Responses:
Dialogue 21 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: harryll - June 28, 1999
Harryll: You guys are helping VJ by always posing questions that involve totally speculative guesses or thoughts, ie, the conditions before creation... Vj ~ On the contrary, they are helping themselves by being inquisitive by asking intelligent questions. Draygomb may not be a scientist, but so far, unlike you, he has displayed a remarkable sense of understanding in threading his ideas very carefully and tactfully.
Harryll: VJ is obviously totally wrong based on the physical evidence available today to anyone,
Vj ~ And you are obviously a jackass born to be a burden to your soul. The physical evidence available today will be rejected in the future, as it happened in the past. These evidences are not standing as your science keep 'improving'.
Harryll: there really is no way that he can support his views,
Vj ~ And what jackass do you know look for support of views? I declared that evolution of man from a lower creature is a breach to the immutable laws of nature. What do you, as an idiot, know of these laws?
Harryll: he must resort to attempts at discrediting science and playing quasi-scientist to sound as if he was even remotely interested in ANYTHING about science...
Vj ~ The quasi-scientists are those who rely on an evidence today that is subjected to changes in the future.
Harryll: Fortunately, the truth always comes out in the end
Vj ~ Unfortunately a jackass will never know the truth not even in the end. Your end is going to come and gone like many in past, without knowing the truth.
Harryll: and VJ's position and theories will be shown for what they are, pure bunk....
Vj ~ What good will it be to you, since you won't be around to witness it as bunk?
Harryll: It's not that most don't already know that, it's just interesting to see how long he can remain as deluded as he is....
Vj ~ This truth has been around since the beginning of creation and will be to the end, if you and others don't know of it, it is due to ignorance. Scientists don't even know the source of science what else will they be able to prove?
Dialogue 22 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: harryll - June 29, 1999
Harryll: The reasoning that VJ is using should be apparent but maybe it should be discussed more plainly... Vj ~ Very true, but how could it when you have made no studies of my religion (my site)? How can there be a mutual and sensible discussion when you are ignorant of my faith?
Harryll: He is simply saying that "God did it" is the answer,
Vj ~ And it makes a lot of sense too, until you can refute it intelligently. However, you can't since you know nothing of my God.
Harryll: but the real question was HOW not WHO...
Vj ~ And how was it never important to know WHO (Henry Ford) and only HOW the car was made?
Harryll: Science embodies and increasing body of very real and provable knowledge..
Vj ~ How can it be embodying when it has no source and furthermore, whatever results it achieves now will be discredited later.
Harryll: VJ prefers to only look at the boundaries of science knowledge and use them to discredit all of the rest of science...
Vj ~ Science created these boundaries and is unknowingly discrediting itself.
Harryll: But what does he offer in it's place, he falls back and simply says "God did it"....
Vj ~ Better God (some intelligent Being), than some dumb ape in the past.
Harryll: That never really was the question, HOW is the question and on that issue he offers NOTHING toward answering it....
Vj ~ Maybe I answered it, but you being an idiot it didn't make any sense?
Harryll: The danger in VJ's efforts to promote his religious beliefs is that he discredits EVERYTHING,
Vj ~ Only those things foolish and if that includes you, so be it.
Harryll: all knowledge as inconsequential and wants all to believe that he alone can redefine and explaim all reality through his "source" of wisdom..
Vj ~ Well if wisdom (true knowledge) is not the source of all things what else could it be? If you have got no answer for the source of science, ethics and morals, life and matter, then why can't you agree that I am way ahead of you?
Harryll: ....He wants us to believe that if science,(Mankind) doesn't know EVERYTHING, then it really knows NOTHING and he alone has all of the answers...
Vj ~ So far on this board no one else has proven otherwise. So until then it makes all the sense in the world to accept it as truth. Tell me who, except an idiot like you, would want to know the truth sometime in the future where it would be of no benefit to him or others who have already left this world. Again if truth was ever denied to a human, it must be his/her own fault and not that it was never available through science.
Dialogue 23 Back to contents Rebuttal from: harryll - July 04, 1999
Harryll: Hello Vj...Let's talk a little more about what it is you want of those reading your postings... Vj ~ I have accomplished that already - you being an idiot scientist.
Harryll: When I said that you are interested in domination of thought, that means that you want to be the filter or judge of all realities and truths for the rest of humanity...
Vj ~ If that was my aim, it seems I am doing a great job, thanks to you for your stupid comments.
Harryll: It is your religion that you use to claim the "authority" that gives you right to do such things...
Vj ~ It is not a claim, it is a fact, only if you were willing to take the time to read and contradict.
Harryll: Since you are obviously at odds with reality from the start, I can well imagine the extent that you could go off base given time...
Vj ~ I am at odds with your science, not reality, since it was not here from the beginniing for all of mankind.
Harryll: For anyone unfortunate enough to follow you, in the end he would know nothing of history, reality and truth, you would have replaced them with your own created versions of all of these things...
Vj ~ History is needed as evidence only in the absence of true knowledge and it can only go back so far which is neither reality nor the whole truth.
Harryll: What you fear in science is the fact that it is not "controllable" and it does not answer to any one person or group...
Vj ~ Of course it is controlled by scientists, because these idiots say what we want to hear and when there are diputes, it is solely among themselves which the layman has no clue as to what is going on or what is going to happen next. Harryll: It really can't be minipulated, although many try...
Vj ~ Maybe, but you scientists are doing a great job of manipulating the layman since they have no hope of finding any truth until the end.
Harryll: Science's only goal is TRUTH and, like TRUTH, it also cannot be denied...
Vj ~ What good is its goal to you and those in the past, who have already gone without knowing it?
Harryll: In the end, TRUTH pervails...Thank God.....
Vj ~ Very good idiot, now tell me again what benefit is this 'TRUTH' in the end, to you now and those in the past.
Harryll: You, on the other hand, are already lost in your pious dillusions and obsessions, TRUTH is not your quest....
Vj ~ What's new, like all the other idiots I have come across, who would reject truth without examining the tenets of the Vedic religion.
Harryll:- July 05, 1999
Harryll: Hello again VJ...Those are very revealing comments...
Vj ~ So is the Vedas, but what does an idiot know of revealed knowledge, that it is not self-acquired but can only be learnt from others?
Harryll: You say "I am at odds with your science, not reality, since it was not here from the beginning for all of mankind."...How could science, man's inquisition of nature, "be there" since it was before his time...
Vj ~ Well had you done some reading, instead of letting your ego "rant and rave", you would have learnt that the Vedas is the source of all knowledge known to man. It is eternal and is revealed to man in beginning of every creation. It is only knowledge and can only serve man when they apply it to their daily life. All things has its pre-existence in nature which later manifest as the conditions (karma) warrant it.
Harryll: You use this as the excuse that it is impossible to learn anything for Mankind through science, an ALL OR NOTHING silly justification to simply impose your unsupportable thoughts instead….What kind of reality is that.???
Vj ~ How could it be when the source of all sciences are the Vedas? Science is in trouble because it wants to go it alone. It must be in harmony with the Vedas and then all truths can be known to man, in his time, rather than at sometime in the future. The most effective use of science must be prevention, not finding a cure or satisfying curiosity.
Dialogue 24 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: harryll - July 06, 1999
Harryll: Hello again VJ...There are a couple of obvious things that you should be aware of... Vj ~ Am I lucky it is only a couple, since you are unaware of so many in science?
