abhorrent for such a thing to take place, Arabs and non-Arabs. Even the enemies of the prophet at his time did not criticize him with this issue, and they were looking for the smallest things to do so.
Vj ~ There must have been a lot of unrighteousness among societies back then which would have necessitated the need of a messenger to change things for the better, but when the messenger was guilty of the same immoral actions, how could they (the Arabs and non-Arabs or the enemies) have found adultery, polygamy and pedophilia "abhorrent"?

and he married mainly divorcees.
Vj ~ Waging war (Islam) resulting in men being kill leaving widows is not what any sensible person would call helping. Muhmmad had nine wives does it not mean that when he died he alone made 9 women widows? Furthermore, how is he helping when he asked his (adopted) son to divorce his wife so that he can marry her? Aisha was only six years old when she was married to him.

Islam is not what Muslims do; it's what they are supposed to do.
Vj ~ Well my friend, you can keep on dreaming, because Islam's past 1400 years of violent history is showing no sign of letting up. Whatever they are supposed to do, the instructions perhaps lie in some other scripture but certainly not the Quran.

Sects in Islam or any another religion comes to exist because of differences in religious opinion, or because of power and money, which goes back to the corruption issue.
Vj ~ The cause of differences of religious opinions is ignorance due to the revealed texts that cannot put a standard universal definition to what truth is supposed to be.

God is the most wise and He is the only one who knows the wisdoms behind things, all we can do is try to understand and see what they are, this can be done through being sincere and contemplating the issues and studying them.
Vj ~ This is my point if you cannot see "the wisdom behind things" as God does, by your scripture, shouldn't you be investigating the others until you find one that does?

Whether guidance comes in a corruptible or incorruptible form, our duty is to follow it.
Vj ~ Guidance from the Supernatural can never be "corruptible" and it becomes "corruptible" because of ignorance it is our duty to seek out the "incorruptible" form by reasoning guided by the correct knowledge.

Dialogue 19
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Reply to sososo - Date:06-27-05
Very interesting topic. When you say "a standard universal definition is required", this will also be. As the WTO and NWO continue to gain the power to rule the world in a totalitarian state. Even if does not come to be in the near future, our walk on earth is short and the strong beliefs we each have now will be validated when our paths end.
Vj - My belief is already validated for it is a faith that is in harmony with reasoning, science and natural laws. Whatever destruction due to unrighteousness lies ahead confirm with natural laws. The idea is not to save the world, since all things finite must come to an end, but save yourself first and then assist the few who might have the strongest desire to follow.

Pam - Date:06-27-05
But Iam now anxious to learn more from you and your Muslim faith, to help me better understand.
Vj - It won't be enough to understand Islam if you are not prepared to do your own study of the Quran and the hadiths.

Re the marriage that V.J. talked about and you responded with a reply, I think we do need to remember that different cultures exist, and even back thousand's of year, cultures were different. We over here would think nothing of a arranged marriage in our Royal Family, and even going back to the middle ages, the betrothal of a royal prince from one monarchy would be betrothed in marriage to a princess, say, in another royal family, and the age they married would be as young as 12 - 14yrs, that was the common things in these days and no one would view it as wrong in anyway. But now times are changed, and I think it a bit late in the day to go back and make a judgement about a prophet or a member of a royal household, because that judgement can only be made throught the eyes of today.
Vj - As I said before try to use your intellect and not your heart. It is not the same with those who are not of the divine in nature who commit acts of immoral actions as those of whom are supposed to be of divine in nature. It is obvious that if the past immoral conduct of the prophet did nothing for past societies, it cannot be the cure for any present-day society and if we have become more civilized the cause has to be some truth far higher than that revealed by Quran. The Quran like the Bible has two sides, one is which is the aspiration of World_of_peace and the other the opposite as that of the extremists. It wouldn't matter which way we look at it, it is still the fault of these ideologies (books) rather than that of the extremists.

Reply to World of Peace - Date:06-27-05
You know what, we can go on and on about each other's beliefs. I do not believe it will bring any good for us or anyone else.If you do not like Islam, you have a free will and you are able to choose the path which you believe is the truth, because there is no compulsion in religion.
Vj - It will bring good if a soul is impartial and desirous in making the effort to seek the truth by investigating all religions. I have done so and it is not a matter of liking or disliking, it is a matter of which is false and which is true. I found yours and all the others to be false.

I am not interested in a debate;
Vj - So are you going against the instructions of the Quran which advocates settling issues through argument (Cow:111)?

Do not as Him as a Christian or as a Muslim or as a Jew, or Hindu etc.., ask Him as a neutral human being who believes that there is only One God, the Creator, the Most Merciful.
Vj - According to Islam even Allah is not neutral - The Disputer, LVIII: 20, declares that non-Muslims are Satan's party but the Muslims are God's party.

