Responses:
Dialogue 1 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: BobSci- April 04, 2000 Bob:SMC said it all on another board. Logic like that of VJ sure makes you want to be a Christian. NOT! Vj ~ Your brain is also as warped as that of SMC's logic since like an evolutionist, a Christian too believe the universe came out of nothing.
harryll - April 05, 2000 Harry:VJ....It all did come from nothing...
Vj ~ Then why aren't magicians considered the greatest scientists of all times and even be rewarded with the Nobel prizes?
Harry:Each species, including Man, developed gradually but it was own their own volition, not some sudden, divine change or insight that changed them overnight...
Vj ~ It is a breach to the immutable law of nature where human body has been, is and will always be the product of the reproductive element; secondly progression is always downwards and not upwards another law unchangeable and lastly instinctive knowledge is natural, it neither decreases nor increases and therefore cannot be credited for the human development.
Harry:We couldn't even exist without the help of small creatures
Vj ~ And who said we could jackass? And most certainly they didn't teach us maths.
Harry:...You would have fit nicely into some societies that existed thousands of years past, but in today's world there is no real excuse for the ignorance that you display...
Vj ~Vj ~My knowledge confirms with reasoning, science and the immutable laws of nature.
"Religion without science is blind and science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein.
Your science is without reasoning, in defiance of abstruse science and constantly breaches the immutable laws of nature.
In spite of my repeated insistence, you never seem to follow through on one topic at a time, but I guess that is what is expected of one with a jackass's mentality. If you are truly a scientist may God help us all.
Draygomb - April 11, 2000 Dray:If progression is always downward.
Vj ~ It is not an "if", it is a fact unless you know of an old person that became a young person again.
Dray:Then one must be born with all of the knowledge that they need.
Vj ~ No, but we are born in innocence and purity. The (correct) knowledge must be acquired for the purpose of maintaining them (innocence and purity) to the end. We are born with different inclinations though, due to actions (virtuous or sinful) of our past lives and these inclinations with effort decide what we become when knowledge is acquired. It is for this reason and only this reason why all students, in the same classroom being taught the same, never all receive the same grade.
Dray:This knowledge will then be forgotten and replaced by untruths learned from others who have forgotten.
Vj ~ Progression is downwards when "truth is replaced by untruths" as it is this present age. Progression is also measured from a child's innocence and purity (natural) which decays as the child ages. Knowledge (true) is a necessary means of all beings to maintain some of this purity for the purpose of salvation.
Dray:One shouldn't study the writings of another because all one can learn is untruths.
Vj ~ One will be in a better position when one acquires the correct knowledge by the proper reasoning habits, before studying the writings of others.
Dray:So much for the downward progression theory.
Vj ~ I admire your inquisitiveness Gray if you persist it is an excellent way of ascertaining truths from untruths.
ZipoBibrok - April 11, 2000 zipo:Yeah, Cultural Evolution, just like Natural Selection, 'cept a magnitude faster, maybe two.
Vj ~ Both must be in decline only then they conform with natural laws - this means the best of culture and natural selection, has already come and gone. zipo:(VJ, that means 10 or 100 times faster.) Heck, even Chimpanzees advance that way. In fact, recent evidence shows that chimps aren't just divided into two species, but also into regional sections that have their own customs, techniques, and rituals, including even speaking their own dialects of chimp-speak.
Vj ~ It wouldn't matter what language, customs, techniques, etc. they have, it is still instinctive which is natural, it does not increase or decrease, and it could have never been the source of acquired knowledge.zipo:Furthermore, it's a good thing that chimps don't fight wars of conquest more often, because as they say, "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy."
Vj ~ Chimps as all other creatures are constantly in the state of war - it is a case of the survival of the fittest - it is natural. Evil (sinful actions) is also a natural function of humans, but abstinence by the practice of the correct knowledge brings great rewards. This is what makes us different.
Dialogue 2 Back to contents
Rebuttal from:harryll - August 10, 2000 Harry: Hello Steve and VJ....I've followed the discussions on this board over the years Vj ~ It is those with great inclinations that become leaders rather than followers.Harry: and it seems incredible that VJ seems to recognize the insanity of other religions ....
Vj ~ Haven't you noticed that I have recognized the insanity of evolution also? Harry: but refuses to consider the insanity of his own position and religion
Vj ~ ~ It is even more incredible that you have no "position" at all. Harry: VJ desperately clings to his very simplified idea of human existence, one that egotistically places him exempt from nature and the laws of nature...
Vj ~ And with not only good reasoning behind it, but science and natural laws which prove your ideas to be all false. And like a jackass you have no knowledge of natural law and its operations, how then should I expect you know when your "reality and/or truth" breached it or not? Harry: His passing, just like the other similar religious zealots like him throughout history will mean no more reality and nature than a lone tree falling deep in some obscure forest....
Vj ~ It wouldn't matter jackass, since in your reality everything is only mere chances. We eat, shit, sleep and die with nothing to look forward to. It surprises me a lot why you idiots are still making so much effort to find the origin of man when there is really nothing to gain from it. And if there is, it will be an injustice since only those who found it will benefit. Harry: Everyone wants to believe themselves special and religions thrive on that promise that one's life will continue indefinitely in some heaven or it's equivalent, (provided that they follow the everchanging, interpreted "rules")...
Vj ~ What then is the difference when evolution is striving on the opposite? Harry: The reality is that our lives are important only to one another,
Vj ~ If that were the case, then what would be the reason for a lower creature to evolve into a human. Weren't your early ape ancestors' lives important enough to one another as animals? Harry: "nature" could "careless" if all humanity were to disappear overnight...
Vj ~ Perhaps in your ignorance nature could care less if all humanity were to disappear, but to the intelligent she cares enough to bring us into being. Harry: reality, nature and other life would continue just as if humanity never existed....This is a fact that your ego could NEVER accept VJ....
Vj ~ The least is my ego accept you as a near-perfect jackass on two legs. It shouldn't matter to you whether you are one or not since nature could careless.
Dialogue 3 Back to contents
Rebuttal from:steve-tripod - August 09, 2000 Steve: Singh - #1 - I am not Muslim. Vj ~ You haven't said anything sensible so far, to make me think otherwise. Steve: #2 - you should consider refuting this since it was the Vedas whom taught the Hindus; therefore the Vedas must believe in these words which you have read.
Vj ~ And from Abraham sprang forth three opposing religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) therefore was it Abraham's fault or the idiots who created them? As I said before, had you not been a brainless twit like your prophet Muhammad you would have read my site and would have noticed that I have refuted Hinduism also. Steve: #3 - I would never, ever consider being involved in the Vedic religion since all I have is the hatred you spew out to base any possible decision on.
Vj ~ What do the others have - according to Judaism, all non-Jews are Satanic, in Islam all non-muslims are infidels and in Christianity, Christ is the only way to salvation, non-Christians go to hell. It is only the Vedic religion that guarantees all souls salvation, if not this life, in some birth to come. Of course, the longer you hesitate the longer is your wait. Good luck.
Joe_Blow_Bogus - August 11, 2000
Joe: VJ - you really haven't provided much of a rebuttal to Tripod's post of Vedic teachings to the Hindus.
Vj ~I know you fellas must be starving, but there is a shortage of grass because of drought down here. Joe: I'm certain many of us would like to see you defend your own beliefs in the same manner which you ask us to defend ours.
Vj ~When the certainty exists that you both are not jackasses, I will attempt to do so. Joe: It seems your religion has many of its own "skeletons in the closet".
Vj ~To me it is you who are the "skeletons" with dried-up brains. Joe: Confirm or deny, do the Vedics teach this kind of crap or not?
Vj ~Yes we do "crap", like all other living things do - it is the law of nature.
harryll - Aug 12th 2000 Harry: Hello Joe....Most everyone has come to the same conclusion on VJ, but we noticed it LONG AGO...."Pathetic" doesn't even begin to describe this poor man's state of mind and his religious based obsessions...
Vj ~ The trait of a jackass - always complaining. Remember the story of the jackass who was burdened by his daily load of salt. He accidentally fell over a bridge one day and was so relieved when he found his load was no more after he swam out. After a few more willful stunts he was given a load of sponge instead and as a jackass would think, he again threw himself over the bridge, but this time only to his own regret. Even when he had the very light load of sponge, he wasn't happy. The moral of the story is that any human being who lives such a life constantly unhappy and complaining is not far removed from a jackass.
harryll- August 14, 2000 Harry: Hello VJ....Someday you will wakeup and see exactly WHO you are, what a shock you're in for....
Vj ~You must know since you are already one (jackass).
Joe_Blow_Bogus - August 15, 2000 Joe: Back to #1384 - Singh, you're only response to date is that the post depicts the Hindus.
It also depicts one of static (stupor) intellect which fits you neatly, since you don't know as yet, after many weeks, what my site depicts? Joe: But alas, such is not the case, is it? You will not get off that easily!
Vj ~I see no problem since one with a jackass's mentality can hardly be a threat to simple common sense. Joe: The post describes what the Vedas did to the Hindus; therefore, the Vedas practice it themselves. I submit to you yet again, refute the testimony.
Vj ~The post describes how nonentities can twist truth in any fashion to suit themselves. Again you can continue to be the idiot you are as it wouldn't matter what my answer is, it wouldn't make any difference to you.
Joe: Tell us how untrue it is. My guess is you cannot refute it because it speaks the truth.
Vj ~Of course, it speaks the truth why else would 1 billion people follow it? As I said before, whatever you believe to be true is your truth also and if that is all, like them, you are willing to settle for, then there isn't much a wise man can do to change that, is it?
Joe: Awfully peculiar how your main supporter, (Jewelled Spirit) has abandoned you.
Vj ~The main supporter is the truth (Vedas) and no one can change that. It is not the truth that fails man, but man failing truth.Joe: After all, Singh, she is a lower creature than you because she's a woman, right?
Vj ~All are a lower creature when they act and think like one, it is the correct knowledge that uplift the intellect to the higher realms of enlightenment. How stupid can you be when she is definitely on her way up while you are still a jackass? Joe: Singh, once again your solution for everything. He/she's a jackass, an idiot, or has shit for brains. I'm in admiration, how ever do you have the time to figure all of these things out?