Harryll: If your "source" had all of the answers it has already had a very long time to do prove it's merit but hasn't...
Vj ~ How could it when even a scientist is an idiot? This knowledge is simple not for fools and it shows how long fools have been around.
Harryll: If it was as you say, we would ALL know it to be true by now and everyone reading it would have been converted...
Vj ~ Not if they are all fools like you. A fool never wants to know what is truth because of his ego and I am afraid the whole world has become like you. This proves that my religion is true since it conforms with natural laws where progression is downwards. In the beginning all were wise since they accepted the Vedic religion and coming to the end all will become fools by rejecting it. What more proof do you need?
Harryll: Of course, the same holds true for the Bible...
Vj ~ It is not the same with the Bible or Q'uran, the numbers in Christianity or Islam are growing at an alarming rate, this opposes the law, progression downwards, while true religion is declining.
Harryll: Can you tell me ONE THING that your religion has contributed to the knowledge of the world around us, give us something that science couldn't do and disputes...
Vj ~ I have mentioned many times before but your idiotic mind is still buried in some apes' backside. As long as it is there nothing I say would make a difference. The Vedas hold the answer for the source of matter, life, language, etc. Matter is eternal and is the material cause of the Universe. Can your science dispute it? You have not so far made any rebuttals to any of my questions yet, and I really don't expect one now. This is what makes you a fool rejecting truth, only wanting to discuss what is limited to your ignorance.
Harryll: If you have ALL of the answers, that should be no problem for you...
Vj ~ And where have I denied you an answer so far in this dialogue?
Harryll: I'm not asking for a sample of Moon rock or anything like that...
Vj ~ Even if I did, it would make no sense to a jackass like you anyway, and as stupid as you are, perhaps if it is green (like grass) you may want to eat it.
Harryll: Oh, by the way, when DO you think that your "scientists" will be walking on the Moon.????
Vj ~ The day you renounce being an imbecile. Even today, man's walk on the moon is discounted as a hoax and with very good proofs. The rishis were greater scientist than all of you idiots, since they knew more of the cosmic universe. Had you idiots been acquainted with this knowledge billions of dollars, would not have been wasted on space explorations. Millions of children would not have been starving to death and above all our environment would have been perfect for human habitation instead causing harm to us. Rishis knew all things created by God are useful, and that there are endless galaxies with human habitation or other life forms. It is a ridiculous endeavor (spending billions) to seek out the habitat of other planetary systems when we are in immediate danger of loosing our own.
Dialogue 25 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: harryll - July 12, 1999
Harryll: In my last post, I asked for some examples of the "science" that you want to believe in that is so superior to the science that we all are aware of today... Vj ~ Did you as a scientist find your examples by asking for them or did you do your own investigations? You seem to have a knock for ignorance since you have not directly respond to anyone of my rebuttals so far.
Harryll: There is no chance that your rishis "science" will ever find any medical cures
Vj ~ The first and foremost priority of the rishis' science is not to find a cure, but to prevent, which a jackass like you don't understand. Prevention is better than cure which obviously makes the science of prevention superior to that of cure.
Harryll: or travel to some distant planet or do anything else for that matter...
Vj ~ It is when you don't know that you seek to investigate or travel, it is called curiosity. The same applies here, when science is superior, the cosmic universe is already known to the Rishis so why would they want to travel? The preparation they make by acquiring this wisdom is to enable them to roam the universe in complete bliss after this physical life, learning more of nature and the universe. In the meantime the science you know dies with you and so is your hope of rebirth as a human being for a long time.
Harryll: If you were to have your way, all authority for science and any other aspect of life, would be in the hands of religious "clerics" like yourself...
Vj ~ Better yet, if I had my way you would not have been a jackass as your science has made you.
Harryll: In your last posting to me you simply dismissed the need for any science on the pretext of worrying about feeding children...
Vj ~ It is obvious that science and false religions have failed the starving children of the world. What more reason does any intelligent being need to dismiss your science?
Harryll: I am certain that you will always find some pretext to deny reality of any kind...
Vj ~ I am only denying a jackass's reality of a scientific world that brought more misery than good to mankind. If it is not a polluted environment (ozone), it is starving child (Africa); if it is not nuclear holocaust (Hiroshama), it is human holocaust (Jews); and if it is not ignorance (false dogmas), it is pain and suffering (lost souls).
Harryll: The societies that exist under clerics in nations like Afghanistan and Iran are perfect examples of your goals in life, total authoritarian rule over all aspects of life, and all of this justified on religious grounds...
Vj ~ I wish you could see your donkey ego as the impediment to good reasoning - this true religion of the Vedas never feared the advancement of science, nor was it guilty of terrors of the Inquisition, barbarity, slavery and other atrocities. It never shed the blood of a Galileo, a Copernicus or a Bruno.
Harryll: Those societies are ruled by men (clerics) who know nothing of science, economics, life or even reality...
Vj ~ True, the same as a jackass scientist whose reality is to find a cure to save a few of aids or cancer while millions are dying of simple starvation.
Harryll: The sad state of life in these societies is because democracy was abolished by those who instead impose their own rule, claiming it to be from God...
Vj ~ The sad reality is that your sciences haven't found a cure for that either.
Harryll: They get into authoritative position to do such things by claiming that all who oppose them, oppose God...Sound familiar.?????..
Vj ~ But then again they are neither intelligent enough to know you are jackass as they are, nor their religion is as false as your science is.
Harryll: I'm certain that you will rationalize that these "clerics" are of a different (and incorrect) religion and that yours will be different.....
Vj ~ What good would that do you or them, if I am the only one doing the rationalizing?
Harryll: In any event, your goals are to restore life to what you think that it was centuries ago in your perfect society...
Vj ~ And all seemed possible until I ran into a jackass like you. Now I don't have to wonder how many more are out there.
Harryll: To you, all knowledge and learning of Mankind over the last few centuries is totally without merit and you would scrap it for "rishis", (or YOUR version of rishis)....
Vj ~ If it has merit, why are you an idiot? Where there are merits in knowledge and learning mankind are free of ignorance, diseases, crimes, wars, hatred, poverty and destitution. Aren't these good reasons to scrap it?
Harryll: Your delusion is absolutely incredible to witness, you have totally abandoned all reason and truth...
Vj ~ Incredible! A jackass repeating himself like a parrot . At least I had "all reason and truth" to begin with, but I can't say the same for you since you never and still haven't, and hoping that it lies somewhere in the future.
Dialogue 26 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: michele8466 - July 05, 1999
Michele: another bullshit cult basically.......,I read the link posted "religion of vedas", that has been insistently suggested....... Vj ~ What a gift you have acquired, reading.
Michele: not impressed....
Vj ~ Only shows how much you lack reasoning. A good place to start.
Michele: another bullshit cult basically.......,
Vj ~ It is exactly what it is supposed to be, to a cow-brain who eats bulls.
Michele: signed...Just another "fool"
Vj ~Very fitting, compulsion being so. Sadly, there is no cure for foolishness.
Michele: I would think one as knowledgeable as your self would be better able to convince us fools and idiots of your supreme ideas.
Vj ~ Even the Supreme God of my supreme ideas cannot cure a fool, so why would I even attempt to try?
Michele: Calling people names had never taught humans anything , now has it, all great and knowing one?
