|"When the time of destruction is at hand the intellect becomes perverted." Vridha Chan. 16:17.
TOPIC OF DISCUSSION
They also believe that is why the evil brood of animals, snakes, insects, and cats began to appear. Therefore, evil in the ancient faith is an external introduction, which one day will be purged when the world will be bathed with the purification of fire. Paradise itself will be established on the earth, in the form of the Kingdom of Ahura Mazda, after a judgment of the world and resurrecting the dead.
The doctrine of the Zoroastrians is not in harmony with science. God's Divine Laws of nature are immutable. Therefore, it is preposterous to believe that the earth stopped in its track to end the day at noon and put time at a standstill. Art and mythology were the norms of Indian cultures during this age of decadence. The sad reality is that it was the origin of the Zoroastrian religion where all the other Western doctrines drew on its concept.
Let's be reasonable when it comes to the most abstruse science of God (wisdom), the ignorant and the wise can never achieve the same rewards.
Is it an injustice that bears the consequences of false religion when Persia was invaded and Zoroastrians were butchered, forcefully converted and driven out of their country by Muslims?
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To Purus Homi Havewala - November 10, 1996
Vj ~ I am an Aryan, the true follower of the pure monotheistic religion of the Vedas. India is the cradle of all civilization and previously the land of the Aryas. All knowledge of the world have their origin from Aryavarta (India).
Purus: I accept that.
Vj ~ Acceptance of the Vedic religion means you have to let go of Zoroastrianism which is false. Are you willing to do so
Vj ~ Your religion has a lot of contradictions like the others.Vj ~One can only know the truth by being inquisitive and pointing out irrationalities. False religions can never lead to God but a lot of pain and misery, which is so evident worldwide. Only through the one true religion, one can avoid all such sufferings.
Purus: As a true Aryan, your DHARMA is not to criticize other religions, but to accept that all religions ultimately lead to a God.
Vj ~ Many questions arise of out of Zoroastrianism. For instance heaven on earth for all eternity is not possible for whatever is finite (have a beginning or created) cannot be eternal (be none ending). It is a law.Vj ~ It teaches me that your religion is false and the Vedic religion is right for everyone, everywhere and in all ages.
Purus: This what we believe in. it may not be right for you. You should believe in what the Vedas, and the Vedanta teaches you.
Vj ~ Wisdom is humility, my friend, and truth leads to perpetual happiness. When one is offended by criticism, know that one is defending untruth. You are free to believe in whatever you wish but it does not mean it is the universal truth other wise there would not have been so many wars fought over religion. Vj ~ Please do criticize it. Obviously respect and acceptance, in a literal sense, means you have decided to follow the Vedic religion. If not it is only religious tolerance, which is materially promoted, even though unsuccessfully, for the benefit of a peaceful co-existence and not for the spiritual uplift of the soul.
I commend you for exposing your faith to the world but in all fairness, you should know that is will be opened to scrutinizing from rational thoughts. My criticisms are constructive and it does lead to the true path of true Dharma. Likewise I have exposed my faith for the world to either accept or condemn. Either way I will always be happy. Please check out my site for more on my faith.
Purus: I will. But as per my DHARMA, I will not criticize your religion, but respect it.
To Porus Homi Havewala - November 16, 1996Vj ~If anything is possible with God � �Can He kill Himself?� or �Can He make other gods like himself, become ignorant, commit sins such as theft, adultery, etc.?� Or can he be unhappy? Your answer can only be, �no� as these things are opposed to the nature and attributes of God. The law of nature dictates that all things created must come to an end. The word �eternal� means that which has neither beginning nor ending. The creation has a beginning, and it must end. If the soul was created it has to die also. Whatever is not eternal must perish.
Vj ~ Many questions arise out of it. For instance heaven on earth for all eternity is not possible for whatever is finite cannot be eternal.
Purus: To this I reply: Anything is possible for God. He can make the finite infinite, indeed that is what we say He will do.
Purus: In the Vedic religion, the universe-shaking power of God is accepted. Why then do you say something is �not possible� for God? Indeed, nothing is not possible.Vj ~ If you mean His Creative Power, yes, but He will neither contradict His Divine laws of Nature nor breach His Nature, Attributes and Characteristics of an All-Perfect, All-wise and Omniscient power. Everything that is rational is possible for Him because He is Omnipotent. A man cannot be called wise for breaching the laws of our land, the same with God.
Vj ~ Wisdom is humility, my friend, and truth leads to perpetual happiness. When one is offended by criticism, know that one is defending untruth. Vj ~ To anyone outside the Vedic Dharma, even a rogue with a verisimilitude of followers can be called a saint. These hypocrites know nothing of true religion how could they have criticized any other religion? Many of the true saints of yore had their true teachings misinterpreted by ignorant followers, for example Buddha. It was the cause of the imminent death of Buddhism in India. Do you believe Sai Baba to be God as he constantly proclaims himself to be?
