Discourses on the Vedic Religion.
Part V

Responses:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24

Dialogue 1
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Namaste Asheganji - Sunday 12-Dec-1999
they put me on the aryan youth league league committee for south africa... hopefully this new influential position will help be to spread our influence and reform some of the flaws within the present arya pratinidhi sabha s.a...any ideas for a well-meaning arya?
  • Vj ~ Yes Asheganji let's teach our young people how to put a functional intellect to work - ingraining the proper reason habits beginning with the immutable laws of nature and the Light of Truth. Namaste

    Namaste Asheganji - Thursday 16-Dec-1999
    vj its easier said... proper reasoning habits take years of study and application to ingrain... any suggested activities to hasten the process?

  • Vj ~ There is only one way my friend - regular or daily communion and contemplation by thefour subsidiary means It may seem a long time but the personal joy that arises out of it do compensate for the time. If there is any regret, it would be that I didn't start earlier. Namaste.

    Namaste Asheganji -Tuesday 16-Nov-1999
    but don't you think its at least good that the arya samajis themselves do not worship the idols even if at this time propagation of the doctrine is at a low...and the shuddhi movement allows for dalits and other hindus who would otherwise be turned into christians to stay within the dharma... is there not some good in that?

    Vj ~ Andhantamahah pravishinti ye sam vidyaam upaasate tato bhooya eva te tamo ya u sam vidyaayaa rataah.

    ”Rituals without knowledge is a sin but knowledge without action is even a greater sin". Eshopanishad.

    We must be careful of how we thread this path even though it may appear that we are saving others we could be damning our souls instead, while doing it. Namaste

    Dialogue 2
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    Namaste Ashegan - Sunday 21-Nov-1999
    vj i'm 17 today!! i pray the almighty blesses me with the resilience and fortitude in the arya dharma that you've shown...
  • Vj ~ Congratulations my putra and may God inspire you to greater wisdom. At 17, I was an atheist and had lost all sense of direction. It was indeed a life of trials and mistrials. You, on the other hand, have a chance of being an epitome of that young master, Pandit Gurudutt Vidyarthi earning a birth in Satya Yuga.
    "Om anu brathaah pitu putro matraa bhautu samanah
    jaaya pate madhumatim vaacham vadhatu shaantih vaam."
    May the Omnipotent Omniscient and All-Pervading Brahma protect you. Whenever you have the time drop Brahmachari a few lines. Namaste

    Namaste Asheganji -Thursday 25-Nov-1999
    my thanks vj.. hope our friendship will continue healthily into the future...

  • Vj ~ You are in my company and we are both heading in the same direction I see no reason why it cannot always be healthy. Namaste

    Namaste Asheganji - Saturday 27-Nov-1999
    vj i found this part of a post in a certain forum where a hare krishna was trying to show his movement has vedic support ie. supports krshna-worship... is thia 'krshna upanishad' he claims is from the rg veda real at all? or did the hare krshnas make it up? and is the hare krshna mantra really from yajurved? i thoroughly doubt such an anarya cult could possibly be based in the shruti...

  • Vj ~ Your doubts are correct! Krishna came only 6 000 years ago how could it be possible that his name has found “its way in the Vedas which came in the very beginning and is free of any historical references. The ignorant do not know any better so these shameless hypocrites seek to validate their faith with the Vedas hoping it will gain them mukti. They live for no other reason. Namaste

    Namaste Asheganji - Saturday 4-Dec-1999
    this is one of vishal's points proving the antiquity of hindu 'avataravaad'... is this true vj?

  • Vj ~ It is true that Vishal is a shameless Hindu.

    "1. The association of Sri Krishna with Sri Vishnu is not new and is attested in the Vedic literature as well -- this will be a shock to Ashegan :-) For instance Baudhayana Dharmasutra of the Taittiriya Yajurveda Sakha adjoins an offering to Narayana Madhava Kesava. These are all epithets of Sri Vishnu and Sri Krishna in Puranas Itihasas and so on."

  • Vj ~ And secondly, if a Hindu can ever give the correct interpretation of the Vedas, the Smritis, the shastras. etc. he can never be called such. My advise, wait until you can interpret the Vedas and then most likely you won't even have to question it. Namaste

    Dialogue 3
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    Hello narashia - Sunday 28-Nov-1999
    I am very happy to found this board cause i`m interested to know more about the vedic religion and the only resources i found were the iskcon writings and some secondary literature
  • Vj ~ you are truly interested in the Vedic religion I would advise you to go to my home page and start there.

    I am 33 and in thinking and living i am following no special religion but i have the believe that most argues and wars between humans come from an intolerance-problem -

  • Vj ~ It only shows that religious tolerance can never be the answer for universal peace and harmony. This is why we must strive for the truth of the one true religion of the Vedas

    i mean the unability to let the other believe what is best for him - sure if his believe is to kill me then we have to be intollerant agains his intollerance - now i found your comment down there where you give an answer about iskcon - i dont know if they are right or wrong (what makes a believe right or wrong?)

  • Vj ~ A faith that is in harmony with reasoning and science and in conformity with natural laws is the only true faith and only the Vedic religion fit those criteria. This is how a religion must determine itself to be the true, in the absence of the Vedas.

    but i like to know more about that you were saying - why is it that you say that all what they make is of no other reason only to rehabilitate prabhuphadas movement? do you think that they are wrong ? why should an old lineage of bhaktas lie about that what they are preaching ? why is it that iskcon is not accepted from the traditional schools in india and around the world ? what is the problem with his writings?

  • Vj ~ Any movement that is anti-vedic is false. Prabhupada was well versed in Sanskrit learning, but like many Hindus have failed to realize that the Vedas do not sanction idol-worship or anthropomorphic gods.

    is it possible for a westerner to get an idea and understanding of the vedas without some master (who of cause has his own way of offering the wisdom)

  • Vj ~ Why worry about westerners when Hindus themselves have ignored and rejected the true teachings of the Vedas? And if you are looking for master look for one whose first interest was his people and then country at heart, before the rest of world.

    Dialogue 4
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    Namaste Rameshji - Tuesday 7-Dec-1999
    How are you? You are doing a great job maintaining the web site.
  • Vj ~ Thank you my brother and you are also doing a splendid job of propagating the message of Maha Rishi Swami Dayaand Saraswati. Continue the good work on the Hindu message-boards, that is, until they ban you.

    You have also criticized Arya Samaj. I agree with your view (to some extent

  • Vj ~ I really meant no harm just a wake-up call for those who have fallen asleep.

    The basic principles of Arya Samaj have not changed.

  • Vj ~ And most important of all neither is the true wisdom of the Vedas.

    Some people are joining Arya Samaj to grab its properties. They have nothing to do with the principles of Arya Samaj. And these people are getting a bad name to Arya Samaj.

  • Vj ~ If it were only "some" it would not have been a major problem but where I dwell it is rampant. I really don't see the necessity for twenty or more Arya Samaj organizations all, independent of each other, in one city or town as a viable means of true cooperation to disseminate the Vedic knowledge. It simply means the leaders of these groups have their own agenda and not the mission of the Swami.

    I don’t agree that Arya Samaj is dead.

  • Vj ~ Like the mission of Shankarcharya 2300 years ago it will also disappear the trend is leading that way. Arya Samajees have become so weak, that they now preach and practice religious tolerance instead of propagating the truth boldly and openly.

    I am a living example that proves there is still some life in the Organization.

  • Vj ~ So am I and my brothers, but no Arya Samaj organization, that we know of, wants anything to with us?

    I was a Hindu (and later on Nastik). Swami Dayanand Saraswati has changed my life. His teachings have sparked the inner flame and Arya Samaj is like a fuel for that flame.

  • Vj ~ May God continue to inspire you my friend and may your good work towards this mission be fruitful. Namaste and thanks for dropping by.

    Dialogue 5
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    Namaste Rameshji - Wednesday 8-Dec-1999
    Your web site is a great inspiration for me. I always read the posts.
  • Vj ~ I am happy for you my friend because it is the only way (by reasoning with the correct knowledge) the inner light of the true Vedic wisdom can penetrate the intellect.