Vj ~ It is the way the Supreme One has taught me to distinguished fools from those who truly seek truth. You still have a chance to opt for the latter or you are free to remain where you are. If you didn't know you were a fool before now, then you certainly have been taught something.
Michele: You, my friend are the foolish idiot who is just another cult participant. Party on......
Vj ~ I see it didn't take you very long to stoop to such 'lows', but contrary to your ignorance it is of no bother to the wise.
Dialogue 27 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: samtzu - July 12, 1999
Sam: So, while Hata increases flexability, Krea increases inflexability? Vj ~ Since its result is presently your mental state, then it must be wrong.
Sam: Slavery, as we know, takes two. The slave must allow the master to have control of his or her life. The master and the slave are slaves to each other.
Vj ~ The cause of slavery is ignorance a product of evolution and false religion.
Sam: The best way to avoid it is to play a separate game. If there are no masters, how could there be slavery? If all is understood, what is the need of a teacher? (Sound of whistling, as sam wanders off into the woods.)
Vj ~ Masters are those who are controlled by their ego and there are no shortages of such men in science and false religion. True religion is the only cure.
Sam: Then those who are no longer "Followers of Ego" are practicing true religion?
Vj ~ Obviously!
Sam: Or is there another way to ignore the ego? Just curious. sambhava
Vj ~ To a fool he has no ego, so being a fool is another way of ignoring the ego. Everyone has an ego, but only wisdom can humble it.
Sam: So.... being a master is the same as being a fool? It sounds Taoist..... almost.
Vj ~ Sounds completely foolish but what else can I expect coming from a fool. A master humbles it while a fool ignores it.
Sam: By the way, have you humbled your own ego?
Vj ~ The point is not if I have humbled my ego or not, but how would a fool recognize it if I told him that I did?
Michele: Sam, Harry and Rev.....hi guys! I quit posting here since we are obviously dealing with a nut case.......
Vj ~You will have to make it clearer on what you mean by "quit posting here" since you are still posting. Fatal attraction for a nut case?
Michele: but I do so enjoy his rantings.....lol..
Vj ~ So sweet of you! So why don't you want the others to enjoy themselves too?
Michele: ...I would suggest not posting to him, you wont get anything relevant from him,
Vj ~ Why is relevancy necessary when you are enjoying it anyway?
Michele: and he wont bother to give you a mature, intelligent answer about the topic that he made the board about...
Vj ~ Why should I when you enjoy it better being an idiot?
Michele: Makes no sense to me, he starts a board and hasn’t said actually discussed one thing yet.
Vj ~ Really, how come then you know who are fools, idiots and imbeciles?
Michele: I think he has no life other than sitting on the pc and making an "all knowing" ass out of himself.
Vj ~ Why would you care if you are enjoying it?
Michele: Dont torture yourselves guys, you are imbeciles, idiots and fools........VJ said so.........and we are all too stupid to get it! LOL>.....
Vj ~ What can be worst when an all-knowing ass can torture fools, idiots and imbeciles?
Michele: Have a great day! Nice to see you around the boards, Rev!! Michele
Vj ~ You too Michele, I am so glad that I can bring some joy to your foolish miserable life.
Dialogue 28 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: samtzu - July 14, 1999
Sam: Vj-The point is not if I have humbled my ego or not, but how would a fool recognize it if I told him that I did?
Sam: Great dodge!! Vijai, have you ever thought of Pro-footbal?
Vj ~ No, but I did give some thought of becoming a GM!
Sam: I haven't seen a evasion like that since Earl Campbell retired!
Vj ~ Make sense, another great fool! You should be living in my world, you would see them everyday.
Sam: So.........? Won't your ego let you answer the question?
Vj ~ My ego is willing but your ego to remain a fool is stronger. I must admit that I cannot penetrate such ignorance. You win!
Sam: - July 15, 1999 Sam:Words are simply that...... words. Symbols.
Vj ~ If words are simply that how come you are offended by them?
Sam: The perception behind the words is always different.
Vj ~ Not when they are in harmony with reasoning and guided by the correct knowledge.
Sam: Communication is always corrupt, Vijai. Even yours.
Vj ~ This is why we must seek the correct method of reasoning to know what is true or false, since what we read and even the teachers can be corrupted.
Sam: I have been to your homepage several times, but reading the words has not clicked me into enlightenment.
Vj ~ How could it when you are still in a fool's mode. Enlightenment does not come by reading alone, but by practice (communion or contemplation of what has been read).
Sam: Perhaps a genuine dialog...... not a tit for tat give and take...... would benefit me. Perhaps not. Will you take the chance?
Vj ~ My dialogue has been genuine from the very start, perhaps you are not ready. You claimed to have read something and don't understand it, but yet you haven't ask a question. What are you waiting for, a push start? Know that when you can overcome the hurdles of insult or offensive language that you are ready for enlightenment.samtzu - July 19, 1999
Sam: Well, like I said, words are symbolic, as you well know, and it is the meaning behind the symbols that hold the offence.
Vj ~ Then if your religion cannot cure you of such symbols which brings unhappiness, what is the purpose of religion?
Sam: But, then again, as you have figured out, if I was genuinely offended, I wouldn't keep coming back here day after day.
Vj ~ Could it be that you are genuinely ready to receive the correct knowledge? If you are, then why not begin here and probably you will find the right questions.
Sam: Well, I have been saying for several years now that the problem with most people is not that they have the wrong answers, its that they have the wrong questions.
Vj ~ The questions are never the problem, it is those who are giving the answers.
Sam: It looks like I need to find the right question.
Vj ~ Well you know where to look, but so far I have no problem with your questions. One must first acquire knowledge of matter, after that, the soul and only then one will be able to know who is truly God.
Sam: Honestly, I don't know what it is right now, but I am willing to look for it and ask you. Until then, I'll keep dropping in for my daily insult. Live in Joy, Brother Vijai. sam
Vj ~ I am glad you are happy, then you won't mind reading the link I provide you above. So get started.
Dialogue 30 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: harryll - July 13, 1999
Harryll: One of the most revealing of VJ's comments, a continuing theme, is "who taught the first man" (or ape)... Vj ~ The revealed comment, is yet be refuted, not that I expect an answer from an idiot.
Harryll: What is revealing is the strange idea that all knowledge must be simply passed down from someone who is all knowledgeable...
Vj ~ Why is it strange when it continues to be a daily function (schools) before our very own eyes?
Harryll: It wasn't Thomas Edison’s father who told him about light bulbs...
Vj ~ And I am quite sure it was not your father who taught you science either. But the fact is that someone did. If not, it would not have been difficult for an ape or Tarzan to invent the light bulb.
Harryll: Real knowledge in the real world is the fruit of many people,
Vj ~ And those real people were not half-man half-ape, they were the Rishis of yore who went to the length of translating this philosophy for our weakened intellect.
Harryll: it is the collection of wisdom and understanding, that come from many, not just a few singled out as "Divinely inspired" with all knowledge...
Vj ~ Very true, but who did the first man collected his wisdom from to pass it on, as others later did?
Harryll: VJ promises that he has the answer for all of Man's problems but refuses to give examples of HOW, or examples of WHERE his ideas have already done all of this...
Vj ~ A wise man never makes promises since he knows that even God cannot cure a fool. My examples or ideas are not like your science where they are disputed over and over, but lies in the personal endeavor of the individual who truly makes an effort to seek it.