Dialogue 20
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Reply to World of Peace - Date:06-28-05
...even though I found some replies offensive....
Vj ~ Isn't this a good reason to change the 'unchangeable' Quran? I mean who wants to be unhappy (offended) all their lives in spite of such a book made complete and unchangeable?

To each his own and on the Day of Judgment people will realize if they were in error or not.
Vj ~ If there is a "Day of Judgement" where souls are rewarded or punished, it will be a grave injustice and can never be the work of a Just and Compassionate God. Already in this world, there are many who are rewarded (rich or good health ) and many more are being punished (poverty or diseased), who have judged these souls, if not God? We are fallible but yet we do not send people to prison and judge them at the end of their sentence, why would an infallible God do it?

One piece of advice to everyone: man must depend on God; it is God who guides people. If you are of any faith, I recommend you pray and ask God to guide you, and ask Him to show you the straight path, it is He who guides.
Vj ~ I hope people are sensible enough not to listen to you. If we must ask God to guide and show us the "straight path" what is the need for His revelation which is for that purpose. This shows your Quran is no good a guide that you must turn directly to your God, but since I know he is false it is the reason you, like all the others who follow false doctrines are not getting any closer to the divine.

Reply to Pam - Date:06-28-05
V.J. seems like you haven't learned much here at all.
Vj ~ If you had in brains at all, you would have noticed that I have already done my learning before coming to this board and if I were here to learn this would be the last place I would come. What have you learned to come to his defense when you know nothing of his faith?

You are still attacking the other person's viewpoint an belief system.
Vj ~ It is the nature of wise men to attack what is false and enlighten mankind to what is true. Unfortunately, many, including yourself don't know when it is done for their own good. Isn't it a fact the truth hurts - �Let him say what is good for another even though it may offend.� Light of Truth or if you do know of any other way, please let me know.

There doesnt appear to be any tolerance for other's at all with you.
Vj ~ Why should there be when souls such as his and yours are at stake of facing so much pain and misery?

You have your beloved Vedas, well that's fine, but at least allow other's to choose their own believes, that is the correct way to behave I feel.
Vj ~ Well that's it, it is just your feelings, you don't know what is true or false, how can you help the weak? In your weak state, how would you know whether I am more compassionate to their souls or not, when you can't define what is truth or even know that the Vedas is the true source of all knowledge, sciences and ethics and morals known to mankind?

Now you say to World of Peace that because he feels offended that should make him change, why on earth should it.
Vj ~ Very simple, because no one desires pain and misery. When you have come to accept a belief, it should bring you perpetual happiness, but if it leads to continuous unhappiness what sense is there to continue with it, in spite of him praying five times a day? On the other hand, those who come in contact with me should consider themselves fortunate that they don't have to go very far looking for the path to true knowledge.

If we were so easily moved to change our beliefs or even knowings, because someone has said something that has 'offended' us, then surely even you can see that the belief held and sop easily rescinded is not worth tuppence.
Vj ~ I am not saying to reject completely what you believe in, but be impartial in investigating other belief systems as I have done, how else would you know that yours is true or false. One should only accept or reject after knowing what is true or false. Unfortunately, I know that not all of us have the inclination to strive for this truth, compulsion being so, but it will always be the duty of wise men to continue its dissemination to the end.

The soul itself is not offended, it does not display these kind of reactionary syptoms, it is the ego, the mortal mind, as I have said before, which is liable to frequent changing of beliefs and opinion. But the 2 latter things are not the Truth themselves.
Vj ~ It is the soul that reaps what you sow, so yes the worship of a false god is equal to the commission of thousand crimes. You are the one with the ego here since you are busy using your heart, your intellect has nothing else to do as you can't use knowledge anywhere else.

You are still operating from you ego, or else you would not attack everyone it seems who has chosen to contribute to this thread. Tis you I truly hope other's will not follow, and end up with a attitude not far off being that of the bigot, no offence meant.
Vj ~ Had you read the many dialogues I have hand with so many you would know that nothing offensive ever bothered me and if this can be the result of the wisdom I have I don't see how it could be so terribly wrong for anyone else.

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"Just as color cannot be perceived by ears, nor sound by eyes; in like manner, the Eternal Supreme Spirit is not perceptible to the senses. He can only be seen by a pure soul through the purity of heart, acquisition of knowledge and the practice of yoga. Just as one cannot reap the advantages of knowledge without acquiring it, likewise the Supreme Spirit cannot be seen without the practice of yoga and gaining the highest knowledge." The Light of Truth
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