Vj ~ Truth is ascertained by thorough reasoning practices where real knowledge and ordinary knowledge based on sense perception are present in a mixed state and the mind alternates between them. So you see no extra time is required for the "solution" that you are a jackass, it comes automatically to me on my way up.
Dialogue 4 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: Hello harryll - August 15, 2000 Harry: Unfortunately, VJ has yet to provide even one single example of the "superiority" of his Vedic based knowledge... That seems incredible since it's been around for many centuries, more than enough time to prove that point... Vj ~Here jackass are two examples:- "We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein. "India is the cradle of the human race, the birthplace; human speech, the mother of history, grandmother of legend, and great grandmother of tradition. Our most valuable and most instructive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only." Mark Twain You must note that it is impossible for a jackass to think and act like one without the knowledge and as long as you remain in such a state not a single proof will ever make any sense to you.
Jewelled-Spirit - August 15, 2000 JS: When my mouth is closed, my ears are open to hear the truth.
Vj ~ It makes sense why the truth escapes them - they have both open at the same time.
Joe_Blow_Bogus - August 16, 2000 Joe: So Singh -a-song of six pence....
Vj ~Don't let momentary pleasure fool you, my friend. When I go away it will abruptly come to an end.Joe: I see you do confirm post #1384. I guess it's hard to escape the Veda History of fornicating with animals to produce heirs to the throne & such and demeaning women. Such a shame.
Vj ~Let's face it Joe Blow, if it were indeed true, the shame of you being a descendant (origin) of such fornication would be totally devastating for the human conscience. But on the other hand, if you are truly a jackass, you wouldn't care.
Joe: Poor little Jewelled Spirit - I think your little Hindu/Vedic feelings were hurt....Awwwww....
Vj ~Ah! but, unlike you, she has found away out and it is only a matter of time, that she will be laughing while you are still a jackass.
Joe_Blow_Bogus - August 17, 2000 Joe: Singh - you must be truly devastated or you are a jackass.
Vj ~Either way that still leaves you a dumb jackass. Who in his right mind would keep coming to this board if he did not enjoy being one?
"Vj ~Let's face it Joe Blow, if it were indeed true, the shame of you being a descendant (origin) of such fornication would be totally devastating for the human conscience. But on the other hand, if you are truly a jackass, you wouldn't care." Joe: I'll go with the jackass option to describe you.
Vj ~Haven't you noticed yet, that it doesn't bother me the least of what I am described as? The wise are not affected by praise or insults.Joe: It explains a whole lot to all of us. No wonder you are so obnoxious.
Vj ~ Why are you complaining? Your continued presence here seems to indicate how much you must be enjoying the smell. Joe: In response to your other comment, I have been & continue to be laughing.
Vj ~ It is the same when a jackass brays, only it is difficult to tell whether he is laughing or crying.
Joe: Will you be playing in the PGA Championship this weekend?
Vj ~And forsake the great joy these debates, with a bunch of idiots, bring me, no way man!
Joe: Jewelled-Spirit: I wonder how you have managed to let such an obnoxious fool like Singh influence you in the manner which he does.
Vj ~Perhaps she, unlike you, is simply using her brains instead of her nose.Joe: From reading some of your other posts in different message boards, I presumed you were more intelligent than that. Am I wrong?
Vj ~It would help a great deal if you could only explain to her what you mean by "intelligent". Talk about putting a jackass in a spot!
Dialogue 5 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: IronFlames - August 17, 2000 Iron: VJ you stillborn idiot I see your still calling people by your pet names. Vj ~And who do you know that have a pet, have changed their pet's name? Besides who else can be so close to being a pet, than those evolving from a lower creature?Iron: I like to come to this board every now and again, just to abuse you.
Vj ~I love abuses so much that I can only pray for you to come more often than "every now and again".Iron: Never have I come across someone so demeaning and downright insulting when trying to get others to accept their point of view
Vj ~Think about it, if you can find enough people to agree with you, who knows, I might perhaps make it to the Guinness Book of world records.Iron: You are without a doubt the most unintelligible, unknowledgeable, egotistical, so full of your own shit, jackass these boards have ever seen.
Vj ~ Well, perhaps then, I have done a great job (truth hurts) since you haven't found anyone else as egotistical as me and especially when these boards are my own creation. Iron: Plus you condemn others religion while your own is a cesspool of condemnation of woman a true third-rate religion,
Vj ~It is the truth that condemns and it is idiots who are offended by it. Your ignorance also meets such condemnation since you know nothing of my religion.Iron: I spit on it!!!
Vj ~ Little good is that, unless you have someone else cleaning up (monitor screen) after you. Iron: Jewelled Spirit, as a woman how the hell can you even speak to this condescending freak?
Vj ~ And what do you call all those idiots, including yourself, who are attacking her right now because she is a woman? Lay off her, you cowards and deal with me.Iron: You seem intelligent enough, do yourself a favor and find a new place in life.
Vj ~ She has found "a new place in life", you are only her reminder of the old way.
harryll - August 18, 2000 Harry: Poor VJ...You let a few kind words concerning "Indians" (a broad generalization), be the justification for you to place them ABOVE all other societies and religions...
Vj ~ Poor dumb jackass, was it that "broad" a generalization with Mark Twain's quote? India is the cradle of all civilization, the source (Vedas) of all ethics, morals, and sciences. But what bigot of a jackass would really want to know that much less being a part of it? Harry: The problem is that YOU claim it to be superior in all respects to "western" knowledge and science...
Vj ~ It is genuine since even "western" knowledge and science" claims prevention (science of yoga) to be better than cure (modern science seeking cure and satisfying curiosity). Harry: That's why so many of us stop here, we can hardly believe that someone like you really exists....
Vj ~Very true, you, like many (fools) would have to stop there because "the company of the wise are indeed few". Harry: where can we find evidence of the superiority ?????....
Vj ~Here because superiority is not material science but the most abstruse science of the Supernatural which leads to the emancipation of the soul.
How can you jackass, argue for or against such a rational philosophy when you don't have a clue as to the origin of life, the secondary efficient cause and/or matter, the material cause of the universe?
Jewelled-Spirit - August 18, 2000 Vj ~ Think about it, if you can find enough people to agree with you, who knows, I might perhaps make it to the Guinness Book of world records JS: *LOL* good one :)
Vj ~ I am afraid that there is enough out there to make it happen.Joe_Blow_Bogus - Aug 18, 2000 Joe: Singh - Apparently you have me confused with someone who gives a damn.
Vj ~ I know you are confused why else would you care whose faith I criticized or whom I offend? Joe: I don't come to this board to seek guidance from you nor am I offended terribly by you either.
Vj ~I know, it is the reason why I said that God has no cure for a fool and why the wise would never attempt to guide one.Joe: I get a feasible amount of humor reading what a hypocrite such as yourself writes.
Vj ~ I too, am immersed with joy drawing nectar (wisdom) from poison (a fool), but the difference is that I have something to offer to those who truly thirst for knowledge while you come and go like an idiot.
Joe: It matters not to me whether you call me a jackass, idiot, etc...,
Vj ~Well if you are an idiot and find yourself incurable, I don't see why it would matter anyway. Funny too, how generous you are not caring for yourself, but stubbornly defending the others.Joe: I find it curious & humorous that you attack all organized religions
Vj ~Attacking or criticizing what is false with the support of good reasoning makes a lot of sense, it is the only way to ascertain truth. In the same way, the goodness of one man, among many, is determined because the others would have some faults.Joe: but cannot defend your own <-referencing previous posts which you were requested to confirm or deny allegations.
Vj ~ I would never have to defend my faith (truth) because no fool can ever come any close to refuting it. So go back to my site, dwell on it if you care, and dare to attack it if you can. Joe: You'd rather do a "Bill Clinton" on the issues. Now that is truly laughable!!!
Vj ~ How could it be when he (Clinton) was smart and intelligent enough to shrug them all off and govern economically strong, even for those who strongly criticized him, for eight years? I can only consider myself a genius, like him since it doesn't take much to outwit a bunch of fools.
Dialogue 6 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: harryll - Aug 20, 2000 Harry: Let's see if we understand your reasoning...Certainly no one visiting this board has heard any "wisdom" from you as an attraction or incentive for their time here Vj ~ Maybe you aren't aware that a jackass is stupor by nature and can never recognize my "reasoning" much less any "wisdom" from me. Why not tell me what you and others consider wisdom to be? Harry: Your response to JS: "Does it include the need to support an obvious hypocrite to intellectual pursuit."
Vj ~ I am only what I am on these boards because of the support of fools such as you. Just think for a moment, if no fool showed up, who could I have offended?
Jewelled-Spirit - Aug 21, 2000 JS: Harryll: I was once like you. You are like a mountain trying to disguise itself as a tree. Your opinions are carved into the stone of your mind, permanent and unchangeable, yet you persist in asking loaded questions and demanding answers as if you could be moved or swayed by them - like a limber tree that bends in the wind.
Vj ~ One would have to be completely brain-dead to remain a fool after reading such a rational and inspirational thought. JS: You should not be surprised when Vijai chooses not to answer your questions. I'm sure he sees the truth of your motivations as I do.
Vj ~ Actually the choice is with the idiot who don't want to know the answer.
JS: There is no mistaking a mountain for a tree. The question you need to be asking yourself now is, do you know you're a mountain or have you deceived yourself into believing you're a tree?
Vj ~Or just the "wind" blowing by.
iIovekristy Aug 21, 2000 ilove: You guys didn't get it yet?
Vj ~That you are fag who doesn't know a man from a woman or that it wouldn't make a difference if we were. ilove: and yes I learned some wisdom from singhvj, here is one: The more I know about him.. The more I respect pigs..
Vj ~ I would prefer it that way, rather than be eaten out of respect. vj: That you are fag who doesn't know a man from a woman or that it wouldn't make a difference if we were. ilove: If I don't know a man from a woman doesn't mean I'm a fag, where did you get this logic from?..
Vj ~ Since when an idiot is interested in "logic"? ilove: it means either you do not belong to the human race, or you are Paranoid Schizophranic as you were getting your medication from the Scarborough General Hospital in Toronto 2 years ago.