    But there are many things I really don’t know. I am searching for answers.

  • Vj ~ You have nothing to worry about my friend; you have already accomplished the most important task of overcoming credulity.

    I hope you would help me in my journey to seek the truth. There are many things that are beyond my reason. I am striving to go higher.

  • Vj ~ It wouldn't matter how much one reads or write but how much is put into correct practice and this process is called Yoga. You must find time to practice together with meditational excercises since it is only through communion one can remove doubts to ascertain truth. The Light of Truth by Swami Dayanand was my only source of this knowledge when I started the practice.

    What can we do to save the Arya Samaj?

  • Vj ~ The motto is to save yourself first and then Swami Dayanand’s message will be automatically saved - purity and conviction of one's own soul. “What is good for you is good for the world and what is painful to you is painful to others.” Namaste

    Namaste Asheganji - Saturday 18-Dec-1999
    vj well done and thanks for finally getting chap 11 of satyarth prakash online... there are a few hindu i'd like to refer to it...

  • Vj ~ Actually, I am doing it mostly for the Arya Samajists who claim to be ardent followers of Swami Dayanand but rarely read his books. I feel this way since not one Arya Samaj Organization online hasn't seen it fit, so far, to link my site to theirs, when all I am doing is the work of Swami Dayanand. Namaste

    Dialogue 6
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    Namaste - Wednesday 22-Dec-1999
    vj a member of the hindunet forum made this argument in favor of forgiveness of sin when action is performed without attachment... i maintained that sin can in no case be excused.. but i found that maybe i might be wrong... what do you think? what is the arya philosophy in this regard?
  • Vj ~ There is no doubt in what the Vedic philosophy teaches of the attributes of the Omnipotent and Omniscient God. He is just and therefore a man/woman must reap what he/she has sown. Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breeching it. The same applies here.

    "just because God is loving and compassionate to the infinite does not take away from his justice quality.

  • Vj ~ God is Merciful and Compassionate because he is Just in dispensing justice fairly in that one reaps only what one has sown, no more and no less. Why strive to know of God’s love for us, when we don’t know how to love ourselves?

    But once a jiva performs prajapati or utter self-surrender then the karma done by the jiva is no longer clinging to the jiva because he has surrendered his very ahamkara pride doership fruit and so on.

  • Vj ~ True knowledge acquired by practice and not devotion or self-surrender (bodily functions) is the true path to salvation.
    Patanjali says "Heyam dukham anaagatam."
    "The past cannot be changed but the present activity (practice of Dharma) can avoid future miseries to come."
    It does not mean that miseries of past sins are forgiven but that you would be stronger in Dharma (by wisdom) to even enjoy or better yet cancel the pain when it comes which means that it is only in ignorance one is subjected to pain and misery.

    If you sincerely take one step towards God he will take a million steps back to you just to show you that his love for you is infinite.

  • Vj ~ Righteousness (Yoga) always bare fruits of perpetual happiness. God has already given us His instructions (the Vedas) and is in no need to take any step towards us. It is an individual action through the practice of Yoga that must be consistent to the end (salvation).

    He is waiting for a jiva to surrender themselves to him so that he can come and protect them.

  • Vj ~ God is All-bliss and therefore has no desire which means He is not waiting for anyone.

    you can only reach God through God not some other path.

  • Vj ~ There is only one true path to God and it is not God but the practice of Yoga to attain the highest of knowledge.

    God is love and His love pervades us and we can experience it if we simply let it."

  • Vj ~ The process is not a simple one by just letting God into your life. It first requires a functional intellect to begin the process of reasoning then the correct knowledge to develop a discriminating intellect (knowing right from wrong). It is only at this stage that one can begin the journey to a realized state of truly knowing God. Simplicity or humility comes only with this wisdom.

    God is love and His love pervades us and we can experience it if we simply let it."

  • Vj ~ God is love but only through wisdom one can experience His infinite love. Namaste.

    Dialogue 7
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    Namaste Asheganji - Wednesday 22-Dec-1999
    vj the hindus say that when they completely give up the action and the fruit of the action to their god the effects are automatically nullified... they say god is forgiving of the sins of those who submit to his will in complete devotion and humility offering all to him...can this be true??
  • Vj ~ Even Muslims passionately believe in self-surrender to God. If this is true who needs the Vedas? Sins are not forgiven, if it were then there would be no incentive for man to strive for higher ethics and morals. Can a man commit such a heinous crime as murder and can be forgiven? These baseless instructions are the heart and soul of false religions, it leads man to greater sins - "come join my faith and your sins will be forgiven" - it makes so much sense why so few would accept the Vedic faith. Many are aware of their sins and their weaknesses, and would only accept a religion where they can be forgiven, a necessity for salvation. If sins are forgiven then who would be that stupid not to ask for it instead of taking the chance of being reincarnated into a rat. In this way it seems only those of the Vedic faith will be reincarnated into vegetation, animals and beings of low human conditions since all others (faiths) would have their sins forgiven. Namaste.

    Namaste Hindu - Friday 7-Jan-2000
    Hatha Yoga refers to physical exercises or postures. It is a yogic discipline by which the unitive (samaadhi) state is attained by uniting the praana and apaana (ingoing and outgoing breath). Various bodily and mental exercises are practiced for the purpose of purifying the 72 000 naadis (nerve vessel duct for vital air) and to bring about the even flow of paana. When the flow of praana is even the mind becomes still. One then experiences equality consciousness and enters into the state of samaadhi

  • Vj ~ The state of Samaadhi is attained when the faculty experiences uninterrupted bliss which can never be realized by the practice of hatha alone. Hatha deals with the physical only while gyaan yoga deals with the intellect both must be practiced simultaneously for the attainment of Samadhi. Therefore, it is misleading to preach the attainment of the realized state (Samadhi) by the practice of hatha alone. Namaste.

    Dialogue 8
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    Namaste Zoe - Monday 3-Jan-2000
    I wasn't quite sure where to post such a subject but I figured this would be better than the other two boards. Are you being kind to those that cannot see?
  • Vj ~ Any topic is most welcome anywhere on my boards because true knowledge is for all even the infirmed.

    I have begun down the Hatha Yogic path and have practiced Shankprakshalana with wonderful effects and had been told about the benefits of the external use of urine due to it's antibiotic properties as well as the many minerals vitamins and enzymes. Which got me to thinking why not just drink the stuff?

  • Vj ~ I am happy for you my friend but had your practice consists of both Gyaan and Hathya together you would have been best able to understand what is consists of waste matter and more so where it truly belongs.

    I was not too surprised when I found that there were Sanskrit texts on the very act of drinking ones urine not to mention the widespread usage of such all over the ancient and not so ancient world. This led me to only one conclusion being that I am a US resident.

  • Vj ~ What wisdom is there in prolonging life if one has to stoop to such a degradable state? The wise obviously by true wisdom are free of diseases and are ever ready to abandon the physical body at any given time. This leaves the ignorant who are attached to the physical life (fear of death) and would do whatever it takes to stay alive. It is most certain then that there is a conflict between who knows the Vedas and have no use for it and those who are ignorant of the Vedas and yet proclaim urine to be medically useful.

    With the coming of pharmaceutical companies this knowledge was suppressed and demonized (guess I should have posted in the Dogma section) in order that people would buy drugs instead of using God's gift to us.

  • Vj ~ God's gift to us is prevention by the practice of Yoga and not cure. Since it would make no sense to live another day if we have to live in sin (lack of true knowledge) it could never be the work of God to prolong life by such ignorance.

    I was just curious on your knowledge and opinions on the subject as I'm sure you have some.