Purus: You must have learnt this in the West. In India, no true man of God, not true saint like Kabir, Tukaram, Tulsidas, Mirabai, , Ramakrishna, Sai Baba, etc. has ever criticized another religion.
Purus: Why is criticism done? To try to convert others. This then leads to religious tension and religious wars. So, criticism of other religions is not the right path. My friend. It has never been taught by India.Vj ~ Constructive criticism is openness, if you have nothing to hide there is nothing to fear. As long as all religions keep a tight lid on their belief, there is bound to be war because it is the extremists who know and act on the intolerant teachings hidden in them. When men, women and children of your faith were persecuted and driven out of Persia (Iran), was it criticism that did it? No my friend, it was an intolerant Islamic dogma based on slaying the infidels (non-Muslims) who knew nothing of the Qur�an. Can such intolerant teachings come from a Just, Merciful and Compassionate God? There is only one true path to God and I am I am only propagating it in the most rational way and with all humility and the desire for saving lost souls as yours. You cannot close your eyes to the tyranny and barbarism of the past or the present, the dark side of religion, especially Islam and Christianity. God was there too.
Vj ~ You are free to believe in whatever you choose to believe in, but it does not mean it is the universal truth otherwise there would not have so many wars fought in the name of religion.Vj ~ Truth is true dharma the protector from pain and misery of all kinds. Zoroastrians were persecuted and driven out of their country, which means their �truth� didn�t protect them. Only those blinded by ignorance would seek to hold on to such a faith for the purpose of salvation.
Purus: Who said it is the universal truth? It is truth � for us.
Purus: Thus were our souls born in this Aryan religion of the Zoroastrianism.Vj ~ �Arya� is a Sanskrit word which means �noble� and one becomes noble by the practice of true knowledge (the Vedas). Thus an Aryan is one follows in the teachings of the Vedic religion. Zoroastrianism is opposed to the Vedas and therefore, is not a religion of the Aryas(noble), but Anaryas (the wicked).
Purus: If God had intended you to believe in this, He would have made you born in our religion, but He did not. He made you born in Hinduism, because your soul was suited to the teachings of Hinduism.Vj ~ If you had read my website as I have read yours, you would have noticed my religion to be Vedic and not Hinduism which I have also criticized. You must be acquainted with the Persian language and should know that Hindu is a Persian word and does not have a pleasant meaning. However, whatever conditions we are born in, are due to the law of karma (reincarnation), our past actions sinful and virtuous. Those with high inclinations for truth, like myself even though I was an atheist for a very long time, will find the truth, whereas, those of lower actions, like yourself, can be nurtured to reason or remain static compulsion being so. Activity (the practice of true knowledge) is superior to destiny (past). He has indeed given the soul free-will to either rise to superior conditions or be sunk in further miseries.
Purus: He made the Christian to be born a Christian, the Jew a Jew, and the Muslim a Muslim. Vj ~The Jewish faith views non-Jews to be Satanic, the Muslim faith view us as infidels and only Christians are saved through Jesus. All of us, including you, are doomed to hell by their scriptures. Can an All-wise and All-perfect God express these intolerant paths as a way to Him?
Purus: Each of these persons can find Him, through the path, which is prescribed to his own religion.Vj ~ If this is the case, how are those born as atheists ever get to go anywhere or is it one of His prescriptions too? The mere fact that some are born in misery and some in luxury or happiness, shows that your God is unjust. Similarly, if all religions are prescribed paths to Him, He is also unjust, because I do not have to only seek knowledge, but must abstain from alcohol, meat, adultery, etc., while those of other religions need no knowledge, can eat anything, commit adultery and polygamy and ask for forgiveness.
Hello Porus - November 17th, 1996Vj ~True, the early Aryans did not convert anyone. There was no one to convert. There was only the one true religion of the Vedas. Conversion is a term used where irrational dogmas are preached where any idiot can also go to heaven. The rationality of the Vedic religion, is not about conversion, but enlightenment by conforming one�s nature and characteristic to that of the Nature and Characteristics of God. In other words, we expose what is false, by ingraining the correct reasoning habits, so that by intellectual discrimination between right and wrong, mankind can reject what is false and accept what is truth.
Vj ~ I commend you for exposing your faith to the world but in all fairness, you should know that while it could be an attraction for some, it is also exposed to criticism by others.
Purus: We do not attract anyone. We do not convert anyone, Neither did the Vedic Aryans. Conversions is recent phenomenon, it started with Ashoka who sent monks out to China to teach Buddhism.