Vj ~ Well shouldn't you be welcoming me into your club of idiots instead? ilove: As for impersonating a woman on the boards, anyone can go to to the "search" strip over this message and print:(ShareenB) messages and discover that "SHE" was posting exactly the same stuff as your other psychosis immage "Jewelled-Spirit"..
Vj ~ Makes no difference even if you were a fag since then. ilove: How about that Jackass Singh? I suggest you take your medics regularly before you get locked up for good asshole..!
Vj ~ I wonder why so much concern over an "asshole", even one of a jackass?
Hello Rosamond - August 22, 2000 Rosa: ilovekristy: Good call. I see the same intractable whack-o I left on these boards months ago...what a total loser.
Vj ~ Better to be an "intractable whack-0" and/or a "total loser" who sticks around than cowards who hit and run.
iIovekristy - August 22, 2000 ilove: Now, about the issue of rudeness Jewelled-Spirit, I was going to add you to my family jewelles, but you sighned your name "idiot", and we don't accept idiots in the family..
Vj ~How about "bogus" ones?
ilove: Goddby Vijai..I have a dog,
Vj ~ Unlike the master, it seems smart enough to know silence is golden. harryll - August 23, 2000 Harry: Hello VJ...You asked the question "what is wisdom?"..."Truth" equals "Reality and understanding Reality is to understand what is Truth...
Vj ~ So tell me jackass, when your science do find the truth of the origin of life, what will be the "reality" for the deprived dead of the past?
Jewelled-Spirit - August 26, 2000 JS: ilovekristy, Perhaps when your mental capacity grows enough...
Vj ~ Compulsion being so, I am almost certain it will never happen.
Dialogue 7 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: harryll - August 26, 2000 Harry: Being TRUTHFUL about nature, reality and science could NEVER, EVER be something that is in OPPOSITION to God... Vj ~ But it does oppose the human conscience and simple common sense when a question is deliberately ignored. For the umpteenth time, I am asking you again. Harry: harryll: You asked the question "what is wisdom?"..."Truth" equals "Reality and understanding Reality is to understand what is Truth...
Vj ~ So tell me jackass, when your science does find the truth of the origin of life at some time in the future, what will be the "reality" for the deprived of the past??
Joe_Bogus - August 27, 2000 Joe: Singh -
Exactly what are the immutable laws of nature you would associate with taking a shit?
Vj ~ It is the act of always answering nature's call by excreting by the backside and never from any other organ of the physical human body. It is a law unchangeable from the very beginning and it will be until the end.
harryll - August 27, 2000 Harry: Hello VJ...I see you still spout that term "Immutable laws" of nature suggesting that somehow you know what they are and that they exist only within your religious dogma.....
Vj ~Jackass why not try to know something of my faith before dictating what "exist" or what doesn't in it?
Harry: As for your question about the "reality of the deprived of the past", the answer is simple, "ashes to ashes, dust to dust"...
Vj ~Then why bother looking for the truth (reality) of the origin of life when from the beginning to the end it is and will always be "ashes to ashes, dust to dust"? Harry: If we all (Mankind) were to disappeared overnight, nature would go on with hardly any notice....
Vj ~ And if we weren't humans (mankind) with intellects to grow or advance who else would have noticed it? If it is all for naught, why did we ever bother to 'evolve' at all?
Harry: Try to think about this; if religion didn't offer any reward as inducement, how many people would it really attract...
Vj ~Try to think about this jackass, if science didn't offer any reward (money) as inducement, how many people (scientists) would it attract? You are the most stupid ignorant jackass I have ever come across.
You are a disgrace to the human race and a travesty to good reasoning and science.
It is the same question one might ask of universities, who would be attracted to it if there were no rewards of degrees or certificates. Our whole lives are surrounded by purpose and yet you can be so blatantly naive in rejecting them. Even a dumb jackass has a purpose, but the poor fellow being stupor doesn't know it, what's your excuse? Harry: Hello VJ....You are a victim of those who first introduced you into your religion.
Vj ~ Aren't you a victim also of those "who first introduced you into your" science? It is rather strange, or in your case plain stupid, that one who brags of such great scientific achievements cannot respond directly to the rebuttals at hand. You know nothing of natural laws and its functions of design and order, so how can you argue for or against the subject? All you do, like some dumb parrot, keep repeating yourself over and over. I don't see you as any different (a totally sick brain) from the David Kuresh you speak about.
jackass harryll - August 28, 2000. Harry: Hello VJ......Who's kidding whom???..
Vj ~Probably you may never realize it, but it is you, kidding yourself, but all jackasses do.Harry: Show me the latest medical breakthrough by one of your Vedic scientists, show me one who has landed on the moon...
Vj ~ I have given you better than that an emancipated soul while embodied never needed a cure (preventive science) and is now consciously roaming the whole universe, beyond all the moons and suns of billions and billions (endless) of galaxies. Your science is yet to discover the origin of the soul/life or even matter.
Harry: ....Steve Tripod gave an excellent Vedic history lesson in posting # 1384....It is a brief synopsis based entirely on demonstrable historic fact, not religious fable....
Vj ~ Typical of a jackass with no brains, who sees excellence and fact in 'Vedic' history from a non-Vedic rather than a true Vedic. Harry: You, of course, have never been able to answer for, or dispute that ugly history ....
Vj ~How can I when a jackass can't read?
Harry: It shows how oppressive, stupid and dangerous your views really are, especially concerning women....
Vj ~ There is nothing more "oppressive, stupid and dangerous" than telling a woman, she is a descendant of apes.
Dialogue 8 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: IronFlames - August 28, 2000 Iron: VJ I am amazed that you are still alive! Vj ~And why does it not amaze me, that you are a living-dead (zombie)?Iron: I cannot believe no one came to your house and beat you to death.
Vj ~My soul, which cannot be destroyed, is in the hands of my God, it is He who decides whether I live or die, not an idiot like you. But unlike most, I am ready for the next world, are you? Iron: tsk, tsk, tsk such a shame. You are biological bile descended from the bottom of the filthiest sludge and scum pond ever seen.
Iron:
Vj ~ On the contrary, I use my time to seek the wisdom of the Rishis of yore, so that I can become wise for the benefit of humankind. But if an idiot (ironflame) spends all his life looking for "the filthiest sludge and scum", it is what the idiot will not only find but become at some time, a terrible burden to this planet.Iron: Your self-appraisal and ignorant views are stunning, even a second grader can answer a question better than you.
Vj ~ If this is true, then you and the other pack of idiots are deserving of worst for seeking answers from one less than "second-grader". Iron: And why have you not answered Steve Tripods accusations--- Because they are true?
Vj ~ Nothing new really, it is these kinds of "true" that makes a fool sounds 'wise'.Iron: That your religion is the scourge of the earth, A tyrannical slap in the face to all woman.
Vj ~ Not all women, my mother, for one, was wise enough to know the difference. Iron: Vedic religion, what a fucking joke, just as most religions are. And you are the biggest joke of all, a small, insignificant, little man trying to be a portrayer of a crappy, made up, third rate religion.
Vj ~That would depend on whose interpretation of the Vedic religion a fool would accept and what he truly knows of any religion for that matter.Iron: The David Koresh you mention I am sure sounded a lot like you and your pompous views monkey boy.
Vj ~On the contrary, it is you (like David Koresh) who spoke of my death, simply because you are too dull in intellect to put up with a difference of (rational) opinion or freedom of speech. Iron: I really feel sorry for anyone that falls for your web of deceit, like poor blind Jewell. What a shame, what a shame indeed.
Vj ~ You should feel sorry for yourself since you are blind (with nothing to offer) seeking to lead the blind. Certainly, if my faith is that destructive, it would have been in your best interest, and those you pity, to offer a way out. But like a jackass who has nothing to offer, you seek to save the world from one who has.
Joe_Blow_Bogus Joe: IronFlames
VJ....but lacks substantive knowledge.
Vj ~ I don't see how even less than that could be of any benefit to a fool.
harryll Harry: Hello VJ....I have to ask, are you retarded, or do you just sound like you are?????...
Vj ~ I must be a genius - I didn't have to ask if you "just sound" like a jackass, I always knew you were one.
Harry: Again VJ,,,You don't consider or really answer anything that is brought to your attention......
Vj ~ Do you really think a jackass is deserving of it? So convenient for you, to ignore what you can of mine, and complain of me not answering yours. Well, if you weren't such a lame brain you would have noticed that the few answers given by me were far too good for all the shit you have spouted so far. Harry: How can you possibly believe that it is fruitless to learn ANYTHING until we know EVERYTHING about God and His purposes.???...
Vj ~ Here we go again...How is it possible to "know everything about God" when you idiots have already deprived millions and perhaps billions to come? Is God, when you idiots find one, only for those in the future? Harry: If studying your Vedic religion would make one as crazy as you are, why would they want to do it.?????...
Vj ~ How do you know jackass, that you are not already crazy? Have you ever met a lunatic who admitted to being crazy? Harry: It is by living, experiencing and by testing that one finds individual "truths" or facts about anything...
Vj ~ It is only a jackass like harryll that is living who would be dumb (stupor), not wanting to experience and test or examine a religion (Vedic) before refuting it.
Harry: My entire life, even after retirement, (after 50 years) has been spent in science, medicine, electronics, computer, and communications...Among many other technical experiences, I physically built the power supplies used in the very first U.S. satellites (SNAP 10A series) and specialized in cryptography for the U.S. Army....
Vj ~ It was your livelihood like everyone else who played their part in this creation, if you haven't yet noticed. But it will be highly ignorant of me to boast of what I have done for the world while remaining in dense ignorance of the origin of my soul (life). Harry: On the other hand, VJ's grasp of knowledge concerning any of the sciences is that of a child....
Vj ~ True, I may only be a child to the vast wisdom of the Vedas, but Like a jackass you will die, like so many before you, neither knowing where you came from nor your destination, in spite of all satellites you built.
Dialogue 9 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: harryll - September 2, 2000 Harry: Hello VJ....You don't hear or understand anything except the empty foolish rattling that goes on in your own obsessed mind... Vj ~ You should thank me for making you feel at home since all a jackass do is " the empty foolish rattling" (braying) sound based on the "TRUTH" without "REALITY" over and over.
There is no Truth without the knowledge of life's origin and moreso matter, the material cause of the universe.