  • Vj ~ I am a vegetarian and by now well immersed in the purity of God's Divine wisdom in many ways, and should the need of a blood transfusion be necessary the conviction to die is most likely in the absence of pure blood, much less urine. Namaste

    Dialogue 9
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    Namaste Zoe - Wednesday 5-Jan-2000
    As prevention and assistance in reconnecting with God was what I was referring to.
  • Vj ~ There can be no reconnection with God only connection. You are either connected with Him or disconnected from Him. In other words when there is truly a connection there can never be any disconnection. God is All-pure and one is connected by purity through the practice of Yoga. How could it ever make any sense to use any impurities (outwardly or inwardly) to make a connection?

    So you think it's just an offshoot of original knowledge? Humans in losing what was originally taught to them reaching for some new thing? I think you may be right but I still have some research of my own to do.

  • Vj ~ Actually research is the best path for a rational individual to ascertain what is truth. This is why I recommend the The Light of Truth as the best source of developing a discriminating intellect (knowing right from wrong).

    I have learned that there are names to many of the stretching moves that I do. It seems that these things I thought were just spontaneously made up by me as a child actually have been done for thousands of years or more.

  • Vj ~ When you would have experienced the physical and mental benefit of the "stretching moves" then know that you are well on your way.

    Could you refer me to what Gyaan is. I have searched and have found nothing specific. Thank you for your patience. :-)

  • Vj ~ Gyaan means acquiring by the practice of the correct knowledge. After a little study of the Light of Truth one must assume the practice of meditational excercises with contemplation or communion while performing hathya in complete silence. This kind of practice, if perform daily or regular can develop both the intellect and the body. Namaste

    Dialogue 10
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    Namaste Bahenji Vinita - Wednesday 26-Jan-2000
    Recently I got into a debate on the origins of human language. Needless to say I was greeted with the same disbelief and labels of fanaticism that were perhaps thrown at Bhai Ashegan.
  • Vj ~ It is even worst when you have to argue the origin of language when it is from some monkey in the past.

    If people doubt the existence and glory of the Aryans and persist in trying to further the proto-european myth point them to the Sanskrit verses in the Veda that describe how God created the world (R.g. X 190 1-3) and ask them to read it and explain what it means.

  • Vj ~ You can take a horse to water but you can't make her drink unless she is thirsty. If the soul has no inclination of seeking truth it will never find it Vinita. As the Swami said "compulsion being so." In the above link "origin of language" these self-acclaimed 'scientists' come in defense of evolution without any knowledge of the Vedic faith that contradicts it. How is it possible? Better yet they don't have to go to a library or India all they have to do is click their mouse buttons. It is the ego that destroys the soul.

    If through our study we can firstly prove that all languages are interlinked and has one mother language we will be able to change the minds of the incredulous.

  • Vj ~ It will never be enough my sister. First there is no cure for a static intellect they are the worst kinds. Secondly, a functional intellect is an atheist how many do you know that are willing to reject the God they now know to become one? And thirdly, the next best thing to do is getting the functional intellect (an atheist) to reason with the correct knowledge. This is by far the most excellent position to be in propagating true knowledge. Unless man can reason to begin with, there is really no hope.

    Once convinced of this basic truth they may find it easier to believe the more subtle truths of Veda i.e that all the roots of modern science known to man today are in them.

  • Vj ~ Even Einstein recognized India as the source of science and even worked with Indian physicists, like Bose, etc. but perhaps was never convinced of the Vedic religion at least outwardly he didn't speak of it. Although a few did in the past, I doubt whether others in this modern age would follow suit. It is best to convince people especially western intellectuals of the Vedic religion stressing the advantage of the immutable laws of nature. It is the only religion that conforms to these laws. Namaste Vijai.

    Dialogue 11
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    Hello Robyn - Tuesday 1-Feb-2000
    I am shocked and appalled by the lack of intelligence on this message board.
  • Vj ~ Well look on the bright side if we do not tolerate even fools who else will be better able to educate them.

    If I am not mistaken this is supposed to be a message board for theological discussions.

  • Vj ~ It still is, and will always be because theology is for all. As a matter of fact, it is fools who need it most.

    Instead we have a bunch of people who seem to bear a striking resemblance to the scribes and pharisees that Jesus spoke of: "Oh woe to ye scribes and pharisee--you hypocrites and fools!

  • Vj ~ But little do you know, that Christ weren't far removed from those whom he condemned as "hypocrites and fools". His message however sound or unsound as it may be has led to the dark ages (barbarism and tyranny) of the Christian church. If such a theology has now made Christians morally, ethically and scientifically civilized one must wonder why it didn't do so in its inception.

    (Forgive me if I wrote this incorrectly but I do not have a Bible in front of me and I am writing this completely from memory.)

  • Vj ~ The vulgarities and obscenities of the Bible are appalling to good reasoning and if you must condemn, there is where you must begin and not what is going on here.

    I understand the freedom of speech but I think there should be a statute of limitations where this message board is concerned.

  • Vj ~ This is not Christianity where critical thinking is not encouraged. There is much to learn here of all religions, that is. if you can cross the hurdles of a few 'offensive' remarks.

    Dialogue 12
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    Hello Hindu - Tuesday 1-Feb-2000
    Swami Dayananda one of the greatest sage scholar and orator India has produced....
  • Vj ~ Then you will have to admit that it was through Hinduism's ignorance that 17 attempted assassinations were made on his life.

    However you should note that the extremism of Vijai Singh and Co. isn't even accepted by mainstream Arya Samaj as acknowledged by Vijai Singh in this very forum.

  • Vj ~ Very true, because they have strayed from the true message critical thinking and fast becoming as static as those of Hindus. If you really think I am extreme then you better read Dayanand's Light of Truth and tell me what you think of him.

    However in Gita Krishna himself admits that he had revealed the same truths earlier.

  • Vj ~ At the time of Krishna 6 000 years ago there was only the Vedic religion and there is no where in the Gita where there is a mention of the word "hindu" or the religion of Hinduism. Krishna was a Yogishvara and not God and the Gita was not a revelation since it is based solely on the knowledge of the already revealed Vedas. God is Omniscient and never in need to reveal the same thing twice much less thrice or hundred times as Hindu the Puranas seem to indicate.

    Dialogue 13
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    Hello Hindu - Thursday 3-Feb-2000
    Then you will have to admit that is was through Hinduism's ignorance that 17 attempted assassinations were made on his life.
    Hindu: Indeed those who sought to harm the Swami in particular physically must have been most ignorant of Hinduism itself.
  • Vj ~ How could they be anymore sensible when Hinduism could not teach them any better? Had not such ignorance existed in such a religion, India would not have been invaded and be subjugated for centuries and there would have been no need for a reformer (the Swami) in the first place?

    We have discussed this point before and there is no need to discuss this point any further.

  • Vj ~ How would you know when you are still an Hindu? As long as you are stubborn enough to remain am ignorant Hindu, the point is relevant to discussion, over and over.

    Suffice to say that your understanding of the life and teachings of the Swami is totally different from rest of Arya Samaj and Hindus.

  • Vj ~ Really! His mission was solely to return the ignorant Hindu idol-worshippers, the cause of India’s demise, to the ancient religion of the Vedas and if there is a difference of understanding it is because you are massively ignorant of his teachings.

    Hindu: However you should note that the extremism of Vijai Singh and Co. isn't even accepted by mainstream Arya Samaj as acknowledged by Vijai Singh in this very forum.
    Very true
    Hindu: Why argue any further?

  • Vj ~ Simply because you are still an ignorant Hindu (static intellect) and the "mainstream Arya Samaj" seems to be heading that way also.

    Hindu: Your dynamism manifests itself best in abusing and insulting others.

  • Vj ~ Here is that great Swami's own words "Let him say what is good for another even though it may offend him." It means it is not wrong to expose your ignorance for a possible cure of others who are willing to seek the truth.

    It would be better if you focus on better and more effective ways of spreading Vedic teachings.

  • Vj ~ Well, the great Swami you spoke of must have had "more effective ways of spreading Vedic teachings" which cost him his life, I only wonder why you are still a Hindu?

    I understand that Swami Dayananda also went to extremes on many issues. However I and most others take that as his temporal response to the prevailing situation of his time.