Purus: Then St. Paul started converting non-Jews to Christianity.Vj ~ It is obvious that in the circle of Christendom, most of those before Christianity and even Christ were Jews. How could something (Judaism), originally of God, become unfit for those converting to Christianity while it still stands firm for those who remain? For any one with an ounce of intelligence it doesn�t really make any sense and yet you try to make sense out of it. How is it possible unless you are completely ignorant? Worst of it all, they speak of different heavens and if heaven is supposed to be where your God is, then you can count on the same divisions and wars that exist here on earth.
Vj ~ My criticisms are constructive and it is the path that truly encompasses true Dharma.Vj ~ In your case, Zoroastrianism is a decrease of dharma which eventually led to persecution at the hands of Muslims. Dharma can only increase faith, when that faith is in harmony with reasoning and science and in conformity with natural laws. Your faith speak of an eternal heaven on earth, but whatever is finite must come to an end. It is a law, which proves your faith to be false.
Purus: My friend, Dharma does not seek to decrease faith, but to increase it.
Purus: Thus, to you, I will not speak of any other religion, but of Hinduism, and will not criticize it but respect it as a way to God.Vj ~ I do respect all men by creed class and color, and for me to do otherwise will show utter contempt for God�s Divine justice. I am not Hindu so when you speak of Hinduism you are speaking on behalf of a religion that is also as false as yours. Though it is necessary for you to show respect because you don�t know what is falsehood from truth, it does not help in the elevation of your soul to a higher birth.
Purus: You should do likewise, to my religion, and to all the other great paths to God out there on the face of the Earth.Vj ~ Since Hinduism is the oldest of all dogmas, why would you respect it, when it was not good enough for you and your forefathers? The Vedic religion is the first, true and the oldest of all religions. It demands respect only from the wise because its truth is for all and in all ages. It was good enough for those in the beginning as it is for me now. This is what must be respected because God is omniscient and omnipotent and does not need to construct other paths to Him. If there are other �paths� it is because fools are by nature, lackadaisical, wicked and unscrupulous so they invent them for the personal benefit of acquiring through Godhead, their own brand of spirituality by redemption of sins and not that of the one true God of the universe.
Purus: As Krishna says in the Bhagwad Gita, all religions are as so many streams leading to the great ocean, God. Each is right in its own way.Vj ~ The teachings of the Gita have been misinterpreted also to meet the ignorance of those (Hindus) blind by centuries of mental thralldom. The Gita also says, �the company of the wise are few in the age Kaliyug� so where are the masses of wise men if all religions are �streams leading to the great ocean, God�?
Purus: Ramakrishna Paramhamsa was a great saint of India, the Guru of Swami Vevekananda who visited the West in the 1890�s and was the first to explain the Vedanta to the West.Vj ~ Why was the explanation of the �Vedanta� necessary when it wouldn�t matter to the West who already had their own religion? Weren�t the West satisfied with what they had or weren�t there any Zoroastrian around to tell him (Vevekananda) that all religions are �streams to one great ocean, God or was he a complete idiot?
Purus: It is a well known fact in India, that Ramakrishna Paramhamsa realized God, in the form of the divine Mother, first in his religion.Vj ~ That means he would have had to advocate non-violence and protection of the cow.
Purus: After he thus achieved realization in his religion, he achieved sainthood, and it was then that he started practicing all religions one by one, for fixed time periods alone, to see if they too led to God, and they did.Vj ~ First of all, when a wise man has achieved self-realization he is free and filled with contentment. He has achieved the blissful state, which ends all desires. But when Paramhamsa continued his search, in spite of the blissful state achieved, it showed that he was a hypocrite born to con the ignorant. It is only fools, like you, who would believe in such nonsense. Too bad no one practiced it before him, it would have prevented Zoroastrians in Persia from persecution by embracing Islam.
Purus: When he was a Christian � and he followed only the practices of the Christians � he saw Christ walking towards him and immersing himself in him.Vj ~ And not only that, if you weren�t a fool you would have known that he as a Christian would have had to resort to violence by killing the cow and eating the carcass, which he avoided and protected as a Hindu. But Christ says,
"I AM the Way, the Truth and the Life, NO ONE comes to the FATHER except through ME" John 14:6". This clearly shows that either Christ or Ramakrishna was a liar.
Purus: When he was a Muslim � and he followed all the strict rules of the Muslim religion accordingly � he said he even �abhorred idols� at that time, and he realized Allah in the Muslim religion.Vj ~ You head must be clogged up with something else than brain. That means from the practice of celibacy and non-violence, he would have to embrace polygamy (including a child and his daughter �in-law) and adultery (concubines), murder (putting infidels [unbelievers] to the sword), stealing (one fifth of loot) as these were the strict rules of Muhammad. It would have made a lot of sense to stick with the first phase (Hinduism), it would have saved him from the shame of abhorring the very idols that grant him realization of God.