Harryll: Mankind is struggling to make life better and has made great progress since the time in history that you suggest is ideal...
Vj ~ What can be called progress when it (world) is riddled with adversities of all kinds, incurable diseases, wars, etc.?
Harryll: The fact that the world is not "perfect" (as if it ever could be), is that the physical world is not perfect...
Vj ~ Maybe it is not perfect, but what is your science explanation of a perfect world? If you don't know, then how would you know how to make the world a perfect one.
Harryll: Land is not perfectly cultivatable everywhere, weather is not perfect everywhere but Mankind can get around these natural problems when given the opportunity and time...
Vj ~ And when millions are cut down before and in their prime what oppurtunity and time do your science have for them? Would you be the scientist to tell them that they are making a valuable sacrifice (test) for future generations to come? Can you guarantee them that after this generation science can make it perfect for their grandchildren?
Harryll: To make progress in doing these things, he must avoid being sidelined by screwballs who have their own ideas and agendas that have no basis of fact or reality behind them...
Vj ~ Very true and these screwballs 'went' to the moon and Mars and yet millions are dying needlessly. Where did the human race benefited from the billions spent, except having millions glued to their television set forgetting for the moment of those who are presently dying of aids and starvation while science brags of its advancement.
Harryll: "Science" is the collection of Man's knowledge, the work of millions of people over many generations,
Vj ~ And what benefit was it to those millions since science haven't found the truth yet?
Harryll: you VJ of course think that it is all bunk and you are all knowledgeable knowing everything...
Vj ~ Well of course I will be the one to know everything since you are steadfastly busy maintaining the status of a jackass.
Harryll: It is you VJ who should show that what he says is true by giving specific examples of exactly HOW and WHERE we can see evidence that you are correct...
Vj ~ I could, but what wise man would want to prove himself to a jackass. I mean after all these many responses and rebuttals, one would tend to think something would have made some sense to you by now.
Harryll: We all know and can see what science and reason have accomplished in this world, now show us what YOURS has done...
Vj ~ Your science makes you think, act, read and probably walking like a jackass and until you reject it, you would not be able to see the accomplishments of Vedic wisdom.
Harryll: You have always sidetracked the issue by claiming that science and Man's enlightenment are the causes of the worlds woes...
Vj ~ You can't even quote me right, it is the infidelity, impiousness and imprecision of science and superstition, tyranny and barbarism of false religions that are the cause of pain and misery.
Harryll: The truth is, it hasn't had the opportunity to be used everywhere because ignorance and superstition have always been the hurdle...You are a perfect example of both of these...
Vj ~ The truth is that science haven't found any truth yet, so how would a scientist know what is truth. True, ignorance, superstition and now science is a hurdle to true religion. You are a perfect example of such a barrier.
Dialogue 31 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: michele8466 - July 15, 1999 Vj ~ By the badge No. 8466 you must be member of NYPD. Anyway I glad that you are still around, maybe there is some hope for you after all.
Michele: I do believe that VJ is running out of his infinitely wise words......
Vj ~ Again it is only a belief with no reasoning.
Michele: he is slowing down on the responses.......
Vj ~ Either that, or I am becoming wiser and the latter only I would know.
Michele: not quite as colorful as they could be.......
Vj ~ I never said I was an artist.
Michele: perhaps he needs to reach for his "supreme whatever" and enhance his knowledge of the English language.
Vj ~ Better to be wise than an idiot with an "enhance" knowledge of the English language. Michele: How can someone have all the answers yet not know how to speak effectively? HHMMM.........
Vj ~ Effective enough to offend a fool, what more do I need?
samtzu - July 19, 1999
Sam: Boy, I wondered where you went. Long weekend, eh?
Vj ~ Just giving you some time to find the right questions.
Sam: I have read your home page and the various links and I still can't see the truth behind the claims you're making.
Vj ~ When one is buried deep in ignorance as you been for so many years, seeing truth won't be a simple matter. It would require the proper guidance over a good period of time before any light can start to seep in. In other words, your intellect, which is a static one, must first become a functional one until you can reason with the correct knowledge.
Sam: I guess that makes me a fool.
Vj ~ No Sam, no one is a fool during inquiry. When you would have finished your inquiries and still fail to understand then you can happily proclaim yourself a fool.
Sam: Also, you said that getting the right answers depends very much on "who" I go to, to get those answers.
Vj ~ Very true, Sam and I hope you have checked in on the Light of Truth as I have told you to do.
Sam: Are you the one I am supposed to go to?
Vj ~ It is a good question sam, but one you can better answer when ever you your inquires bare you fruits.
samtzu - July 20, 1999
Sam: Yes, Vijai, I have checked into "The Light of Truth". I have not stopped enquiring, nor will I.
Vj ~ Enquiry is an excellent idea, but it is most promising when you do it with the correct knowledge (Light of Truth) and my guidance.
Sam: It is not in my nature. However, until that time that The Light of Truth dawns within me, I have to admit that I am ignorant.
Vj ~ Now I truly believe you are not acting. It is act of suppressing the ego, that makes us humble enough to seek truth.
Sam: As I have said in the past, words are symbols for something deeper, something more real. Until the words and the deeper reality mesh, unite, there is only ignorance, though a man know all the words by heart
Vj ~ Very true, words are only words, we must never succumb to vanity or feel depression by insults. The deeper reality of words can only be understood through proper reasoning guided by the correct knowledge.
Sam: Thank you for your care and concern. I will study what you have shown me.
Vj ~ You welcome my friend and may your efforts bare you fruits.
Sam: I will get back to you when knowledge and wisdom grow together. Namaste, Brother Vijai.
Vj ~ Not a bad thought. That means you won't be needing me. (smile) Good luck my friend. Namaste, Vijai.
Dialogue 32 Back to contents
Rebuttal from Harryll: - July 22, 1999
Hell Sam...I'm surprised that you haven't noticed that VJ has FOUND the source of ALL knowledge...He is so certain of that, he is willing to dismiss ALL knowledge that Mankind has accumulated over the centuries...This accumulation of knowledge came honestly from much work and effort, often while individually having to risk reputation, wealth and his very life in his quest to further his knowledge...To VJ all of this Human knowledge is bunk and worthless, and he, of course, knows EVERYTHING...In his fantasy world things like science, medicine and enlightenment of any kind would be discarded for the TRUTHS that he says exists only from one source...And naturally, he is the ultimate and final interpretor of that TRUTH...A rather frighten prospect when you read his comments...The truth is, he knows NOTHING...., but his arrogance will never allow him the objectivity to be able to see that truth of himself...
samtzu -July 22, 1999
Harry, Vijai doesn't need, or even want me to defend him, so I won't. But I have looked deeper into Vijai's heart than anyone else on these pages has been willing to do, and I see what he is saying, sorta'. The Vedic knowledge that he refers to is quite thorough. The fact that it is presented in metaphor should not detract from its validity. Remember, all higher math is metaphor. Study carefully the Vedic "Scripture" before you dismiss it. Vijai has a very disturbing technique for finding devotees, one that is not suited for our western ways of thought, but he is quite sincere, and what he offers is very real. His personality could use some "smoothing" but that rough (VERY rough!) exterior hides some very useful knowledge.