  • Vj ~ Before and in his time it was Hinduism (idol-worship), according to him that has led India to her shameful fall from glory. I can't see how such shameless ignorance can be the path to her glory again.

    You take that extremism as the core of his teachings and as eternally applicable. That is where you fail to understand the Swami.

  • Vj ~ It is obvious that I am in a better position to understand the Swami since I am not into idol-worshipping which he so adamantly opposed and in the end cost him his life.

    Hindu: However in Gita Krishna himself admits that he had revealed the same truths earlier.
    Vj ~ At the time of Krishna 6 000 years ago there was only the Vedic religion and there is no where in the Gita where there is a mention of the word "hindu" or the religion of Hinduism. Krishna was a Yogishvara and not God and the Gita was not a revelation since it is based solely on the knowledge of the already revealed Vedas. God is omniscient and never in need to reveal the same thing twice muchless thrice or hundred times.
    How is that different from what I said that Krishna himself admits that Gita is not the first?

  • Vj ~ The Gita, is not the first what? Rishis, seers, yogis, etc. do not bring us revelation (new or old) but philosophical treatise based on what has already been revealed.

    or the primary exposition of the truth contained therein and that Gita can be traced to Vedas in its entirety?

  • Vj ~ “he had revealed the same truths earlier" - doesn't this mean it was revealed again? And use your head a little, Krishna could not have revealed it earlier either because he was not God to do so in the first place. Embodiment of the soul is called bondage, and God, who is All-bliss is always free of bondage and therefore can never be embodied.

    Dialogue 14
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    Hello Hindu - Saturday 5-Feb-2000
    How could they be anymore sensible when Hinduism could not teach them any better?
    Hindu: Nonsense.
  • Vj ~ Exactly what I meant, Hinduism is nonsense.

    Had not such ignorance existed in such a religion there would have been no need for a reformer (the Swami) in the first place.
    Hindu: There is never a time when things can't be improved further.

  • Vj ~ Then how do you explain the ignorant masses who are still Hindus? There were definite improvements after Indians were told (by the Swami) that they were once a glorious race, it revived the courage and boldness of a few to begin the battle to free their country of foreign subjugation.

    How would you know when you are still an ignorant Hindu?
    Hindu: How would you know anything as long as you continue to be an extremist fanatic intolerant and nonsensical idiot?

  • Vj ~ Very simple, the Swami was also "an extremist fanatic" and he knew that all who rejected the one true God of the Vedas for idols were ignorant. If I am an idiot, I am so after him, and I cannot be any prouder.

    Really! His mission was solely to return the Hindu idol-worshippers to the ancient religion of the Vedas.
    Hindu: He was under Semitic influence on this and deviated from Vedic teachings in not understanding the essence of understanding God through symbols. The Swami was great but not infallible.

  • Vj ~ How can this symbol of a penis and vagina free a Hindu of sensuality to understand God who is all-pure and the Rishis who stressed on celibacy as purity for emancipation?

    and if there is a difference of understanding it is because you are ignorant of his teachings.
    Hindu: Nonsense.

  • Vj ~ How could it be nonsense isn't this why there are so many other religions, which you have even contradicted at times? Every new religion born or invented is man's failure to recognize what is truth (Vedas) and Hinduism is no different. If a Hindu is right even though idol-worship opposes the Vedic truth then tell me, why are the others wrong?

    Hindu: You are crying like those in mental asylum to whom rest of the world appears insane.

  • Vj ~ And won't you know it, you are a despicable example of what the rest of the insane world is, what else could lead to such shameless actions for thousands of years to bring about the decadence of the one true religion of the Vedas?

    Here is that great Swami's own words "Let him say what is good for another even though it may offend him."
    Hindu: You use this to justify your insult and abuse to others without caring to think whether it brings about any good for another.

  • Vj ~ Believe me I didn’t care, what else could have prompted my web site and all these message-boards of rational discussions. I can't see how it is possible for you to help others when you are caged in dense ignorance. Remember, it is not God who must cure a fool, but the fool himself by his/her own effort.

    Hindu: You can't get across any message in present day world using offensive means.

  • Vj ~ And neither can this message get across to a fool who is not prepared to jump the hurdles and barriers of insults or abuses.

    Hindu: If the great Swami couldn't bring about any substantial change in the masses what chance you have of succeeding using similar (even worse) offensive attitude?

  • Vj ~ The Swami has accomplished his foremost mission and that is the emancipation of his own soul. My goal is the same, whether you choose to remain a fool or seek enlightenment, it is no way an impediment to my mission.

    Well. the great Swami you spoke of must have had "more effective ways of spreading Vedic teachings" I only wonder why you are still you are Hindu? Hindu: As I said before the Swami was not infallible. At times he placed his own conception of truth higher than Vedas

  • Vj ~ Then you must know all the Vedas or more than the Swami to contradict what he did. Do you need any more proof than this, that you are not only ignorant but also a demonized hypocrite? Instead of being offended shouldn't you at least try to thank me for pointing out your blatant stupidity?

    Hindu: he used extremist and intolerant approach of Semitic religion that he was himself critical of he sought to destroy what he planned to reform.

  • Vj ~ If only a fool knows what true wisdom is consisted of, you would never contradict the yogi's humility. His reformation (child marriage, women’s education, sati, caste system, idol-worship, false dogmas, etc.) is still alive. He sounded the first warning to the British to free India; he has brought the Sanskrit language to life again and because of it, modern science has become an invaluable asset to the whole world; and because of him not only India but the Western world now know the Vedas are the source of all ethics, morals and sciences. His reform is only dead for the dead intellect of Hindu who can't even begin to shower praise on the greatest soul that ever walk this planet in 5 000 years.

    Before and in his time it was Hinduism (idol-worship) according to him that has led India to her shameful fall from glory.
    Hindu: The Swami was wrong.

  • Vj ~ Either that or you are just a plain old dumb jackass, and the latter is a sound conclusion in comparison to a great Swami as you earlier declared. If he is wrong, then the Mahabharata that speaks of a glorious ancient Aryan civilization of 6000 years ago and before is also wrong. How could extensive invasion, subjugation, destitution, poverty, diseases (pain and misery) etc. be the fruits of righteousness if the Swami is wrong? It is obvious then, I am in a better position in understanding the Swami, since I do not require the aid of an idol to worship God..

    Hindu: It should also be obvious to you then that Muslims and Christians are better than you because they not only don't worship idols but actively destroy idol.

  • Vj ~ You are an idiot and the source of idol-worship which gave them something to destroy. Muslims (kaaba their prophet Holy Quran) and Christians themselves worship idols (cross, Jesus, Mary, Holy Bible and grail) and every place deemed holy are sacred to them even their mosques and churches. As you are offended when your idols are destroyed so are they through desecration of their sacred idols.

    Hindu: and idol worshippers (doing not only saying good even if it offends another)!

  • Vj ~ How can an idiot idol-worshipper do any good to others when destruction of an idol brings you unhappiness. It is best to do good, first by freeing yourself of most or all discomforts (unhappiness) of life before attempting to help others.

    Dialogue 15
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    Hello Hindu - Sunday 13-Feb-2000
    Vj ~ Then how do you explain the ignorant masses who are still Hindus? &
    Do you care to read before vomiting your favorite garbage?
  • Vj ~ Obviously reading Hinduism's garbage would be a good reason why one would vomit garbage.

    Why can't you use your tiny stuff called brain to understand that there will always be Hindus.

  • Vj ~ There will always be Muslims, Christians, Jews, etc. also so what does that prove? How do you explain there were no Hindu before 4 000 years ago, Jews before 2600 years ago and no Muslims before 1400 years ago? If they are wrong to continue so are you? Pain and misery alone tells me that there will always be false dogmas.

    an ignorant Hindu is not different from you.

  • Vj ~ How do you explain our difference of opinion then?

    It is better to seek God through idolatry than to distort and forget God through Monolatry.

  • Vj ~ It is the idols that distort the monotheistic concept, the root cause of all ignorance. If you had any brains at all, tell me in God’s name how can one seek God by a prostrating to an idol as this?