IronFlamesIron: VJ I just wanted to let you know that your ass is being drilled into slack surrender on another message board" singssong"
Vj ~ Since I am here could it not be your ass or their own. You never know, clouded with so much stupidity a fool can really hurt himself that way. Rather brave too! This is what I would call a bunch of proud fags. Iron: And deservedly so because you are an asshole who demeans everyone�s religion.
Vj ~ And deservedly you should thank me - Where would fags be without "an asshole"? Iron: You should see the truth of your religion that is being raped through the mud.
Vj ~ Now the fags have become pigs! Iron: And if all that shit is true than you are a complete fool who understands nothing about the very religion you care to forward.
Vj ~ Where is the gratitude? If all that is really "shit" by your own admittance, then you fag-pigs should be very happy.
Iron: Like I have always thought since my first posting, a truly pathetic little man trying to claim wisdom when he does not even know what that word means .Later Shem.
Vj ~ Why would it matter if it is in wisdom or ignorance this "truly pathetic little man" has made you fag-pigs so happy with "asses" and lots of "shit" and "mud".
Iron: VJ still did not answer #1384.
Vj ~ You of all person wouldn't want an answer, that would eliminate your homosexual and natural-pig lifestlye.Iron: If that was an answer then you're on crack.
Iron:
Vj ~ Better than being a fag-pig in "shit" and "mud" any day!
Iron: You are right I must be an idiot for speaking with a fool like you.
Vj ~ If I am right you are still "an idiot", even if I am a fool. Iron:
Oinkos Oinkus: Haryll, it's hard to see why you make the effort of speaking VJ. He is an idiot.
Vj ~ How are you my friend? Welcome back! I see that your leave of absence have brought you much 'wisdom'. Now I am a lone "idiot" among so many 'wise' who come and go when they can't put up with my 'ignorance'.
JewelledSpirit JS: harryll: On the other hand, VJ's grasp of knowledge concerning any of the sciences is that of a child.... JS: If this is true, why should it bother you?
Vj ~ It is what I was saying along - if all is for naught, why should it even bother him, or others through him, to seek "TRUTH" and "REALITY" by any science.
d_toad d: Steve_tripod claims in 1384 that Vedic the tradition of female infanticide was because of the economic burden of marriage.
Vj ~That is his claim not mine. If you truly want to know of my claim, then be my guest. d: I think it was because they are really homosexuals......
Vj ~ What you think is meaningless to me.d: After all if all of the girls are gone where are all of those healthy young men going to turn????
d:
Vj ~ Perhaps you should pay them a visit, who knows, you may enjoy it.
d: Thus explaining the failure of religion in that part of the world.
Vj ~ The same is occurring in these parts also even among atheists, so who is really succeeding?
d: Ending male / female coupling meant there would be No evolution and they couldn't keep up with other religious groups. It's like that isn't it VJ?
Vj ~ Sure it was, are you happy now?
Dialogue 10 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: harryll - September 5, 2000 Harry: Hello VJ, Jewel and all....By definition, "science" is the sum of Man's universal knowledge of the world around him (nature)..... Vj ~ What is the source of this "science" and knowledge of "nature"? Harry: It is a very exacting and systematic collection of data requiring testing and proof before being accepted
Vj ~And who has doubted this so far?
Harry: .....VJ denies ALL of this vast knowledge simply because it fails to explain (to his satisfaction) the source of his "soul"...
Vj ~ You cannot explain the source of your own soul, why would I expect your science to explain mine? Furthermore, all I am claiming is that any sciences that cannot explain the origin of life or matter and in conformity with natural laws, is inferior. Harry: The truth is that VJ's premise, what he WANTS to believe, is that it (science) is all false...
Vj ~ As a matter of fact, most of your theories, as evolution of man from a lower creature, through your science are in violation to natural laws, and therefore, many are false. Harry: If Vj can get anyone to foolish enough to believe in his premise then they will automatically be foolish enough to believe in VJ's ridiculous substitute of reality and truth that he spouts on these boards....
Vj ~ It is not a matter of believing, but rational investigation or as you called it, "testing". Have you tested the Vedic philosophy? Harry: But VJ is not only ignorant of reality, he is also ignorant of the centuries old history of the "Vedic" followers lives....
Vj ~ It is not "old history" that proves the authenticity of ancient Vedic civilization, but natural laws, in that all things finite (created) decay from purity and perfection. Harry: It is like a farmer who continually claims to be the only one having farming wisdom yet even after many centuries, he has NEVER had a successful crop...
Vj ~ It is not those with degrees in the science of Agriculture that usually farm the land either. I wonder what went wrong with your mode of testing when it comes to examining the Vedic religion? Harry: I personally don't give the Vedic religion any more credence than any of the other religions, but VJ's fanatic claims and conclusions are a joke......
Vj ~ How could you jackass, give it credence over any other religions when you haven't even investigated it? I am hoping that you would carefully respond to the above rather than spouting more of your meaningless bullshit.
Oinkos Oinkus: Actually VJ, you're not the only idiot on these boards.
Vj ~You should know, O 'wise' one. Oinkus: As you seem to have a sense of humor about this, I think I will read your page.
Vj ~ Reading alone is not the answer to good reasoning
Oinkus: Well reading is a start,
Vj ~ Most certainly, but you must know that true knowledge does not end with reading, but by reasoning (contemplation to remove doubts). Oinkus: O Great VJ, Master of the Ancient Vedic Wisdom.
Vj ~Only shows how far more you have to go since only yesterday (your previous post) I was an "idiot". Oinkus:
harryll Harry: Hello Jewel........What questions have you asked me that I have avoided.????..
Vj ~Ah! Only the wise will come to know you. Typical of a jackass to be dumb when it suits him, which is always. Harry: You have repeatedly asked why I'm picking on VJ but you don't seem to follow my careful (although obviously abbreviated) justifications for each of my criticisms....
Vj ~ And when it concerns me you willingly give a response, but when it is a threat to your "TRUTH and REALITY" you completely ignore it. Harry: The one constant on this board is that you BOTH are only interested in having people spend considerable time and effort in researching your Vedic religion, but I still that ask that same (an obvious) ONE SIMPLE QUESTION....
Vj ~ Hey lame-brain it is your method of "Testing" and "examining" for proof, that we are simply propagating. Unless they only apply to your science and everything else can just go to hell.
Harry: That is to show us all that such a huge effort will provide us with ANY REWARDS and give us knowledge that is SUPERIOR to all else including all of science....
Vj ~ The reward is that you are scientist, among an elite few, while most are not gifted (punishment) with such scientific minds. Harry: Give us all some EXAMPLES of the success that you guarantee comes with that effort...
Vj ~ The abstruse science of the Divine cannot be exhibited as material (objective) evidence but by the invisible (subjective). Unless you are prepared to do your own investigation, you will remain the jackass you are, even if God 'physically' made an appearance as proof.
Harry: You really CAN'T, can you????...
Vj ~ Not that we can't, it is impossible since there is no cure for a fool. Harry: In summation, your claims are the most preposterous ones that I've seen on any of these boards...
Vj ~ So are yours too my friend. Do really think it is easy to swallow your bullshit that man evolves from lower creatures and that language is acquired from instinctive knowledge (state of stupor), both in violation of natural laws.Harry: Show me that you are both not just religious fanatics, interested in promoting Vedic--at all costs...
Vj ~ It is a travesty to this wisdom to even try to prove anything of this nature to a complete jackass who blatantly refuses to do his own investigation.
Harry: In your religiously fanatic recruiting effort, you have sacrificed all honesty, logic and reason.......
Vj ~ And where is your "honesty" in investigating this philosophy. Any bigot who can be so bias and prejudice to denounce such philosophy without investigating it can hardly be called a man, much less to speak of "logic" and "reasoning". Harry: Fortunately for you, we are living in societies that don't outlaw STUPIDITY....
Vj ~ If such a law should come into place it would be done by a wise society, versed in knowledge of the origin of life and matter, which obviously means that you could be the first to be incarcerated.
Dialogue 11 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: Oinkos - September 6, 2000 Oinkos: I am sure that I have far to go, Vj ~ Not to mention, you haven't even started yet.
Oinkos: but my earlier comment was a joke.
Vj ~ Was it joke also on the "Singh Song" board? It is sad indeed for those who would curse the bridge, that they would later have to walk on.Oinkos: You need to learn some humor VJ and I'll look at your site.
Vj ~ Humor is best enjoyed after the soul is saved. All other humor are momentary joy only. So laugh on my friend until then.
harryll Harry: All that I ask him to do was to try to substantiate these wild and ridiculous claims...
Vj ~ And all I am saying, is that a wise man does not have to "substantiate" any claim, however "wild and ridiculous" to a stubborn jackass.
Harry: Hello Jewel....You keep suggesting that if I follow VJ's advice
Vj ~ You won't be as stubborn as a jackass. Harry: Let's give him another simple example and see how he does...How about the simple math tables, I'm sure that they aren't specifically included in the Vedic text????...Does that mean that 2 times 2 really doesn't equal 4.?????....
Vj ~ I am quite sure now that the simple blueprint for an aluminum-built aircraft was not found in bauxite mine either. If all things were specifically included in all source knowledge, then even the brainless (you a perfect example) would have been scientists. Harry: Mathematics was used to place men on the moon and return...None of those thousands of formulae involving mass, acceleration, inertia, etc...were included in VJ "source" yet they all seem to work...
Vj ~ What good would have been mathematics jackass, if you didn't know how to count? Maths by itself is useless so was the New World until Columbus pointed the way? The "impossible" becomes possible only when the way is shown and never before. Harry: Of course, according to VJ, we are all so stupid as to accept (non-Vedic based) mathematics as FACT....
Vj ~ Except for Einstein, the Germans and few other Western scholars who in the last century held the Vedas, and not some monkey in the past, the source all sciences. Harry: We should have VJ down at those launch-sites to straighten them all out....
Vj ~ What difference would it make, whether it is on this board or "those launch-sites" you are still a stubborn jackass that won't change? Harry: Hello VJ....It's good that you finally made some attempt at answering...(the math table example)....