I've said for years that there is no such thing as a free education, and part of the price is putting up with Vijai's abuse and insults. I do not accept him as one of my teachers, nor do I accept the Vedic scripture as the only truth, but I am sure that Vijai can relate to somebody, and I am very certain that Vedism is correct on most theological points. I'm sure that Jesus could be a prick at times, too. Good luck on beating your head against that wall. sam
Dialogue 33 Back to contents
Rebuttal to Harryll: - July 22, 1999
Harryll: Hell Sam...I'm surprised that you haven't noticed that VJ has FOUND the source of ALL knowledge... Vj ~ Better this way, than him be surprised it is from some ape in the past.
Harryll: He is so certain of that, he is willing to dismiss ALL knowledge that Mankind has accumulated over the centuries...
Vj ~ I am dismissing your source (evolution of man from lower creature) that has made you an idiot and not the “knowledge”.
Harryll: This accumulation of knowledge came honestly from much work and effort, often while individually having to risk reputation, wealth and his very life in his quest to further his knowledge...
Vj ~ Swami Dayanand lost his life for the highest truth, but gained emancipation. This is the reward one must look forward to in the service of creation. Can you say the same for those individual you speak of? Do you know where they are now besides being dead?
Harryll: To VJ all of this Human knowledge is bunk and worthless, and he, of course, knows EVERYTHING...
Vj ~ No journey has ever been undertaken without a source and when your knowledge lacks a source, more-so a destination, then you are completely lost. Any knowledge that puts mankind in such a precarious situation is indeed bunk.
Harryll: In his fantasy world things like science, medicine and enlightenment of any kind would be discarded for the TRUTHS that he says exists only from one source...
Vj ~ Better "one source" than none at all. How can you find enlightenment when your truth is yet to be discovered at sometime in the future? It is unbelievable that if a scientist can be so ignorant what can one expect of the less educated?
Harryll: And naturally, he is the ultimate and final interpreter of that TRUTH...
Vj ~ Finally, something sensible! Now if I can only get you to believe it.
Harryll: A rather frighten prospect when you read his comments...
Vj ~ Your fear shows how far you are from enlightenment. I can imagine death is closing in on you, and all you think of is how wrong I am, even though you lack the source knowledge.
Harryll: The truth is, he knows NOTHING...., but his arrogance will never allow him the objectivity to be able to see that truth of himself...
Vj ~ The truth is, an idiot can never know the truth because even God cannot cure him. I have a source for my truth and you don't. I am a witness to those who have found this truth and were rewarded. You speak of truth and enlightenment but yet have no source, and furthermore, you know not of what your rewards will be for what you have acquired. So, who is an idiot? Finally, an enlightened person knows who taught the first man. You are still looking.
Dialogue 34 Back to contents
Rebuttal from:samtzu - July 23, 1999
Sam: Harry: Vijai doesn't need, or even want, me to defend him, so I won't. Vj ~ Battled, bruised and insulted you have come of age Sam. You are indeed readied for true knowledge.
Sam: But I have looked deeper into Vijai's heart than anyone else on these pages has been willing to do, and I see what he is saying, sorta'.
Vj ~ Nothing can come in the way of a soul that thirsts for truth. When one has come to the path in this way know that he is ready for more. I am indeed proud of you my friend.
Sam: The Vedic knowledge that he refers to is quite thorough. The fact that it is presented in metaphor should not detract from its validity. Remember, all higher math is metaphor. Study carefully the Vedic "Scripture" before you dismiss it.
Vj ~ I wonder how he is going to accept this Sam. Maybe embarrassed that he didn't read it instead of merely looking at it.
Sam: Vijai has a very disturbing technique for finding devotees, one that is not suited for our western ways of thought, but he is quite sincere, and what he offers is very real
Vj ~ Not only that, a wise man has no time to waste over a fool who has his own ego to deal with.
Sam: His personality could use some "smoothing" but that rough (VERY rough!) exterior hides some very usefull knowledge.
Vj ~ But you must admit, it is truly beneficial to those who sincerely want it. Truth can never be compromised or fostered by tolerance. It has been this way for centuries and because of it mankind is drifting into chaos.
Sam: I've said for years that there is no such thing as a free education, and part of the price is putting up with Vijai's abuse and insults.
Vj ~ True, lack of critical thinking is the weakness of Western intellect and unlike you, many would not see the sincerity of this true message.
Sam: I do not accept him as one of my teachers, nor do I accept the Vedic scripture as the only truth, but I am sure that Vijai can relate to somebody, and I am very certain that Vedism is correct on most theological points.
Vj ~ And one day you will see it logical on all points even if I am not your teacher.
Sam: I'm sure that Jesus could be a prick at times, too.
Vj ~ Jesus never wrote anything, but those who did on his behalf are pricks at all times.
Sam: Good luck on beating your head against that wall.
Vj ~ It won't matter anyway, his brains are not there.
Dialogue 35 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: harryl l- July 25, 1999
Harryll: Hello again singhvj...You think that all knowledge must come from a single source (ie. sage) and that NOTHING that Mankind learns on his own is valid... Vj ~ It is only valid when the true source is determined. For instance, you may know matter is the material cause of the universe, but where did matter come from? If you say it exists eternally then by what authority can it be proclaimed truth? If it is by someone who acquired this information on his own, then it would contradict another's opinion to the reverse, which is also his own. This is why we have a world full of idiots all having their own opinions which they, of course, can never make intellectual progress based on them.
Harryll: The reality of such an obsession is that you deny even the simple multiplication tables of fundamental arithmetic because, in your opinion, they can't be traced to coming from your own accepted single source...
Vj ~ So where did it come from? If in your own opinion the source is man, himself, then you must also explain why a human brought up by wolves or apes, without outside human interference, would have no idea of these "simple multiplication tables of fundamental arithmetic"?
Harryll: The "teacher" or sage is the only theme and center of your reason and thought process...
Vj ~ A far more intelligent thought process I must say, than from an illiterate ape-teacher-sage void of language.
Harryll: While it may be true that God knows all, what has this to do with you.???..
Vj ~ Good question, but how do I get an idiot to understand when he expects God to personally make it known to him?
Harryll: You are claiming that your "source" is HIM and that enables you to know everything...
Vj ~ Yes, through His revelation of the Vedas to the Rishis or sages and then to us.
Harryll: You dismiss everything else of reality, all knowledge, because you claim that it didn't come from that same source...
Vj ~ Obviously, if I didn't, I would fall into the same category of an imbecile as you are. I know what is true and false of your reality because of my source. But you, on the other hand, hold on to your reality as a means or a hope of finding the truth sometime in the future. This is fine, but what happened to those souls who have come and gone not knowing this truth. Isn't it intelligent and justifiable a reason to say that the truth has always existed but man, through his own fault, rejected it, knowingly or unknowingly, rather than being deprived of it, by no fault of their own?
Harryll: You are basing your entire life on a lot of assumptions that can clearly be seen as foolish...
Vj ~ True, it is assumptions what else can be expected from fools who haven't the courage to even investigate the testimonies of the Rishis.
Harryll: You attack those who point these absurdities out to you by saying that you and your views represent God....
Vj ~ I have attacked what is false, with good reasoning and have not accused anyone falsely. If you happen to be the defender of what is false, my insults again, is supported by proper reasoning, and are not meant to degrade but to uplift. I have hatred for none, whoever they might be, but only that what is false.