    Vj ~ How can this symbol of a penis and vagina free a Hindu of sensuality to understand God who is all-pure?
    Hindus see this as the symbol of Creation. The Swami and you are resorting to stupidity and extremism to ridicule symbolism and prove what is essentially nonsense.

  • Vj ~ God created the universe and sent us instructions (Vedas) must He also 'come' in person take a wife and together exposed themselves because an idiot like you wouldn't know what do with your linga (penis) if He didn't show you how, when and where to use it.

    Vj ~ Isn't this why there are so many other religions, which you even contradicted at times? Every new religion born or invented is man's failure to recognize what is truth (Vedas) and Hinduism is no different. If a Hindu is right even though Hinduism opposes Vedic truth then tell me why are the others wrong?.
    Nonsensical logic.

  • Vj ~ My guess is, it is the best answer a fool can come up with. Believe me, logic is indeed nonsense to an idiot.

    Forget about it.

  • Vj ~ Would it help if I send you picture of my penis, instead?

    I care what else could have prompted this site and all these messageboards of rational discussions.
    Where is the discussion?

  • Vj ~ You are using too much of perception, as you are trained well by your idols, and nothing of the intellect.

    It is simply your pontification abuse and insults of those who are misled in believing that this site is meant for discussion.

  • Vj ~ Is it not an abuse of the worst kind to expose your God's penis and the vagina of His wife also?

    I can't see how it is possible for you to help others when you are caged in dense ignorance.
    True. That is why you can't help anybody.

  • Vj ~ When you don’t know that you are ignorant and cannot be cured, it is definitely worst than being a jackass.

    Remember it is not God who must cure a fool but the fool himself by strenuous effort.
    If God can't cure a fool can you?

  • Vj ~ Neither of us can by the same principle, that is, if you don’t know you are fool, but the wise can draw even nectar (wisdom) from poison (a fool) and this is my sole reason for entertaining you.

    And neither can this message get across to a fool who is not prepared to jump the hurdles and barriers of insults or abuses.
    Maintain and keep raising the barriers of insults or abuses and you will find yourself alone in your well.

  • Vj ~ We come alone and we go alone, it is fools who need a lot of company. Such a barrier will always pose an hindrance to the ignorant and never the wise.

    Vj ~ The Swami has accomplished his foremost mission and that is the emancipation of his own soul.
    I didn't think that the Swami was so selfish.

  • Vj ~ How could one be selfish in seeking emancipation, whilst showing us the way? It is Hindus who are selfish to take his life, if they didn’t need emancipation, then they certainly have deprived those whom he could have helped by living.

    BTW how do you know that the Swami attained Moksha?

  • Vj ~ The same way you know the Penis/Vagina (linga) to be that of Shiva and Parbati. Strive for this wisdom and you won’t have to ask such a question.

    Vj ~ Then you must know all the Vedas or more to contradict the Swami’s truth.
    Why can't I know more than the Swami. Is there anything in Vedas that says I can't know more than the Swami?

  • Vj ~ Well, it is you who know more than the Swami, shouldn’t you also know what is in the Vedas? I doubt you know any more than a jackass, who is not in need of God to show him a penis/vagina to better understand the art of procreation.

    Vj ~ Instead of being offended shouldn't you at least try to thank me for pointing out such blatant stupidity?
    I will rather kick you ass for being such an idiot. That will help you correct yourself.

  • Vj ~ That will never happen because the wise know the nature of a jackass to even get that close.

    That gives you the right to declare yourself Swami's true disciple and a license to insult everybody?

  • Vj ~ Ignorance! It is not the Swami or I that insult fools, but the truth we propagate.

    You seem to have mastered the aspects of the Swami where he was mistaken.

  • Vj ~ And despite 130 years of monotheistic reformation, Hindus seem to have mastered ignorance as well. The mistake is that a fool sees true knowledge as a mistake, because they are mentally lazy.

    How could extensive invasion, subjugation, destitution, poverty, diseases (pain and misery) etc. be the fruits of righteousness, if the Swami's message was right and he succeeded in getting them across?

  • Vj ~ The fact is, that whatever got across saved India from further deterioration but whatever pain and suffering still exist are due to Hinduism, and believe me nothing righteous can get across a fool like you.

    You are an idiot because of your idols which the Vedas opposed , and which gave them something to destroy.
    You can be so confusing.

  • Vj ~What else can you expect if you have dead brain cells like your idols?

    Don't you have your idols in the form of Sacred Thread Fire Agnihotra the Swami Vedas etc.?

  • Vj ~ We only consider wisdom to be holy because God is All-wise and no idiot can offend a wise man much less his God.

    Would you be happy if someone pisses in the Sacred Fire spits on Vedas and hurls insults at the Swami?

  • Vj ~ Of course, I couldn't be more happy for the fool who does it. "I thank thee for thy rule benign and thy kind protection and all those who are the dreaded forces of mine I lay them humbly at they gracious feet.” I hold no malice towards any because it is only fools who try to undo His justice.

    The Swami has accomplished his foremost mission and that is the emancipation of his own soul.
    Can you see Vj how you contradict yourself and how you USE the Swami for supporting your nonsense.

  • Vj ~ No jackass, I see no contradiction. If a man's main mission is to help the impoverished sick, then his foremost mission would be to first become a doctor. The same would apply to the Swami, so where is the contradiction? This is what the Swami said himself in the Light of Truth.
    "The sole aim of my life which I have also endeavored to achieve is the help to put an end to this mutual wrangling, preach universal truths bring all men into the fold of one religion whereby they may cease to hate each other and instead may firmly love one another, live in peace and work for their common weal."
    Like the doctor how could the aim of freeing other souls be possible if the foremost of attaining samadhi (self-realization) weren't already achieved by him?

    Vj ~ My goal is the same (emancipation of soul) whether you choose to remain a fool or seek enlightenment it is no way an impediment to my mission.
    Another contradiction. I can go on but I don't want to.

  • Vj ~ Why, tired of being a jackass?

    Dialogue 16
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    Vinata - Monday 13-Mar-2000
    I think Vijai Bhai is doing an excellent job in tying his opponents into knots with logic or correct knowledge. More logical critical minds are needed in this world so that all insane wars started by religious bigots who don't deal with logic but instead warped notions of God based on supernatural myth and legends surrounding so-called divine figures can be stopped.

    The only divine one is God. God, the ruler of the whole Universe, who gave all humanity the Vedas. The Vedas deal with scientific facts and natural law both these subjects meaning one and the same thing. Via the yogic process, logic helps all humans decide the best way to achieve not only his/her own welfare but one that will bring maximum benefit to all.

    Now if that isn't a noble may I clarify that an Aryan basis for having this discussion board I don't know what is. Can you tell me of any other clearly scientific and divine way of bringing this world of ignorance to universal truths, which will lead to peace and eventually final emancipation?
    Best wishes to you. Vinita

    Hello Jeff - Monday 13-Mar-2000
    VJ I doubt you remember me but I was looking at a ridiculous argument on some message board and I remembered you from some time ago.

  • Vj ~ How can I forget when you left in disgust posting the same bias message on every one of my boards. Wise men will always be grateful since even fools also contribute to their enlightenment (drawing nectar from poison).

    I really don't argue this type of thing anymore (you played a big role in seeing the futility of it by the way)

  • Vj ~ Your futility is my gain and you have proven that "God has no cure for a fool". You are still doing some good, while depriving your own soul.

    but every now and then I poke my head into some debate board to remind myself how pointless it really is.

  • Vj ~ Even those of static intellects (false dogmas) have some hope even though they lack reasoning I can't imagine why one who professes to be above them cannot find some rationality in these conversations.

    I just couldn't resist the urge to check in on you to see if you were up to the same old nonsense.

  • Vj ~ Either that or you are the same old fool when you last left. Now how would you know what has changed? You can claim consistency in recognizing my 'nonsense' as I also lay claim to consistency in my wisdom. However, since you are the one coming and going there is no doubt who is consistent in being an idiot.