Purus: Why did the great saint did this?Vj ~ Very simple, he was a shameless hypocrite who had the support of millions of idiots, like yourself, that made him a saint. Look at this way, when you are of a different religion and you can adore him as a saint, what wouldn�t the Hindus themselves not worship him as one?
Purus: To prove once and for all to all human beings that all great religions led to God, and if a man or woman followed his/her own religion, strictly, he was sure to realize God in that religion.Vj ~ And it had to take a Hindu, and not a Zoroastrian or any one of another religion, to prove to all human beings, of all other religions that it can be done. What then was the necessity for the religion of the Zoroastrian or the others if one could realized God by the oldest dogma?
Purus: The Great Saint proved all religions are valid, Vj ~ You haven�t said what makes it valid, except for the words of a hypocrite. If this is how you accepted your prophet as a messenger of God, then you are indeed an imbecile bound to many births of pain and misery. Swami Dayanand also said that all religions are false except one with sound proof, why not accept him as a saint and that he is right?
Purus: and it is pointless to change religions, because God had given us birth in a perfectly valid path. Vj ~ Then neither a beggar should strive to become well-to-do or rich nor should one born an atheist accept any religion, because God has already decided their �perfectly valid path�.
Purus: This was also the teaching of the Gita, that the great saint believed in.Vj ~ Perhaps he wanted idiots like you to believe in him and become a Hindu since he didn�t realize God by practicing Zoroastrianism.
Purus: This what Ramakrishna himself has said:-Vj ~ There is something call reasoning also, and it must go hand in hand with the intellect, without it you are nothing but a confused idiot. It seems to me, that you have no heroes or saints in Zoroastrianism otherwise you would not have wasted your praises on the hypocrites of other faiths.
Purus: �Every man should follow his own religion. A Christian should follow Christianity Vj ~ Do you realize that somebody failed to past on such an instruction to Jesus, for a Jew to follow his own religion, or did he disobeyed it? If disobedience, as it appears in Jesus� case, gave birth to these religions then one must wonder who is lying?
Purus: and a Muslim should follow Islam. Vj ~ Meaning, that Muslims can reach the same God by hating and murdering Zoroastrians and all the other non-Muslims.
"O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors:..." Sura 5:51.
Purus: For the Hindu, the ancient path, the path of the Rishis, is best.
"not to make friendship with Jews and Christians" (5:51)
fight them "until they pay the Jizya (a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (9:29).
"kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (2:191)
"murder them and treat them harshly" (9:123)
"fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (9:5).
Vj ~ First of all, the Rishis abhorred idol-worship which simply meant they weren�t Hindus and secondly if the path of the Rishis �is the best� why would you or a Hindu settle for any other?
Purus: A truly religious man should think that other religions are also so many paths leading to the truth.Vj ~ If you consider Muhammad, an epileptic, an illiterate, a polygamist (nine wives), an adulterer (concubines), a murderer and a pedophilic (sexually molesting a 9 year-old child) �a truly religious man� who has found truth, then you are one of the most incurable diseased-brains around. Even he, branded all other religions as those of infidels to proclaim Islam �true religion of God�.
Purus: One should always maintain an attitude of respect towards other religions. Dispute not.Vj ~ Only an idiot would respect a religion that persecuted his/her people. To dispute by rational dialogue is food for the soul and do otherwise leads to pain and misery.
Purus: As you rest firmly on your own faith and opinion, allow others equal liberty to stand by their own faith and opinion.Vj ~ My firmness of �faith and opinion� is in harmony with reason and science which promote universal harmony. It is �each their own� that has promoted discord and their dark history is enough proof of that.
Purus: If the other is indeed wrong (as per your thinking), then by mere disputation you will never succeed in convincing another of his error.Vj ~ How ironical, obviously you are including yourself as one among the �other�? However, it is the nature of wise men to disseminate true knowledge in spite of who are convinced of their �error�.
Purus: When the grace of God descends, every man will understand his own mistakes.Vj ~ Perhaps then it will be too late. It seems far more reasonable to know your mistakes now, to have them corrected, than to wait for the last moment. God has already sent us His revelation as Divine instructions for us to correct our mistakes. It is fools who would reject it to await His descending �Grace� which is punishment for being ignorant of His instructions as well as rewards for adherence to them.
"Just as color cannot be perceived by ears, nor sound by eyes; in like manner, the Eternal Supreme Spirit is not perceptible to the senses. He can only be seen by a pure soul through the purity of heart, acquisition of knowledge and the practice of yoga. Just as one cannot reap the advantages of knowledge without acquiring it, likewise the Supreme Spirit cannot be seen without the practice of yoga and gaining the highest knowledge." The Light of Truth
|"The time has come for honest men to denounce false teachers and attack false gods.� Luther Burbank
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