Harryll: I have no qualm with those who believe in God, it's when someone tries to claim and use God as a basis for their own absurdities, that there is a problem...
Vj ~ It is a problem because you know nothing of God, much-less the one expounding His truth. Why is it absurd to say that man had to be taught when all educational institutions from inception points in that direction? Are you such a fool that your intellect cannot even infer that what might have occurred in the past, is what the present requires and all signs point to the future as the same?
Harryll: When these absurdities deny reality then that person is violating the most fundamental of all reasoning process...
Vj ~ The absence of a source is the true denial of reality and since you have no source you have no reality. You are living in a fool's paradise, knowing neither where you came from, nor where you are going.
Harryll: Reality is the measuring yardstick what separates TRUTH from OPINION...
Vj ~ In that case anyone can go to a store and buy your reality (yardstick). I see one with a 'reality' but no source as a jackass and one even without a reality but a source, an intelligent being. How did your yardstick stick it to you?
Harryll: There can be no value in a life that denies all reality as you do....
Vj ~ And what value is there for a jackass who lives day by day, supposedly looking for truth, whilst denying a rational source?
Harryll: You are as lost as one can get...
Vj ~ That makes two of us - you found me and typical of a fool, you are still determined to stay lost by arguing that I am the one that is lost when I have a source. How can you go back without a source or forward without a destination? Even a jackass is in better shape since he has the instinct to survive without them.
Dialogue 36 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: harryll - July 28, 1999
Harryll: Hello again singhvj....Why is it that you must always pose an impossible, unanswerable question as a test of who knows REALITY.???.. Vj ~ How else would I know a jackass from one who is really seeking truth?
Harryll: Just because you can ask questions concerning the instant of the creation of all matter and time doesn't mean that you know the answer...
Vj ~ It is the only rational answer until you can agree or come up with a better source.
Harryll: When honest science says it doesn't have a final answer either, it doesn't discredit all other knowledge that it has gained through honest inquisition and hard work over centuries as you suggest that it MUST...
Vj ~ I am discrediting your science version of reality and not all knowledge. If it is by honesty and hard-work what therefore are the rewards when the sad reality that the truth is still not known?
Harryll: You're "all or nothing" argument is about as foolish a bit of logic or reasoning that one can imagine...
Vj ~ I couldn't agree more, coming from an idiot. You're "part or full reality" stinks as dog shit and defies the true definition of logic or reasoning. In the absence of correct knowledge one must reason within the immutable laws of nature, even a dog performs better than you do, within these laws.
Harryll: By now you should have realized that since God is "in control" of earthly matters that REALITY is in reality, HIS final judgment and say in any matter...
Vj ~ Very true, but how would you know which God is in control? What is the source of your statement?Harryll: If a "fool" doesn't know the multiplication tables it doesn't really matter because he will always get the same answer when he finally decides to check...That is reality...
Vj ~ Anyone born in such condition cannot be a fool since one has no way of knowing. But the biggest fool is one who knows the multiplication tables but too stubborn to check the source of such knowledge.
Harryll: REALITY is always there, it exists whether you want to recognize or admit it or not...
Vj ~ Again idiot, how is it reality when the source or destination cannot be established?
Harryll: The biggest fool that can exist is one who denies REALITY...
Vj ~ True, especially when that reality has no source or destination, meaning that the fool is content in what he already knows with no desire for further investigation.
Harryll: He desperately wants to live a lie that is always a fantasy and product of his own unquenchable EGO.....
Vj ~ Now that you are aware of your ego, what are going to do about it?
Harryll: Those who deny reality are always interesting to watch, they do an elaborate balancing act between reality and delusion...
Vj ~ Now you have become a magician.
Harryll: For example, they might be certain that they can fly, but they retain enough reality to know not to jump off of a building to really test it out...
Vj ~ Just like you, who also know that you have a brain to use, but the sad reality is you don't want to use it to investigate an existing truth for the fear that it might collapse into deeper stupidity.
Harryll: If you ever really try to test your own fantasies, I hope that you can take disappointment...
Vj ~ For me, there will never be any, but to the world there are disappointments. Any idiot can be a scientist and undergoes horrible disappointments when his works are repudiated by fellow scientists.
Harryll: Unfortunately for you, the only real test of your beliefs will be found in the "hereafter", it will be, of course, too late by then to see that you have wasted your life...
Vj ~ I have got the source and with it comes the destination, why would I not want to begin such a fantastic journey? It is you my friend who is in for a surprise. What have you got, neither a source nor a destination? You are completely lost. You haven't got the courage to refute mine.
Harryll: I may not be able to know the circumstances of how matter and time where created
Vj ~ And you speak of reality. How do you know that it is not necessary to make life a reality? Harryll: but I am certain of you, that's almost TOO easy......
Vj ~ And what fool is anything difficult for, since he desires nothing else when it is also "almost TOO easy" to remain a fool?
Dialogue 37 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: harryll - August 01, 1999
Harryll: Hello singhvj...How can you live in this society, live in houses, sleep in beds, use lights, telephone, even your computer when these very things are the product of the western science that you say is all wrong and doesn't work... Vj ~ You are indeed a brainless twit. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the science but its use in denying the source. Like religion, science must also be guided by a truth which must be in harmony with reasoning and in conformity with natural laws. Religion must be in harmony with science and only then both can work effectively for the good of mankind.
Harryll: You are asking everyone reading this to dismiss all of these countless things and accept your "reality"
Vj ~ It is better than you brainwashing them to believe that science has no source, or yet to be found, and no destination or it will be known at sometime in the future.
Harryll: when you can't give one single example of the superiority of your reality over the science of today...
Vj ~ The examples are in my site, that is if your lamed brain can comprehend it.
Harryll: In science, before a new medicine is allowed to be used it has to be thoroughly tested...Let's do a similar test on your beliefs...
Vj ~ So why don't you put my religion to a thorough test too, by questioning it? It is obvious if my philosophical treatise, like your medicine, sits in a container untouched there can be no tested result, right?
Harryll: The way to do this is to send yourself and some followers to a deserted island that is devoid of the western science that you hate so much,
Vj ~ Again it is not the science I despise but the idiots, like you, who abuse it for the wrong purposes. I can't see how a cure for common cold or the billions spent to walk on the moon, can be so scientifically important when millions are practically dying daily of simple starvation.
Harryll: no phones, electricity, autos, or medicines, no technology, nothing except your "source" book that (you claim) answers all of these needs...
Vj ~ The Rishis (altruistic teachers) who have achieved self-realization, did so in the caves of the Himalayas, with none of the above, not even food or water and only with their source knowledge. But being an idiot as you are, I guess I would have to get those Rishis to prove my point directly to you also. I wonder what proof of the earth's roundness was presented to those who believed it to be flat a few centuries ago? I am quite sure like everything else, science first had to work on theories by subjective means (invisible evidences) before they became reality (objective). Why do you think this procedure is not necessary in all cases, including my theory of the most abstruse science of the Supreme Being?
Harryll: It will be very interesting to see how you make out...
Vj ~ Why be surprised idiot, when early man survived without your science? How do you know that I am not conditioned to survive in those conditions also?
Harryll: If you are ready, I will help arrange such an undertaking, that's kind of what I do...