Vj ~ I wish I could say the same for you. Perhaps if you were as half as good as I am in responding, you could have elevated yourself back to some rational human intelligence. Harry: Your explanation and reasoning infers that, since Vedic religion is the alleged "source" of simple counting, than the higher forms of math should also be credited to being "Vedic" in source....
Vj ~ Well if you could only "infer", you would have known that as you were taught maths, so were the teachers before and that at no time anyone, deprived of a teacher, would be able to count. So jackass, why can't you infer that those in the past, with the exception of none, had to be taught as we are and those in the future will be? It is by far a more rational opinion that the first human was given instructions from a higher source (Vedas) rather than that of some ape. If you cannot get past this issue, it would make no sense to argue what the Vedas contain. Harry: Addressed to Jewelled Spirit: It is one thing to have a religion or faith, but it is quite another to insist that it be a SUBSTITUTE for all reality and truth as VJ does....
Vj ~ It is one thing to have an opinion, but quite another to be a stubborn jackass not to investigate other opinions (philosophy), even if it is to ascertain yours to be true.Harry: Why this doesn't offend you is a complete mystery to me....
Vj ~ harryll, the human having the intelligence of jackass is the "mystery" to me.
Harry: Hello VJ....Try to understand that the "math" (just like many other subjects) that was taught hundreds of generations past was very primitive and elementary...
Vj ~ That would depend on what generation of monkeys you are talking about.
A primitive human race would have been long extinct without science."The supremacy of man among all terrestrial beings takes its rise from his capacity of finding systematic and progressive knowledge. Now the ultimate source of that knowledge, without whom forming a philosophical conception of knowledge absolute would be impossible, i.e., truth that cannot be gainsaid, affirms the Vedas as the revelation from the All-knowing God. It gives the age of creation to be 1,960,853,057 years old. This age is in harmony with all scientific discoveries so far." Life and Teachings of Swami Dayanand. If it was primitive and elementary how were the great sages of the past able to calculate the age of the universe? Harry: But, according to your "Guru" philosophy, Mankind is incapable of improving his knowledge and/or learning anything on his own....
Vj ~ Jackass, we said and maintain, with the exception of none, one's knowledge cannot improve without a teacher.
Harry: Your claims are so ridiculous it is amazing that others don't just blow you off this board....
Vj ~ Why others and not you, jackass? I am quite sure, being stupor in intellect, your two rear feet can supply you with enough force to blow me away. Harry: Hello Jewel.....Please tell me just what it is that you find so compelling in ANYTHING that VJ says....
Vj ~ Being such a compassionate and kind-hearted soul she might not want to openly admit that you are a stubborn and dumb jackass. Harry: Try to be SPECIFIC without just telling me that I don't understand you or VJ....
Vj ~ To begin with, a jackass is stupor, how will you be able to understand her. Harry: Again, tell me what there is to understand.....
Vj ~ No one can teach understanding, you will have to do it by your own effort, which so far you have refused to do - investigate!
Dialogue 12 Back to contents Rebuttal from: Ironflames - September 8, 2000 Iron:VJ I am sick Vj ~ No doubt about it, anyone who believes the origin of man is from a lower creature got to be sick.
Iron:of yelling and cursing at you
Vj ~ Well, I don't know about you, but I was enjoying it. I only hope others can follow in your footsteps and do the same.Iron:so lets try a reasonable discussion in which no one demeans each other.
Vj ~ You mean where no one demeans you? The ignorance of believing that man can teach himself, in itself, is demeaning to the human conscience. The answers you seek have all been answered, just continue reading my posts of the past. harryll Harry: Hello VJ....You say that "knowledge cannot be improved without a teacher"....Fortunately, that ridiculous statement is disproved millions of times DAILY by those doing research...
Vj ~ So jackass did they begin this research just after they came out from their mother's womb? Didn't they all went to school (taught) and graduate to begin the experience of improving their skills by research. Harry: They are learning things that were NOT KNOWN previously, which means that NO guru-like, all knowing "teacher" was necessary as you claim that they MUST BE....
Vj ~ Yes shit-head, they all went on to learn more, but why aren't we all scientists? Better yet, without the aid of teachers, why are there no scientists among the tribesmen of the Kalahari? Whatever they come to know, that was known previously, is due to the inclination of the soul from a previous birth.Harry: How do you explain the increase of knowledge that is evident (even to a jackass taking advantage of it by using these boards), was your "guru" ever on the Internet????...
Vj ~ He IS, if you weren't that stupid to check it out, and his teachings will continue to spread and bring happiness to those with brains and fearless of honest inquires.
Harry: If HE lived many centuries ago, how could HE know of all of the technical advances....
Vj ~ It is you who need the answers so why don't you read his works for a start?Harry: If HE is the only "source" of knowledge then how is this growing wealth of learning being done with NO SIGN of Him being USED or NEEDED.?????...
Vj ~ So did you always had bring along your teacher on every project of your scientific career, however disastrous it turned out to be? His source of knowledge, if accepted instead of rejected, would enhance our planet, not destroying it as your "growing wealth of knowledge" does. But again, if a jackass isn't thirsty you can't make him drink, can you? Harry: Who is kidding who.??????...Fortunately, Mankind is not as stupid as you would like to believe them to be...
Vj ~ Wise men, while disseminating truth, can only have pity for the lost souls of this world - atheists, evolutionists, Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, etc. and all the others who think they are not stupid and really think they are going somewhere. Harry: That's too bad because if they were then you could get your wish...
Vj ~ I guess you are one 'happy' soul, since you are among the majority (fools), it seems that you have got a wish I have no desire for. Harry: That wish is to be important and recognised as an authentic representative of God and one whose "words" should be treated as such....
Vj ~ Even if I am, how would a dumb jackass like you, who knows neither the source of life nor matter, ever know? Harry: You could then tell them EVERYTHING that they need to know...(Boy, talk about a SICKEE!!!)...
Vj ~ I am doing that right now, but it seems you are a good example of what many are - don't "need to know" or already know.
Ironflames Iron: VJ ANSWER THE QUESTIONS AND STOP BEING EVASIVE!!!
Vj ~ I am not evading, I just know when an idiot has already found his 'truth' and whatever answer I give won't make a differenceIron: Its simple just type the words, buddy.
Vj ~ Here you are the "words" - check out my past posts. Iron: And please, I beg of you, do not give me any, refer to this or that, just answer the questions. That is all I want.
Vj ~ If it was so simple, do you think we would have a world of fools? I am the one giving the answers and you are the one in 'need' of them, so it would make a lot of sense to do as I say.
Dialogue 13 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: harryll - September 10, 2000. Harry: Hello VJ....All of this vast knowledge was done WITHOUT a teacher... Vj ~ The problem with idiots like you harryll, is that you believe as fact that we have now become civilized. This cannot be true since progression upwards is a breach of natural laws. As long as you are ignorant of natural laws and their sustenance of design, law, and order you will never be able to ascertain what is true or false. Simply because a few thousand years ago man lived like savages, doesn't mean that a civilized society did not exist before. It is only humans of weak intelligence need the objective (tangible proof) before accepting, but wise men rely on the wisdom of the correct knowledge, that is in harmony with reasoning, science and in conformity with natural laws, which is above all "theories", "facts" and "realities" of your present scientific discoveries. You will never, ever come to know any better by the continued pampering of your selfish ego.
Harry: That is because a "teacher" can only pass on knowledge that THEY KNOW,
Vj ~ Very true, first sensible thing you have said after 1500 posts. Yes, whatever a teacher knows, that is what he/she will pass on, but without a teacher, no one can begin to pass on or improve on what has been originally taught. Likewise, the first human had to be taught to pass on what we now know.
Harry: they are LIMITED to THAT unless they search for new discoveries of knowledge....
Vj ~ Again, how do you know it is "new" and not re-discovered. Ancient teachers (Rishis of yore) were not limited according to the immutable law of nature - decadence (teachers limited in knowledge) from purity or perfection (teachers of unlimited knowledge). They knew the origin of the primary efficient cause of the universe, the secondary efficient cause (life) and the material cause of the universe (matter) which you and teachers of today don't know. When a man is limited in knowledge, it is not because it is not available, but because of their ignorance to seek it. Would it be sensible for a nomad in some remote region who never saw or heard of a TV to say that such knowledge does not exist anywhere or at any time yet? Certainly not to you, because you already know it does exist. The same applies to you as a nomad of this knowledge who is unaware of the sages of yore's wisdom because of your ignorance.
Harry: You keep saying that all of this is limited to "scientists" but cooking is a science of sorts and discovering new foods and recipes DON'T REQUIRE any teacher...
Vj ~ I am specifically targeting science because your discussions so far are based solely on it. I am quite sure you were taught and did not become a scientist before that.
Harry: Another point that I saying is that I don't question what GOD KNOWS, on your knowledge of HIS knowledge....
Vj ~ How can you, when you know nothing of my "knowledge of His knowledge"? And it is simply common sense also, that you cannot put up a rational argument when you haven't the slightest idea of the knowledge (mine) that contradicts yours. I am saying that I have a blue cat, and you are saying that there is no such thing as a blue cat, without even bothering to take even a peek at my cat. Harry: You keep trying to represent HIM, DON'T YOU.????
Vj ~ I am only representing, as it is the most rational thing to do, the source of all knowledge (man had to be taught). It is the ignorant who argue their knowledge before or without a source.
harryll Harry: Hello VJ....To illustrate your point, you used a fictitious "blue cat",
Vj ~ Haven't you noticed that my faith is also fictitious and will continue to be as long as you refused to investigate it?
Harry: but all I've ever asked you to do is provide a REAL illustration of the Vedic superiority, something that we ALL can check and verify...
Vj ~ I don't really think a jackass like you, by any means, would have much respect for the credibility of these two gentlemen."We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein
"India is the cradle of the human race, the birthplace; human speech, the mother of history, grandmother of legend, and great grandmother of tradition. Our most valuable and most instructive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only." Mark Twain.
Again, the truth of the Vedic philosophy requires one's own inquiries and contemplation, not some artifacts buried deep down somewhere in Africa. Harry: After all of these millions of converts and the many centuries of time, why is it that you can't give us any examples at all.???????...