    Sure enough you are spouting the same drivel over and over.

  • Vj ~ It is the mark of a good teacher to show such graceful patience even though the shameful act of ignorance is so glaring within the student.

    It was well over a year that I was here last and you are still stuck on exactly the same things phrases logic etc... It hasn't changed one bit!

  • Vj ~ The truth is the truth - from the beginning to the end, only a fool will try to change it. Here is something new! Today Christianity is asking for apologies for a religion that could not have protected them from committing past atrocities and science on the other hand, is also seeking new truths while discrediting the old. Because they are both looking for something new billions would have come and gone without ever knowing what is truth. To this I say, what an injustice?

    I guess I have to admire your level of commitment.

  • Vj ~ When you would have come to admire the knowledge that is disseminated here only then it can be of benefit to you not otherwise.

    Anyway I just thought I'd say hello and now I'll be on me way. Keep it up. You have been keeping many, many people amused for some time now.

  • Vj ~ Thank you for dropping by but you must know that fools are also amusement for the wise especially by their hastened departures.

    Dialogue 17
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    Namaste Bahenji - Saturday 1-Apr-2000
    Yes Jesus was by no means great by Vedic standards. By this I suppose we mean that he didn't preach Vedic science in its entirety the one true dharma based on reason.
  • Vj ~ There are no sciences whatever anywhere in the Bible and whatever the messages of the Bible are they are not in harmony with reasoning neither are they in harmony with science nor any of them confirm with the immutable laws of nature.

    If we look at the Bible and specifically the gospels in the New Testament Jesus seems to have been greatly preoccupied with issues surrounding social and political justice issues that concern the Vedas too.

  • Vj ~ What justice is there in raising the dead to continue in the path of sin (false dogmas)? What justice is there in preaching the forgiveness of sins when he said to the contrary "And then he shall reward every man according to his works." Matt14: 27"? What justice is there when Jesus says "I AM the Way the Truth and the Life NO ONE comes to the FATHER except through ME" John 14:6" when millions in remote regions never heard of him?

    Why this is, is because of the similarity that the book shares with the Ramayana and Mahabharata it depicts historical events in narrative form - they are itihaas.

  • Vj ~ History, direct cognition, testimony, inference, etc. are only means of evidences in ascertaining truth. If the Bible (as the Mahabharata and the Ramayana are) is history then where is the revelation (truth) that it is looking for?

    I can't agree his character should be judged by the depraved events depicted in the Bible.

  • Vj ~ All the great Rishis of yore from Rishi Jaimini to Swami Dayanand have studied practiced and have written their own philosophical treatise and in this way wise men have judged them to be great because their wisdom are all in harmony with each other. What has Jesus written himself that wise men can judge him to be great? Moses said "eye for an eye" and Jesus said " to turn the other cheek" - these are two opposing messages from two messengers of the same God. It does not only speak of inconsistency of the messengers but the God who sent them.

    Mass murder, sexual harassment greed pride are just some of the indecencies mentioned in the Mahabharata and the Ramayana but you wouldn't tar the truly great Aryan personages Krishna and Rama with that dirty brush now would you?

  • Vj ~ No, but I would not hesitate to tar the idiots (Hindus) who have painted such immaculate pieces of our glorious past with such filth. Lord Krishna and Shri Ram Chandra were great Yogis (not God) and if you don't have the wisdom to recognize that yet, know that you too are not far removed from the static intellect of a Hindu.

    As my previous posting attempted to point out historical context and compatibility with the Vedas is crucial in understanding these texts properly.

  • Vj ~ Whatever is opposed to the Vedas can never be made compatible to it in any shape, form or knowledge.

    In the same way that Swami Dayanand's clear analysis of the Ramayana and Mahabharata revealed the true historical nature of its main characters who had very definite noble qualities, so do the works of biblical scholars Barbara Theiring and Robert Eisenmann in the case of Jesus.

  • Vj ~ Dayanand had the wisdom of the Vedas to determine the greatness of the Ramayana and Mahabharata (characters) by what wisdom did these biblical scholars have to define the nobility of Jesus he being the character of the same vulgar and obscene Bible?

    He was very definitely a man who was a social reformer, strict vegetarian and believed that sincere meditation and prayer to God and not to any person could bring salvation. He performed no miracles.

  • Vj ~ When are you going to wake up - and which Christian sees him as such?

    What are your thoughts on the historical Jesus?

  • Vj ~ I have no doubt that Jesus may have been a person of great moral stance but as I said before wise men cannot make judgment of one's greatness because one simply did not put anything in writing oneself. Namaste

    Dialogue 18
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    Namaste Bahenji - Saturday 12-Feb-2000
    What is role of God (the efficient cause) in such heinous crimes such as rape murder etc?
  • Vj ~ God is Just, therefore the innocent can never suffer and if they do, it is not God who is unjust but your lack of understanding of his Nature Attribute and Characteristics. You can’t blame the law because you are ignorant of it, the same with God.

    If the answer is that of dispensing the laws of natural justice is there a pre-ordained time by which these souls will finally realize their subordination to the Almighty?

  • Vj ~ No action of the human soul is pre-ordained. Activity is superior to destiny and whenever contact is made with the correct knowledge, only then we can be on our way to "finally realize their subordination of the Almighty".

    And is that time possibly just before the dissolution of this creation as most souls would have either had to have been emancipated or approached a very high stage so that the peaceful harmonious era of the new creation's Vedic Age can begin once again?

  • Vj ~ If all souls find enlightenment or emancipation before the grand dissolution then where would souls (evil actions) of vegetation and other creatures be found to start a new creation? Think of your own soul and what you must do to liberate it and leave the others to God's justice. Inclinations of high, medium and low because of past actions play an important role in the individual uplift of the soul. Many are doomed to lower births of pain and misery, compulsion being so. Namaste.

    Namaste Bhai Ashegan - Saturday 15-Apr-2000
    is the death of arya samaj drawing nigh? when we would dare to rise against the word of swamiji himself and ridicule his interpretation of the veda? read the following and find out...

  • Vj ~ I will start to worry when I loose you. (smile) Yes my friend, it is a true sign that retrogression and decadence will be the norm of Kaliyug, when even the little of true religion of the Vedas that was brought to light again, begin its decline again. However you have the will to continue this battle beginning with yourself and remember whenever you sign a guestbook remember to leave an URL - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/3440/books.html - The Light of Truth. It would have been what Swami Dayanand most desired of you. Namaste

    Namaste Bhaiji - Sunday 16-Apr-2000
    vj you are my only comfort in this cyber-place where my own fellow aryas ridicule me for not moving with the times and compromising my beliefs to accomodate the hindus...

  • Vj ~ Then they are not true Aryas and little do they know that they have more to suffer than those they compromise with in the name of religious tolerance.

    they are starting to rationalise and justify all the adharmik things great aryans have died trying to destroy... it saddens me vj...

  • Vj ~ It is indeed the nature of wisdom to be remorseful in circumstances of steep ignorance but at the same time, there is joy in witnessing the unfolding of God's Divine justice. Compulsion being so. You’re your soul and leave the rest to God’s divine justice.

    ;... the lax atttude of the aryas around me makes me sick to the stomach and i'm fighting off disillusionment with my own dharma...

  • Vj ~ These are only signs for you my friend to retreat faithfully and strenuously into personal and selfless practice of yoga and when there is no more grief, know that you have conquered all your weaknesses even that of the worst that is yet to come.

    what do i do when even the arya pratinidhi sabha has an idol hanging in their conference room? who do i turn to? am i alone?

  • Vj ~ Don't let the fallen ways of your fellow aryas be an impediment to your personal goal of becoming a true Arya. Purity and conviction of the soul what is good for you alone, is good for the world and what is pain to you is painful to others. When you would have found yourself immersed in the bliss of the Divine alone and no one to turn to you would have found all the answers. Namaste.