Vj ~ I don't mind, but a wise man knows there is no cure for a fool, so what would it prove? There are institutions for teaching and yet they do not tell you that man must be taught. Everything created decays from perfection or purity and yet you cannot infer a perfect creation before now. Also, judging from our conversation, you might do better by serving mankind as an undertaker rather than a scientists. Furthermore, I began this undertaking a long time ago when I first presented my faith and I don't see you contradicting (testing) it yet.
Dialogue 38 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: Sam - August 01, 1999
Sam: The judges have ruled that that point goes to Vijai. Vj ~ How are you doing my friend. Where have you been, acting again? (smile) Sam: As a matter of fact, most of them gave him a perfect "10" on execution and style.
Vj ~ Not really Sam, wise men seek no glory on execution and style. It is their humble way of enlightening the human race of the truth by proper reasoning guided by the correct knowledge. Sam: Well, Harry is up next. Let's see if he can match this champion performance.
Vj ~ The company of the wise are few. It would be easy for him to find a bunch of fools among the majority, like himself to make him feel good.
Sam: Yes; acting, working, meditating. Life is good. And full. sam
Vj ~ I see you have been reading the Light of Truth. Excellent my friend. One day perhaps Harryll may want to suppress his ego, just enough to read it also
harryll - August 02, 1999
Harryll: Hello singhvj...I'm glad that you found someone that can come to your aid, however, it is just one person...
Vj ~ If you only know how pleasant it is to have one sensible person coming to my aid than engaging thousands of fools like you. It should instead serve as a very good example to you, of one who was once your ally, and has humbled himself, inspite of the derogatory remarks hurled at him, to study my site. Such a soul, so rare and fitting of a decadent age, my friend, has truly come prepared for true knowledge.
Harryll: It is interesting that you mention the "round earth" question of centuries back...
Vj ~ When will you ever point out something interesting?
Harryll: Truthful (but unorganized) science knew of this fact centuries ago
Vj ~ The Rishis have always known it to be so, for almost 2 billion years and it is still recorded in the Vedas and their expositions.
Harryll: but the powerful religious authority of the Christian Church ruled that believing this is heresy and punishable by death...
Vj ~ Belief is just as destructive as science when they are both without reasoning and do not conform with natural laws."After religious teachers accomplish the refining process indicated they will surely recognize with joy that true religion has been ennobled and made more profound by scientific knowledge."Albert Einstein.
Harryll: The last officially documented execution for this offense was in 1701 in Northern Italy.. Vj ~ The last officially documented massacre due to science is Yugoslavia, World War II, not to mention Nagasaki and Hiroshama only 50 years ago, where bombs (science) have taken numerous innocent lives and poison the environment. So your science like Christianity is not any better off, is it?
Harryll: The man's name was Bruno...He suffered and died in a cruel live burning at the stake, and also lost all rights of his fortune and property for his surviving family, leaving them destitute...
Vj ~ The same might be said of the millions of dying children of Africa and other third world nations where modern sciences have failed them.
Harryll: He did all this rather than accept a "lie" that the world was flat...He died for a principle, that of TRUTH...He is not alone, many millions have died over the centuries because of the bigotry of the "UNTRUTHS" of fanaticism...
Vj ~ Excellent analysis! So what was his reward for dying for that truth? Any man that sacrificed his life blindly and subjecting is family to pain and misery, not knowing what rewards are expected of it, is an idiot worst than the fanatics themselves.
Harryll: They have starved in their own homes or died on battlefields simply because of ignorance of fanaticism, usually religiously based...
Vj ~ Your "lame" science and their beliefs are the demise of this creation. Only now millions more are killed by just the push of a button. Science has become the weapon and belief (false religion) the reason to kill.
Harryll: As history easily shows, religions have continuingly been the only foes of the truths that enlightenment and science provide...
Vj ~ You mean the religions you know about? What about one you know nothing or don't want to know anything about?
Harryll: Science is impartial to the debate as to whether God exists, or exactly who HE is...But that's not good enough for you, is it???..
Vj ~ If you weren't such an idiot, the present chaotic conditions of our planet would have been good enough a reason to tell you that it isn't good enough. Why settle for what your science can hope to give us in the future, when the Vedic revelation, the source of all sciences, can give us that harmony now, as it did in the past? Isn't this dire stupidity?
Harryll: You insist, like those of the past, that it must support your religious beliefs or be denied...That is no different than the religious fanatics throughout history have done...
Vj ~ There is a difference, that is, if you have the brains to investigate the true religion of the Vedas which neither feared the advancement of science, nor was it guilty of terrors of the Inquisition, slavery and holocausts. It never shed the blood of a Galileo, a Copernicus or a Bruno.
Harryll: No one should ever deny you the right to your religious beliefs but, by the same reasoning, you should not try to make it manditory that everyone think just like you and accept yours as the only true religion...
Vj ~ But you want them to accept blindly your science even though you have no source and no destination? A soul has the capacity to distinguish right from wrong if it is guided by the correct knowlege. It would be a travesty to sound reasoning to curtail the free-born intellect by brainwashing it with beliefs or your science. Instead, it must be taught to function by prudent enquires and investigations by examining the tenets of all religions to ascertain truth from falsehood. Have you Mr. Dumb Scientist done that?
Harryll: You may have wondered why I haven't called you any derogatory names
Vj ~ In the first place the wise are above the effect of offensive language and secondly what are your punishments or rewards for not using them? I see you striken with a disease of the brain called ignorance, it is the reason why the words such as idiots, fools, imbecile and jackass are used. It is not meant to be offensive, but a therapy used for your own good. So the sooner you realized it, hopefully your chance of a cure might be possible.
Harryll: but that is because I am probably one of the few unfanatic friends that you have who are concerned with your well-being...
Vj ~ How can you be concern for anyone's well-being, when you are misleading even yourself? You don't know the origin of life, hence you don't know where you came from. You don't know your rewards for being "concerned for my well-being" or refraining from using derogatory languages, hence you don't know where you are going? How can such an idiot as you, do any good to yourself, muchless me and the world?
Harryll: The problems in that region of the world are certainly not science based, they are from the removal of all reason and science...
Vj ~ You have been shooting a lot of irrelevant opinions and avoiding true issue of the source of science. However I will like you to munch on this by one of your own fellow scientists. "We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein P.S. You seem to have a knock for generalizing the issue instead of attending to each point categorised by me. This way you are able to escape the rational aspect of this debate. But then why should I ever bother to bring it up, when an illiterate knows nothing of a rational debate.
Dialogue 39 Back to contents
Rebuttal from:harryll - August 07, 1999
Harryll: Hello singhvj...What kind of moral message are you inferring with Einstein's comment (and his opinion)??... Vj ~ You are the scientist, figure it out!
Harryll: I've been saying all along that Mankind has obtained knowledge from many many sources not just one as you say that they must....
Vj ~ What you are saying all along is that knowledge is coming from many sources among nations of the world beginning from a few centuries ago. And what I am saying is that all those 'source nations' had one common source - India. No savage nation can become civilized by itself.
Harryll: The fact that Einstein wanted to credit the indians is OK by me, but I understand that he may not have been the most knowledgable or necessarily the final authority to say something like that...
Vj ~ And what makes you the authority to say he doesn't have the "final authority" or your stupid claim that knowledge came from many sources? I am quite sure you would have endorsed his authority if the source of maths had come from some savage in the past.