Vj ~ You have examples also, but it is only your own and yet the majority do not support your theory. Why? It simply shows that good reasoning guided by the correct knowledge which must be in conformity with natural laws is the only path to the truth of ourselves and our universe.Harry: Another silly that you do is argue the degree that we, or any other society, are "CIVILIZED"...Regardless of your critical evaluation of it, Mankind has historically NEVER been content with any current degree of civilization
Vj ~ Are you really a jackass on two legs? Who is speaking of contentment idiot? Haven't we progressed from horse-drawn carriages to automobiles; from mud-huts to brick-homes; from mud-roads to paved ones, etc. If we are not content it is because we haven't re-discovered the truth that has long been lost. Harry: that is the NEED for HUMAN DIGNITY....
Vj ~ What "dignity" is there when man only work, play, fight, eat, sleep and shit, knowing neither his origin nor his destination? Do you really think the dignity of a jackass and a human are the same?Harry: and has always worked to improve his level of civilization...
Vj ~ Man need "to improve" his level of reasoning without it "civilization" as we know it, is of no benefit to the human soul. In spite of your science and civilization, you do not know the origin and final end of life and matter. You keep ignoring this point every time I bring it up. Is this the way you hope to seek the truth? Harry: You have nothing but hatred toward Mankind, regardless of how you try to hide that fact...
Vj ~ It is even worse when a man hates himself as much as you do. P.S
Harry: Hello Jewel.....We really DON'T know who the first person was that discovered 1 + 1 = 2, DO WE.????..Nor can we ever find out...It would be a nice gesture to honor that person's name (if possible), but...
Vj ~ Wouldn't we have loved to honor the first ape that brought forth a human also?
JQOE JQ:It seems to me that those people who do not believe in God do so, in many cases, because they feel they can do a much better job of it themselves.
Vj ~ Be honest to yourself my friend, in spite of it, they are by far more rational in thinking than the majority who just "believe in God".
JQ:They claim an all-knowing view of the universe, life and death, etc., and further say that God can't exist without their "proof".
Vj ~ When the creator is false as established by irrational dogmas, believers still haven't found the God the atheists are looking for.
JQ:Life is quite beyond our simple definition, it has and can exist quite well without us, but to truly acknowledge Life for what it is, beyond us and with us, one must realize the presence of what is commonly known as - God.
Vj ~ Our way of life without the proper reasoning habits makes God only a definition also. We must strive to know him (invisible) by subjective means. Even though not all of us have the inclinations, compulsion being so, to seek the truth, we are all committed to making the effort necessary.
Dialogue 14 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: Joe_Bogus - September 11, 2000
Joe:Singh - you want to lay the commentary of 2 individuals as verifiable proof of Vedic tradition etc...Neither Twain nor Einstein indicated it was the Vedics. Vj ~ It is those who needed to be convinced of the Vedic tradition that will have to do their own research (investigation). I am merely showing the way.
Joe:All they indicated was India.
Vj ~ That would be enough for anyone with a little common sense to begin his/her search.
Joe:India, as you are well aware, is predominately Hindu with a strong mix of Christianity.
Vj ~ It simply means that India today has a predominantly "strong mix" of ignorance due to Hinduism and Christianity and you should fall in comfortable with that.
Joe:Perhaps these two gentlemen were referring to the Hindus or the Christians?
Vj ~ So when the world speak of the scientific (space) achievements of the Americans, moonwalk and Mars discovery, do think they should also refer to Native Americans?
Ironflames Iron:VJ or jewelled Spirit answer the questions for post #1507.
Vj ~ As I have mentioned numerous times before there are really no cure for a fool. The answers have already been given, but if the fool is too lazy to look for it, then the wise will be indeed foolish to waste any more time over it. Iron:The only reason you don't is that you can not.
Vj ~ Hey you must be proud of yourself, you have finally got me beaten - good for you. Aren't you happy now?
Iron:They are very simple questions that wise men/woman (lol) could answer by themselves.
Vj ~ It seems you are wise enough to know who is wise and therefore you must already know the answers. I am indeed happy for you.
Iron:So come on give it a whirl. What have you got to lose, ten minutes of typing?
Vj ~ It is not the "ten minutes of typing" that is the problem, but the idiot I have to do it for.
harryll Harry:Hello Vj and Jewel....Nowhere in my past comments have I debated the existence of God or our "souls"....
Vj ~ How could you jackass when you have no knowledge of them? You should be thankful for the opportunity of seeking it now.Harry:Those things were NEVER the subject of my questions to VJ, yet that's all I'm getting in response...
Vj ~ Well, without a Maker (God and soul, primary and secondary efficient cause) nothing can be made and they are relevant to the "TRUTH and REALITY" your arguments are based on. I see no reason why a human being must feel that he/she has come to serve no purpose on this beautiful and magnificent creation of ours unless he/she chose to remain an idiot, which he/she is free to do also. Harry:My question is very simple, having NOTHING to do with God or our souls....
Vj ~ Perhaps if it did, you would not have been the jackass you are now? How can you speak of reality and truth without discussion of the beginning or end? Harry:and all I've asked is that he give some examples of that alleged superiority...
Vj ~ Since you are adamant of "examples" why don't you give a few of those, except Tarzan, who were never exposed to a teacher and have taught themselves to be scientists in seclusion.
Dialogue 15 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: Ironflames - September 11, 2000 Iron: VJ you are a fool in search of wisdom. Vj ~ It is only the wise who knows a fool. I could have easily called you one (wise), but then again, a fool is never in search of wisdom.
Iron: A wise man you are not, a pretender you are.
Vj ~ Either way I am still happy, beat that pal! Iron: Just another moron entertaining the fool jewell,
Vj ~ Too bad you can't join the company of wise who are few. Iron: you so have so much to learn about life and people yet you are too blind to see past your long and thankfully lost religion.
Vj ~ Perhaps blind before but not anymore, now that we have you to lead us, O Great One! Iron: Ignorance is a deadly disease that you are breeding inside your demented little pea mind.
Vj ~ Now that you know, what would you recommend for a cure - your stupidity? Iron: I have read your pages and they are garbage, they go against everything that is man, whether you like it or not.
Vj ~ Are those the only pages that are garbage on the net, if not, you have a lot of work to do. And if you are an example of "man" the world is indeed in serious trouble.Iron: For one who knows so very little about science and nature it amazes me how you can preach your virile crap with the illusion that you are actually a vessel of God.
Vj ~ Well, it doesn't really take much to amaze an idiot. It seems you have the same problem when you have no knowledge of God, otherwise, how would you know if I am a "vessel of God" or not? Iron: You�re a wannabe, plain and simple.
Vj ~ Thanks, you are a born hero, no one called me that before.
Iron: So go and try to learn something about life and not what you've read in your silly, little, nonsensical books.
Vj ~ You are the instructor why not tell me where to look for a "something about life"? Iron: The mind is a terrible thing to waste and your wasting away.
Vj ~ At the very least, it is better to have one to waste (me) than none at all (you).Iron: Trapped in your own self-denial, your four walls are closing in and I hope just before they slam shut you will open your eyes and see the real truth.
Vj ~ What an injustice to the blind who would definitely be slammed shut by "your four walls" with no chance whatsoever to open their eyes to your "real truth"? Iron: Its out there waiting for someone just like you.
Vj ~ Really, so why not be "just" like me and it will be out there waiting for someone "just" like you also?
harryll Harry: Hello VJ....IronFlames's last comments on you are pretty mild compared to what most think of you, and you have earned every bit of it.....
Vj ~ Earned! I love every bit of it. As a matter of fact, I like it three ways - very mild, very harsh and anywhere between those two. I guess you too are comfortable being a jackass otherwise you wouldn't have kept coming back for more of it.
Harry: You can't answer even the most simple of questions in defense of your nonsense...
Vj ~ Here is one you can answer yourself - Are fools in the majority or minority? Now you know where you belong. Harry: All you can do is call everyone a "fool" because they don't follow you and your beliefs...(
Vj ~ Not everyone, you are a jackass, remember! Harry: Just out of curiosity, where are these Indian Vedics that idealize your beliefs.????...
Vj ~ What good would it be to you, a jackass could never recognize them. Harry: Is there any community, state or nation ANYWHERE that you can point-to and use as examples of this "correct knowledge".????...
Vj ~ I could, but you are only fit to recognize a stable. Harry: Hello Jewel....What is it that you find so appealing and "correct" with what VJ says here on these boards.????...
Vj ~ Intellectual reasoning, which could never appeal to one of a stupor mentality. Harry: Are you a "closet" Vedic.????
Vj ~ Way better than a "stabled" ridden evolutionist.
Jewelled_Spirit JS: But in order to understand what he is saying, you must be willing to see the message behind all the insults.
Vj ~ In spite of insults (therapy), the ego is still in command, compulsion being so. JS: You are unable or unwilling to do that, so you may never understand.
Vj ~ When the inclination is not there, there is perhaps, really no hope for this soul in this birth, it will definitely have to go through many more in pain and misery. How much more can we do?
JS: If I am, I am with pride. I see no dishonor in being Vedic.
Vj ~ May the Omniscient One inspire you to greater wisdom for the benefit your own soul and above all, all mankind. JS: Don't you think you should know what being Vedic means before you defame it?
Vj ~ Excellent question, but can this jackass (more therapy) on two legs and without long ears listen.
harryll Harry: I could care less about someone's religion, politics or for that matter, their mental state....
Vj ~ You really didn't have to say it jackass, it comes natural with the stupor state you are in.
Dialogue 16 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: 0wlgore - September 13, 2000 Owl: I'm depressed, fat, and my face is scarred from years of bad acne when I was younger. I have no friends, and people are always telling me to smile more often. I bought a gun recently, but I'm not sure what sort of bullets it takes. I don't even know why I bought it. I have this big red bubble like cyst growing on my cock. Vj ~ You are a very fortunate fellow and you don't even know it. The journey to salvation is an individual one. While many, perfectly built and handsome/beautiful have to struggle to abstain from the lust and sensuality it brings by attraction, you have no such problem. It makes it perfectly easy for you to practice complete celibacy or abstain from promiscuous sex, the most harmful sin to affect the soul. All you need now is to be shown the way (correct knowledge) and not a gun, and you are on your way.
harryll Harry: Is your "TRUTH" and "REALITY" to bore people to death?