    Dialogue 19
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    Namaste Hindu - Monday 1-May-2000
    Vj ~That is the whole idea, belief in any circumstances is ignorance, knowing is knowledge. It is only by the practice of the correct knowledge one can perform good deeds, practice true ethics and morality.
    That doesn't answer the question.
  • Vj ~ What good can come out of the answer when the idiot is at his lowest level (idol-worship)?

    The question is: whether people like Raman Maharshi Ramkrishna Paramhansa Sri Aurobindo Swami Vivekananda and many more like these were sinners because they called themselves Hindus indulged in murti puja and didn't subscribe to the idea that murti puja was a positive sin?

  • Vj ~ Had you a brain that works you would have also noticed that Hinduism is anti-Vedic and whatever or whoever is indulged in it is a sinner also. As matter of fact, they are bigger sinners than those they preached to by having the knowledge but no action (Vedic). However, it is these souls, who are reincarnated as the 'great' scientists of this modern age and if you call it a reward then it must be questioned since the greater majority are materialistic atheists.

    Vj ~ Rituals without action (idol-worshipper) is a sin but knowledge without action (evil Arya Samaji) is a greater sin. Although the Arya Samaji's punishment would be greater it will be swifter (shorter period) and is certain begin with somewhat a higher inclination for truth because of what he acquired from the Vedas while the idol-worshipper will continue for many, many more births in pain and misery not certain of when he will acquire even the inclination for truth.
    You are talking like Mohammed promising to be there on the day of judgment to advocate the "believers'" case before Allah.

  • Vj ~ Better this way than to believe that all sins are washed away by a mere dip in the Ganges.

    Nobody's punishment would be greater than an asshole like you.

  • Vj ~ When the truth of the Vedas can disturb a Hindu this much, one can only wonder what greater pain lies ahead for him. Besides, how can I suffer if the Ganges is still flowing?

    Ashegan can take all this crap from you simply because you call yourself an Arya Samaji but he shows great writing skills and scholarship while preaching others. That is putting one's brand of Arya Samaj above truth.

  • Vj ~ Even though so young (18) he is very inquisitive he has indeed an exemplary approach to acquiring true knowledge a valuable lesson indeed for a Hindu. Now all we have do, is figure a way to get your static intellect to work. "Hindu" (persian) means "stupid". Are you proud of that?

    Dialogue 20
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    Namaste Hindu - Tuesday 2-May-2000
    Vj ~ What good can come out of the answer when the idiot is at his lowest level (idol-worship)?
    That is the most dull argument from someone who is always boasting of reasoning based on Vaidic knowledge.
  • Vj ~ Could it not be "dull" because you are arguing at the lowest level instead of "reasoning based on Vedic knowledge?

    What happened to your gray matter that you can't see beyond names and forms?

  • Vj ~ Any state of matter is still a better case before it takes the form of the linga, which is a definitely a lustful distraction to the intellect especially the ignorant.

    You are the worst idolator.

  • Vj ~ From a Hindu's perspective of idol-worship, what could be so wrong about that?

    You seem to know exactly who is reincarnated as what! And you want others to believe you!

  • Vj ~ As a Hindu who also believes in reincarnation, you really don't think a complete idiot can be reincarnated with such a high intellectual gift.

    Vj ~Better this way than to believe that all sins are washed away by a mere dip in the Ganges.
    Rarely a person is more prejudiced and irrational as yourself. Now you prefer a rapist, a murderer, a plunderer over someone who takes a dip in Ganga.

  • Vj ~ It is those who are most likely to take the dip in the Ganges, or do you think no Hindu rapist, murderer, plunderer' have taken a dip in the Ganges yet?

    Vj ~ When the truth of the Vedas can disturb a Hindu this much one can only wonder what greater pain lies ahead for him
    There is no state worse than what you are in now.

  • Vj ~ How could it be when you are the one doing the apologizing?

    Even though so young (18) he (Ashegan) is very inquisitive he has indeed an exemplary approach to acquiring true knowledge a valuable lesson indeed for a Hindu.
    That is why I can't believe he is seeking answers from you.

  • Vj ~ Better me than any Hindu, since he detests idolatry.

    and not telling you how absurd and self-centric your arguments are.

  • Vj ~ Perhaps if he were a Hindu, he would have, but fortunate for him his sanskaras are good ones obviously not the result of a previous life as a Hindu.

    Vj ~ Now all we have do is figure a way to get you static intellect to work.
    If that is indeed what you are trying to figure out you will have to give up the nonsensical approach you have been using so far.

  • Vj ~ What sense would that make if I have to approach it like a Hindu?

    "Hindu" (persian) means "stupid". Are you proud of that?
    I am extremely proud to be a Hindu. I feel pity for those who can't see beyond words, symbols and idols.

  • Vj ~ Well, if by your own admittance you are proud of being stupid, what else can I say to a fool who is proud at one moment and pitying himself the next? Namaste.

    Dialogue 21
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    Reply to: Vijay Chauhan - ezboard messageboards - February 19, 2002
    The very basic principles defined in this Website - IN SEARCH OF THE ONE TRUE RELIGION, do not confirm with the teachings of Swami Dayanand and the ‘Vedas’. Following texts are extracted from it for analysis afterwards.
  • Vj ~ If this "Website" does not confirm to the teachings of Swami Dayanand and the Vedas, it is no one else's fault but Vijay Chauhan, since he knew what confirmed but selfishly kept it to himself until now. Swami Dayanand also said a little of this knowledge (without practice) can be very dangerous and Vijay Chauhan is indeed a fine example of its danger, not so much to others but mostly to himself. I only wonder where we would have been, had Swami Dayanand acted in such manner seeking only book knowledge.

    Analysis: ‘Universal righteousness’ or ‘Saarvabhaumic Dharma’ never decays. Because according ‘ManuSmriti’, the definition of ‘Veda’ is: “Vedo-akhilo Dharma Mulam” i.e. Veda is the root of Dharma or Universal righteousness

  • Vj ~ Veda is indeed the root cause of Dharma, but not Dharma until it's knowledge is harnessed. When a seed starts to root, it must be nourished by water, good soil, sunlight, etc. only then it becomes a tree that blossomed to bear fruits. Like the tree, the Veda also must be read, studied and put into practice (yoga) before it can bear the fruits of Dharma. Secondly, universal righteousness is only possible when the whole world is immersed in the wisdom of the Vedas which it was in the very beginning (Satyug). In this age of Kaliyug the majority are ignorant of this Dharma so only a very, very few (does not including Vijay Chauhan yet) are individually striving for it. I see no discrepency in my statement, only that the one who is rebutting it has an inflated ego ready to destroy himself. Can Vijay Chauhan explain for the benefit of the world what his practice of this Dharma consists of, besides reading and what positive results have come out of it for him?

    Let a man never renounce Dharma (righteousness) either through lust or through fear, or through greed or even to save his life, since Dharma is imperishable, while pleasure or pain is perishable, the soul is immortal, while the body is mortal." MAHAABHARAAT. - Statement of beliefs, ‘Light of truth’ It means that Dharma defined in the Veda, never decays or perishes.

  • Vj ~ If it is possible for a man to renounce Dharma, does that not mean it decays since a man can perish without it? The Veda (knowledge) is eternal, but wisdom, which must be acquired , the first principle created is finite and all things finite must come to an end, it is a law. Dharma (righteousness) is the practice of true knowledge (Veda) and if there is no practice and only rejection, then Dharma has declined. As I have said in one of my many posts to you, you have discovered the knowledge but you are yet to put it to practice.

    According to Vedas, God promises happiness for virtuous souls.

  • Vj ~ God does not make promises, it is the nature of wisdom which automatically grants the virtuous happiness while the opposite brings forth pain and misery.

    Therefore in any Yuga, there can be decay or progress of Individual righteousness according to the acts of a soul.

  • Vj ~ I am glad you came along, I wouldn't have 'known' that people grew old and died in Satyug - a law.