Harryll: You deny all knowledge that doen't come from your "source" but where is all of this information spelled out so that the world should suddenly recognize this single source.???..
Vj ~ The question should be, with brains like yours who would be able to recognize the "single source"? Science now says that earth's life originated from Mars (bacterial). Bravo for these mad idiots! So which planet are they now looking for the source of Mar's life forms? I will always maintian that "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".
Harryll: If it were as you claim, we would all gladly embrace it...
Vj ~ How is that possible you bigot, if you chose not to investigate it?
Harryll: For example, I am absolutely impartial to the source of any truth that I am fortunate to uncover...
Vj ~ Ever heard of "actions speak louder than words." Are you some how blindfolded? You are indeed a hypocrite!
Harryll: Most "issues" exist because each "side" of them has some truth behind their opinions...
Vj ~ "Issues" can only exists as truth when it is in perfect harmony with reasoning and in conformity with natural laws.
Harryll: It is more important to understand these sometimes contrary truths than to blindly "pick" one side or the other...
Vj ~ So why are blindly picking one side (science)? Harryll: "--- can only exist as truth it is in perfect harmony with reasoning and in conformaty to natural laws."...You do nothing that suggests that what you think complies or follows those thoughts....
Vj ~ Then tell me what you know of natural laws and its functions and then we will know who is the idiot. Let me help you -
natural laws dictate that all things created (always from perfection or their purest form) must decay and eventually return to matter. The advancement of our present civilization shows progression upwards and not downwards (decay). Meaning that whatever 'progress' accomplished by science or false dogmas today has to be inferior to that in the beginning of creation.
Dialogue 40 Back to contents
Rebuttal from:Frooger - August 11, 1999
Froog: Vj ~ Still not safe without a parachute. Froog: Vijai, your argument *AGAINST* evolution appears to have ignored genetic mutation augmented by natural selection,
Vj ~ Even the theory of natural selection is indicative of nature's imperfection. According to it Nature is still improving, progression upwards, a breach to natural laws. Froog: whereby if a new attribute appears which is beneficial to a given species appears with noticable freguency, this will be bred into that species and become a part of that species... such as, say, consciousness?
Vj ~ We believe in the pre-existence of all things in Nature, and in their later manifestation, not as an originality, but as a manifestation of a pre-existing substance, lying latent in its (nature) bosom, which means out of nothing, nothing can come. Therefore, whatever comes into existence by genetic mutations or otherwise, must have had a pre-existence in Nature.Froog: Your other argument, that of Religion stressing a "better world of purity and righteousness" has the stink of the Inquisition about it...
Vj ~ That depends on where your world began. It would be best for you to check out my site where you can be better informed of creation. Froog: can you really believe that "progress" is a downward trend?
Vj ~ Everything else (created) are, so why is the creation (universe) any different. Froog: And if so, are you propounding the idea that stasis, or a lack of movement either forwards or backwards, can be seen as an "upwards" trend?!
Vj ~ No, there is always movement even if it cannot be perceived by the eyes. Even our physical body experience such changes every second due to atomic changes, all pointing to decay.Froog: Which period of time is your preferred state, where would you rather be stuck? Is it really 15th century Spain, where any perceived deviation from Church dogma would result in torture and death
Vj ~ I have no preference since I am already experiencing the bliss of true knowledge. It can be acquired in any age because this truth existed from the very beginning of creation for all and in all ages. Your periods are a result of retrogression and decadence which have left many in a state of ignorance. Even when Spain or other parts of the world were in 15th century or 1st century mode, there were more civilize conditions existing in India among a few of its inhabitants. In this way they will always remain the source for all periods of retrogression. For example, the Aztec (Mayan and Incas) empire in the Americas were a highly civilized race than the Europeans before the Spaniards came. It was a civilization on its way down.
ThymeTraveller - August 12, 1999
Thyme: Virtually all religions are expressions of human conceit and arrogance.
Vj ~ That will depend on what you know of all religions. Not virtually some, and not all is my guess.
Thyme: The human animal evolves into existence and in its absurd vanity presumes to think that all was made just for it.
Vj ~ I am in agreement to such human covetousness.
Thyme: The human pompously sees itself as the "highest" form of life, and all other forms as "lower."
Vj ~ They are indeed higher forms (intellectually) but ignorance is the result of the rest. I hope for your forsake you are not a consumer (diet) of any of these "Lower" forms. It won't make you any different from those you are accusing.
Thyme: (Some humans have also adopted this attitude towards other fellow humans with disastrous consequences.)
Vj ~ I agree, but truth requires consistency.
Thyme: There are NO "higher" or "lower" forms of life, just DIFFERENT forms, shapes and awarenesses.
Vj ~ Are there no higher mountains also, "just different forms, shapes and awareness"?Thyme: And every life form an expression of the Universe itself!
Vj ~ I agree, but how does a donkey assimilate "an expression of the Universe itself"?
Thyme: If you go out tonight and look up into the vast, starry sky - you are not something separate from it looking at it.
Vj ~ True, but how would a blind man know he is part "the vast starry sky".Thyme: you are a small part of the universe looking at itself!
Vj ~ And what sense would it make if you don't know where the universe came from, where it ends and what part you have come to play?
jeff139 - August 13, 1999
Jeff: Interesting point, however shortsighted.
Vj ~ That's exactly what my optometrist said, but leaves you a genius since he had to literally conduct a test.
Jeff: First, evolution can be studied and verified in lower beings
Vj ~ And what makes you think the slow and gradual scientific creation of the universe cannot be studied and be verified by earlier beings.
Jeff: It is studied presently off the coast of Aruba and the same species grows and changes into new species basically right before our eyes.
Vj ~ When the changes bring about another human give me a call since my dispute is with the evolution of man.
Jeff: Second, there is no evidence to prove that there are no other species evolving now to become man,
Vj ~ Then we can easily infer that there were none to begin with since the cause of the physical body is the reproductive element which is steady, a law.
Jeff: the theory of evolution takes millions of years to pan out.
Vj ~ And haven't we reached an age where millions of years have also gone by since the first human evolved, to have another?Jeff: That is the whole point.
Vj ~ The whole point is based on its conformity with natural laws, and if it is in violation then evolution of man from a lower creature cannot be true. Jeff: If you look at the research, you see there are a variety of human type of evolutionary patterns that take millions of years to change from one to the next.
Vj ~ And if you look at sound reasoning through the correct knowledge perhaps it will tell you different. Millions of years have also past and yet not even a small tiny bitty evidence of other human evolving from a lower creature.Jeff: The difference is so slight we could not possible notice in one life time.
Vj ~ I am quite sure we in this life time could not have been so unfortunate as the thousands of generations who have missed it in their life time. At the same time, we can say that if they and us, missed it, then it is quite possible in some distant future, other generations will be able to see it. Right? Jeff: How do you possible discard the physical evidence of the different homo erectus species?
Vj ~ Easy, it will be discarded by future scientists as those now, did with those of the past.
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"Just as color cannot be perceived by ears, nor sound by eyes; in like manner, the Eternal Supreme Spirit is not perceptible to the senses. He can only be seen by a pure soul through the purity of heart, acquisition of knowledge and the practice of yoga. Just as one cannot reap the advantages of knowledge without acquiring it, likewise the Supreme Spirit cannot be seen without the practice of yoga and gaining the highest knowledge." The Light of TruthTranslation |
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