Vj ~ You don't have to worry, you are already (living) dead.Harry: Hello Jewel....I have only asked ONE SIMPLE QUESTION, (from the start) which VJ has NEVER been able to answer...
Vj ~ Then we are even since you never answer the question of the origin of life and/or matter. Harry: "Science" is not owned or controlled by any single agency, group or nation...
Vj ~ Who said it was?Harry: accepting only an "interpretation" of Vedic scripture as the only true knowledge...
Vj ~ It stands, until you can refute it and so far you haven't even attempted to do so.
Harry: If any single one of them found the "source" and "correct knowledge" within those scripts that is supposedly superior to all other, then that lucky person could become world famous overnight...
Vj ~ How could they when the world is mostly all idiots like yourself? One came and raise the dead, a breach to natural laws, and such ignorance even made him more popular than anyone of your "TRUTH and "REALITY" scientists.
Harry: If it had such absolute "truths" then they would (by now) be taught in all schools just like reading, writing, math etc...
Vj ~ Really, by the same reasoning why is the theory of evolution still lagging in spite of it being taught in schools? It is not what one is taught only that leads to truth, but how well one can reason when guided with correct knowledge which you have blatantly evaded so far. And believe me, if ever it should be taught in school, you will be the first to reject it, as you do now.
Harry: The truth is that there is no mystery about what is within the Vedic scriptures...
Vj ~ It should be a "mystery" to you since you know nothing of it. If someone else have to do the inquires into it, that will still leave you an idiot.
Harry: It has already been studied and evaluated over the centuries, only a very naive person could believe otherwise...
Vj ~ So jackass, what is preventing you from doing your own evaluation?
harryll Harry: Tell the truth VJ,
Vj ~ I did, you are a jackass! Besides, what good would that be when a jackass is only looking for grass?
Harry: is that last message a good example of the "CORRECT KNOWLEDGE" that you insist each and everyone should wade through?????..
Vj ~ Well jackass, if you really had any brains left, the "good example of the correct knowledge" would be my site where you feared to tread. No wonder you find the time to feed on trash - more shit for the brain probably makes you feel good. Harry: I can't speak for anyone else, but my stomach couldn't stand much more of that nonsense as reading material....
Vj ~ How could your stomach stand it when all the shit is in your head?Harry: Do you really believe that they are God's own words and wisdom????...
Vj ~ Perhaps His way too of being compassionate to idiots when they find shit a relief in their ignorance. Harry: Oh, speechless again Jewel???, that's the way to hide from answering....
Vj ~ Silence is golden, maybe an idiot can learn the trick someday.
iIovekristy ilove: the ayurvedic medicine or the vedic shit MEDECINE Vedic medicine contains as ingredients human urine as well as that of cows and cow-dung. The latter two are supposedly sacred on account of the Aryan sacredness of the cow.
Vj ~ Very true these medicines came of age when the Muslims invaded India. It worked splendidly over centuries of Muslim rule - daily doses of it is the reason why the Muslims have lost dominance over India; and their (ayurvedic medicines) continued use in preparing these wicked souls (Muslims) for vegetation and animals of our next creation, is God's merciful plan.
Dialogue 17 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: d_toad - September 12, 2000 d: Hello VJ glad to see that your message count proceeds apace with your ability to answer. See ya later Vj ~ Whatever, but I can see the idea of making some "glad" is somehow working splendidly.
harryll
Harry: Hello VJ...From my very first posting, I've asked you some evidence of the benefit of wading through your Vedic board....
Vj ~ I would think by now you would have got the idea that you are an ignorant jackass, a very good reason to wade through my site.
Harry: VJ....Me "ignorant"????...
Vj ~ I don't know about your degrees but however I try to describe a jackass it brings the same result.
Harry: None of my degrees are in religion which seems to be the only subject that interests you....
Vj ~ None of your "degrees" so far have provided you the source of life or matter either. Your best bet, lame-brain, is that you try something else .
Harry: My interest in nature, science has lead me to a very successful life...
Vj ~ The Pope and the Dalai Lama have made the same claim also but without nature and science. Harry: I have found success in every field of endeavor that I tried,
Vj ~ To me you are still a jackass with no idea of where you (soul) came from and where you are going. When a man's material achievements are all that he has to brag about, know that he has succumbed to banality and fear. And probably his worst fear is to have it all ruined by any further investigations of anything new to him..Harry: What is it in your life that you find as evidence of success VJ.?????
Vj ~ I know by proper reasoning, in conformity with natural laws and Vedic wisdom, the origin of life and matter, where I came from and what happens to me after this existence.
Harry: We both agree on the importance of understanding "natural laws"...
Vj ~ Then how come you don't know the origin of man is from the reproductive element, a law unchangeable, as we are now and will always be in the future? There is only one treatise that can teach us the truth of the immutable laws of nature and you and your science don't have it.
Harry: Mine are from nature
Vj ~ And like a jackass who learns from nature also, you will always remain a jackass. So what is nature and where did it begin?Harry: unfortunately, yours are from your religion..... (having nothing to do with nature, only FAITH)...
Vj ~ Yes it is unfortunate that a jackass has no idea what my religion is, but can speak of my faith. Harry: Most people understand the difference, why don't you.??????...
Vj ~ Most people are jackasses like you that makes me proud to be in the minority of those who are familiar with natural laws and its true functions. Harry: Why do you insist on contorting NATURE (thus REALITY), trying to make it fit your religious based interpretations of what you would like it to be.??????
Vj ~ Why don't show me where I have done so? If I have it would have to be in contradiction to your interpretation.
Harry: You say that the origin of man is from the "reproductive element, a law unchangeable"...What is this, just more homemade, vague terminology to hide behind so as to avoid actual discussion????...
Vj ~ It seems you have a very serious problem of being always impotent and not the father of your children. No wonder you don't know the reproductive element (seminal fluid) is the cause of conception. Harry: The process of evolution is a very detailed description of the development of ALL life forms based on real evidence, on the other hand yours is just a pious sounding word game....
Vj ~ Well if you are jackass and have no idea of the functions of natural laws, then it will be a game.
Harry: As far as "nature" is concerned, we are just one of the many animals....Humiliating, isn't it.????
Vj ~ As far as "I" am concern a jackass doesn't have to worry.
Dialogue 18 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: xianzebala - September 15, 2000 Bala: Dung bread
Singhvj the Vedic Baboon sells fresh vedic cow curry shit .. Vj ~ "God tells Ezekiel to eat barley cakes that are made with the "dung that cometh out of man."Ezek.4:12
God trades "cow's dung for man's dung" and then tells Ezekiel to make bread out of the cow's dung. Ezek.4:15
Since Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have their origins from one source the Torah or Old testament then they too are familiar with the "dung" diet.
harryll Harry: Hello VJ...Good scriptural examples !!!!..It makes you wonder how anyone could believe ANY of them are directly the "word of God"...
Vj ~ In the same way, I wonder how much truth is in your statement when you haven't investigated them all. Harry: None of these various "scriptures" came from God's Holy Printing Press in heaven... They are all man-made, in short, written, collected, edited and translated by fallible mere mortals, not Gods....
Vj ~ Now if a jackass should make such a statement, I am sure your response would be - how would he know when he couldn't even read much less to do inquires? But since you can read but refuse to do genuine inquiries you would have to be more stubborn or stupid than the jackass for making the statement.
harryll Harry: Hello VJ....Using your same reasoning, one can argue that we can't be absolutely certain that jumping out a 40 story build will result in our death, until we really try it ourselves...
Vj ~ You shouldn't worry at all, since you are already there - brain-dead. Try to throw a jackass off a cliff, even as stupor as he is, he can smell (by instinct) the danger. So my friend, one with a little common sense will be smart enough to first sense the danger, and not if one lives or dies. Harry: The truth is that your "God's word" can't pass the most fundamental test of reality or rationality,
Vj ~ How could when it is idiots doing the test? And if you, unlike a jackass, couldn't sense the danger of jumping off a 40-story building until you have jumped, I wouldn't expect you to know the truth of my "God's word" either.Harry: even though Mankind has had many centuries to verify such evidence...
Vj ~ Such "evidence" as the origin of life and/or matter? Your evidence, even though available, still leaves you an idiot, how would mine make a difference in such a stupor state.Harry: As remarkable as we Huminoids are, all evidence shows that we are simply just one of the many earthly animal creatures...
Vj ~ Again you are a brainless twit, who is ignorant of the immutable laws of nature. Evolution (natural selection) points to progression (the best in nature is yet to come) as upwards a breach to the law that all things finite (created) must decay - progression downwards. In other words, man behaving like animals is more appropriate to decay rather than animal behaving like or becoming a man.
harryll Harry: Hello VJ..."all things must decay...progress downward"????...That is the logic of centuries past, created by those with almost no real knowledge of "nature" or natures "laws"...
Vj ~ How could it be a logic of the past only, when presently man, cars, houses, trees, the sun are all still growing old (decaying)? Unless by your science you are doing the reverse - in that case, you better start stocking up on diapers.
Harry: Your ignorant based "cause" was lost centuries ago when Mankind decided to investigate nature for himself rather than blindly trust the "sages" of the past...
Vj ~ It is an excellent idea no doubt to investigate nature, but aren't you, not only blind and ignorant but a bigot not to investigate the "sages of the past" also? Harry: True knowledge will survive any kind of investigation and isn't dependant on trusting only the "word" of past sages...
Vj ~ How many times I have got to say this jackass, "true knowledge" (truth) can only be ascertained, when all sources of knowledge are investigated and not only based on your ownHarry: I have a library of hundreds of books on science covering many fields of science...
Vj ~ I have only four in my library and by that alone I figure you to be human with a jackass brain. It seems you are still missing the one that can enlighten you to the origin of life and/or matter.
Harry: You are preposterously claiming that there is not one word of truth in any of them....
Vj ~ No jackass! I am saying that if there is, how would you know which word is the truth?
Dialogue 19 Back to contents
Rebuttal from:spiffy_trev - September 16, 2000 Trevor: with all due respect Vijai, you don't really know much about evolution. i don't know anything about your religion, so i won't say anything about it. i do, however, know about evolution. Vj ~ I know Trevor is the best student even though I know absolutely nothing of the other students in his class. How sensible is this statement? When you have figured it out, it is the condition of your level of thinking.
Trevor: there are two reasons that no creatures have evolved into humans in the past few thousand years.
Vj ~ There is one reason why none ever evolved into humans - the immutable laws of nature - which like everything else calls for any such event to be steady. Rain didn't come from something else before it steadily and repeatedly began pouring from the clouds. Trevor: first, no other strain of evolution could possibly create humans.
Vj ~ This is rather a stupid statement. What made the first "strain" active enough to do it and the others not? Trevor: other species may evolve into other intelligent beings, but they will most likely be quite different from humans.
Vj ~ Really! And do you know why the delay in spite of the millions or perhaps billions of years that have gone by? Trevor: second is the fact that evolution is a long process. most species that could someday be intelligent, would take tens of millions of years to evolve, not thousands.
Vj ~ Contradicting yourself - that is if the "strain of evolution" to create an intelligent being comes around again. Trevor: (for example: humans. it took us two million years to go from using simple tools and grunting, to where we are now).
Vj ~ This is call progress upwards another breach to natural laws which dictates that progression is always downwards.Trevor: you should research something before you try to shoot it down.
Vj ~ You should research everything before shooting down yourself. Trevor: i've read a lot of what vijai has to say, on different boards, and he hasn't made one good point yet.
Vj ~ The Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc., who, like you, have only researched nothing else but their own, all (non-evolutionists) have also said the same of me. Are you also as stupid as they are?
jared_000 Jared: So, was this golf player the same Vijai that I am writing to now?
Vj ~ What if I were, would you still hold me in high esteem for my wisdom also?
spiffy_trev Trevor: well, i'm glad that you read my post,
Vj ~ Besides being the nature of wisdom, it has always been my desire to make people glad Trevor: even if you didn't take the time to understand it.
Vj ~ And risk taken away your gladness, never. Trevor: and by the way, it's really useful to contradict everything i say out of context. (sarcasm)
Vj ~ Perhaps you don't know it yet - reasoning has been, is and will always be "out of context" for a fool.
Trevor: i never said i was the best student in my class.
Vj ~ I know, let's try it again perhaps your feeble mind may be able to grasp the logic of it. "I know Trevor is the best student even though I know absolutely nothing of the other students in his class.. Can evolution (best student) be the ultimate truth when you know absolutely nothing of my faith (the other students)? Trevor: just like you never said you were the best student of your religion.
Vj ~ But I can say, without any doubt, that I am in a better position to refute your belief (evolution) than you, mine. Trevor: when i try to explain something, you should actually read the paragraph, instead of treating each sentence as an individual.
Vj ~ Where else on these boards have I done otherwise? Besides, if your feeble mind cannot cope with the response of a single sentence I can't see how it can manage a whole paragraph? Trevor: a strain of evolution turning into humans has nothing to do with how "active" it is.
Vj ~ It had to be since it happened once and it couldn't again. What has been active can become inactive and what is inactive can become active. There is absolutely no other way. Trevor: it's just the fact that the sequence that led to us can only do so by following the exact same path.
Vj ~ And the "sequence" only worked once while everything else finite (created) are repetitive events following natural laws. Again "rain didn't come from something else before it steadily and repeatedly began pouring from the clouds." Likewise, it is rational to infer that humans did not evolve from something else (lower creature) before they steadily and repeatedly began pouring specifically from the reproductive element.
Trevor: obviously if you start with another species, you will end in a different place.
Vj ~ And what species have ended up in different places? If you don't know the origin of matter and life you will end up in no place at all (stupor).
Trevor: i'm not contradicting myself, pay attention to what is being said.
Vj ~ Like a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc. who only investigated their own, how would you know you are not contradicting yourself?
Trevor: many species are of various levels of intelligence (a dog is smarter than a slug, for example).
Vj ~ Animals are stupor and as such has no intelligence, but act on instinct. Humans have intelligence the reason why we cannot rely on our instinct. There is a huge difference between being intelligent (human) and being stupor (animal).
Trevor: who is to say that the dolphin (a semi-intelligent species, which can communicate with each other, and us on a simple level) is not halfway there.
Vj ~ Why worry about them when the tribesmen of the Kalahari (humans) are not there (in science) yet? Somehow, it seems they will need a helping hand with my theory where man must be taught.
Trevor: but i doubt you will be around thirty million years from now to see if they did advance.
Vj ~ Oh, I will be around (a sage) and so will you (a dolphin).
Trevor: i read the intro page from your link, and i will (before my next post) read what is in all the links.
Vj ~ Perhaps it is not too late.
Trevor: i hope to find these "natural laws" you speak of.
Vj ~ It is a law of nature and unchangeable that you must excrete by the backside, it was so from the beginning, it is so now and it will be so to the end. How could you have missed it with all the numerous visits you have made to the latrine?
Trevor: and by the way, i'm not shooting myself down because i'm basing my statements on my beliefs.
Vj ~ That is all you need to shoot yourself down.
Trevor: maybe they are contradicted by your beliefs, but nothing i have said is contradictory to anything else i have said.
Vj ~ Again Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc. all, according to their beliefs, see no contradiction in what they say, what makes you right and they wrong? In all belief systems, there are doubts, but when you have found ONE that is in harmony with reasoning and science, and in conformity, with natural laws, you found the truth.
Trevor: (for example: humans. it took us two million years to go from using simple tools and grunting, to where we are now).
Vj ~ This is called progress upwards another breach to natural laws which dictates that progression is always downwards. This is a law that evolution breaches also that you must not evade.
Dialogue 20 Back to contents
Rebuttal from: spiffy_trev - September 16, 2000
Trevor: you proved my point for me when you took what i was saying out of context. Vj ~ You have proven my point also when I said that truth is always out of context to a fool. Trevor: thank you for explaining the metaphor, but you are not in a position to refute evolution since you know very little about it,
Vj ~ You must be kidding who in their right mind would have continued a dialogue as long as this and responding to every sensible person (a very few) as well as so many idiots? How much do I have to know, if it is a breach to natural laws?
Trevor: while on the other hand, i have read what your page says.
Vj ~ I am quite sure your belief was not determined by one moment of simple reading. It is only fair to yourself that you must do the same for the opposing beliefs.
Trevor: also on the subject of contradiction, there is a difference between religion and science.
Vj ~ That would depend on what you call science and what you know of the true religion, the source of all sciences.
Trevor: and i'm afraid for your sake that your religion promotes a perverted kind or science, where you have unproven laws laid down, and anything that contradicts it is said to be nonsense.
Vj ~ It is one of two things, it is either perverted or you are. All I am saying, a fool is never in a position to determine which is.
Trevor: that is a closed minded and desperate attempt to find facts that support your beliefs, not science
Vj ~ Call it what you will. But when the claim is made of a source knowledge from a supernatural intelligent being, rather than some ape-man in the past, simple common sense will prevail in my case in spite of all your science.
Trevor: evolution in no way contradicts the concept of excretion. that example makes no point in this arena.
Vj ~ It does when the cause of the physical body is steady and repeated by the means of the reproductive element excepting the first humans why could excretion not occur at one time also by another means but the backside. It is very simple if these laws can be easily breached at one time who knows man probably used the nose at one time for hearing and the ears for smelling. If you disagree that these laws (of sensation) could never be breached, then the same carries for all laws including the origin of man.
Trevor: i can just as easily as you say that your beliefs are wrong if i base my arguments on my beliefs.
Vj ~ Maybe you haven't noticed that it is not difficult to become a fool either. Man had to be taught, it is the reason we always had centers of learning, and only a fool will try to prove otherwise.
Trevor: science is where we find the reasoning to prove our beliefs right or wrong, but since you won't consider scientific proof that contradicts your beliefs, you can not possibly be reasoned with.
Vj ~ Aren't there imprecisions among scientists also as Richardp pointed out? Science, as well as religion, are changing faces with every new discovery made. What is true today is false tomorrow. Truth has no new faces it is the same for all and for all ages. When you do find a source knowledge that is in harmony with reasoning, science and in conformity with natural laws, it is the source of all ethics, morals, and sciences.
Trevor: your law that says progression is always downward has no basis in the real (scientific) world.
Vj ~ How could it when it contradicts evolution?
Trevor: unless you can prove otherwise (without just repeating it from your religious books), your argument does not mean anything.
Vj ~ The theory of natural selection according to the science of evolution shows that the best is yet to come, but it seems this science is yet to give us cleaner and cleaner air to breathe in spite of all the 'progress' made in technology. The planet is dying which fits the law of progression downwards and yet you see no "basis" for it. What more proof do you need? The progress of man is measured by righteousness, (wisdom and purity) the highest and most abstruse of all sciences. When there is contentment only then man can live in universal harmony. That age is long gone and no religion or science can bring it back it is a law. But individually we can strive for contentment through the source knowledge which can be scrutinized, rejected or be lost but can never die. spiffy_trev
Trevor: wow. it's not often on these boards that a discussion ends in agreement.
Vj ~ All the reason to believe that truth hurts.
Trevor: this is quite refreshing. misunderstanding is usually the main cause of pettiness on these things.
Vj ~ Not if it is done in the interest of your own good.
Trevor: thank you, jewelled spirit, for not using pettiness, or assumptions, or insults. you have convinced me that there are intelligent people out there.
Vj ~ So whoever disagrees with you are non-intelligent?
Trevor: back to my example: one person comes up with numbers. based on that, another person comes up with addition. based on that another person comes up with subtraction. it is a linear progression with many contributors, but each contribution is an original, not taught.
Vj ~ An illiterate is one who cannot read or write. How can a complete illiterate void of language come up (invent) with numbers or even language without being taught?
Had scientific knowledge not put in place from the very beginning of human civilization the human race would have long been extinct. Our survival depends on it today, it will be necessary for the future and so we must infer that at no time in the past mankind ever lived without it.
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"Just as color cannot be perceived by ears, nor sound by eyes; in like manner, the Eternal Supreme Spirit is not perceptible to the senses. He can only be seen by a pure soul through the purity of heart, acquisition of knowledge and the practice of yoga. Just as one cannot reap the advantages of knowledge without acquiring it, likewise the Supreme Spirit cannot be seen without the practice of yoga and gaining the highest knowledge." The Light of Truth Translation |
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