    “The orthodox believe that these Yugas influence the conduct of the human race for good or for evil, hence they have given these Yugas the names of Golden, Silver, Bronze and Iron respectively. The author does not share this view.” This note is right, as nowhere Swami Dayanand shared these views; in fact he opposed such types of views. Hence the Web Site Creator’s statement that the worst is yet to come in the present age due to influence of Kaliyuga on the conduct of the people for evil, is completely false.

  • Vj ~ Note, it is not the author who himself said it, and being one of a very noble character, he would have refrained from sharing the "view". Knowing how backward man had become, it would have made his work of disseminating the Vedic religion even more difficult, since like you who know so much but cannot yet grasp the true functions of natural laws, what about them? It is not incumbent upon the Rishis to hand us salvation, they can only show us the way the rest is up to us by our own strenuous efforts in studies and practice.

    Decadence of created Universe will only begin in that time period and not in this ‘Kaliyuga’.

  • Vj ~ It already began, like a taking delivery of new car, why would it have to wait. Kaliyuga is the last age of this cycle of creation if is not, then perhaps you can explain what is meant by "minor" and "grand" dissolution.

    The Website author do not consider acquired knowledge as cause of progress. But Swami Dayanand regards acquired knowledge alone as the cause of progress.

  • Vj ~ If he didn't insist it was progress the ignorant would not have been moved to acquire the knowledge. But when you would have practiced this knowledge only then you would know that it is strictly for maintaining the purity needed for emancipation. When the Vedas was revealed it was revealed to the purest of souls, it shows that the souls were already pure (by the efforts of previous births).

    Analysis: The Website author do not consider acquired knowledge as cause of progress. But Swami Dayanand regards acquired knowledge alone as the cause of progress. Also he maintains that every child possesses goodness or virtue and becomes polluted with sin as he ages. But Swami Dayanand disagrees with him. According to Rishi Dayanand the child does not posses accurate knowledge of virtue and sin, but only after study he gets it. These are clear from the following text from the ‘Light of Truth’: -

  • Vj ~ I maintained that every child is sinless and pure, in whatever condition they are born, even in suffering, and that is the state of purity we must maintain by the practice of true knowledge. It is obvious a child cannot lust or intentionally commit crimes, et. while those who inspite of possession of accurate knowledge of virtue and sin can.What is clear is that you have not sit down to put this knowledge into practice for the benefit of yourself yet and that your motive is a selfish one, more like that of an inflated ego.

    On the other hand, ignorance causes one’s decay or progress downwards.

  • Vj ~ So am I not right then about decay of righteousness, when we are in an age where the wise are very few?

    Therefore, if a person has performed virtuous and right deeds during his whole lifetime or age, he should be regarded as virtuous and not as sinful, even in the old age. Again, yours ‘Natural Law of decay’ fails here.

  • Vj ~ How did it fail when he is as pure (in thoughts) as the child he was, once again?

    People are concerned with the final or end results, not the intermediate decay or mixture. If the result is progress upward even after decay, it is regarded as good. If there were no progress upwards for humans, by the production of bread and iron, they would have stopped the production. What else you regard progress upwards - non-production of bread, leading to starvation of people? Also, there is no effect of any Satyuga or Kaliyuga on this process?

  • Vj ~ Progress is when man can do with out "bread and iron". It is obvious that these things didn't play any significant part in the beginning which undoubtedly was the purest age of all human civilization. And if it is a necessity now, it only shows how impure we have become.

    Again, the person and its actions caused the decay or creation, and not the time or ‘Yuga’.

  • Vj ~ So are you saying that if we leave a car unused, it will never decay, time will protect it, as long as it is protected from man and his actions? Then again if man and his actions cause decay, why then a set age for dissolution?

    I hope that the Website author will also provide evidences from ‘Vedas’ and ‘Shaastras’ to support his views.

  • Vj ~ If "evidences" from the Vedas and Shaastras were enough, don't you wonder why a billion Hindus, who revered the Vedas, are still idol-worshippers? The few quotations the Rishis used are only to aid the discriminating intellect on its journey to self-realization. It is not meant to be used as proofs for the ignorant, who thoroughly lacks reasoning. The evidence lies in your desire to sacrifice 3 to 4 hours everyday to sit in contemplation (communion/yoga) to remove all doubts and achieve a state in harmony with the Rishis. Until you can do that everything I have written on my site, will be up for contradiction. I hope these few responses will be enough to urge you on to such a practice. May your efforts bear you fruits of true wisdom in this journey.
    Namaste.

    Dialogue 22
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    Reply to Vijay Chauhan - Ezboard messageboards - February 22, 2002
    Vj ~ Any idiot can make such a claim of an ability to distinguish truth from falsity. Your rebuttals are not a display of wisdom but only of what other people have written. Surely as 'wise' as you have claimed to be, it shouldn't be difficult to tell us what is your practice of this Dharma consists of? Or in simple language, please tell us the methods you apply in your practice which "one needs to harness the knowledge" in order to know the truth.
    Why are you so eager about knowing my methods to harness the knowledge?
  • Vj ~ Well, it is quite obvious that if I must contradict others, I must have a better way, how else are others going to take me seriously? And since you yourself very appropriately said it here -
    "Remember, the sayings of 'Inquirer' (Dayanand), "if all good man teach alike there will be one religion in no time." How can we fulfill the dream of great, great Dayanand of establishing one religion of 'Vedas', if we ourselves differ in our views?"
    It is simple logic my friend, if our views differ, even though we read the same books of this one great teacher, it is because our methods of practice differ. It is perfectly clear why we need to clarify the methods of practice before we move on.

    Vc ~ Well, I do not keep the people in darkness, like yours ‘Darkness’ of Kaliyuga. The methods to harness the knowledge are very clearly written in the ‘Light of Truth’ by Swami Dayanand. But even after getting this ‘Light’, people search the ‘Darkness’. You are one of the examples.

  • Vj ~ You are definitely keeping them in darkness by keeping your methods of practice a secret because it is not by knowledge alone a man acquires dharma (wisdom) but by action. Surely, enough it is written in the Light of Truth, but I am curious to know why it works so 'well' for you and not for me.

    People like you, who are prejudiced by falsity, never accept them. I have seen blinds that could not see the light. But there are people with vision; even then they could not recognize the ‘Light’. (You must have seen the views of Swami Dayanand, in Chapter 11, about Kaliyuga.)

  • Vj ~ Satyartha Prakasha means "the meaning of the Light of truth" - the meaning cannot be grasped by reading (perception) alone but by the correct practice (yoga) and if reading is all that you have done so far you are not in a position to contradict one who has done both.

    Vj ~ Ah! you have now touched on the subject of practice and if mine is questionable, you, on the other hand, should have no difficulty in telling those I have 'misled' what your practice is consists of?
    Vc ~ Again, very enthusiastic to know mine’s practice. Well, it is other than yours malpractice of ‘rejection’ of the ‘Truth about Kaliyuga and its misery’ given by ‘Acharya’.

  • Vj ~ I don't see how failing to display your method of practice proves mine false.

    I regard this as yours futile attempt for the ‘decay’ of ‘Universal Righteousness’. But can you ever destroy the ‘Vedas’ or ‘true knowledge’?

  • Vj ~ What ("Vedas or true knowledge") is eternal cannot perish, a law. Here, it is only one's methods of practice which can determine who is truly destroying one self.

    I think it will be better to tell the ‘Truth about Kaliyuga’ publicly, instead of showing it in yours corrupted website. I leave you with your ‘sufferings’ and ‘progression downward’. Rightly, written in Mansmriti - "Not to sow the seed of knowledge in those ignorants, who never accept it. "

  • Vj ~ I have spoken the truth in accordance to my studies and practice, but I am at a lost to understand how one who is unwilling or has no pride in one's practice can outrightly do the rejection.

    Let's make it short and to the point, if you are still bathing with warm water after your "studies and practice", you are not ready to challenge me on Vedic wisdom. Had you any intelligence worthy of humility, we would have been discussing one subject at time instead of the whole Vedas and shastraas. Your ego is running wild; anxious to show off the little you know which is very typical of Arya Samajists of today.
    Vc ~ Surely, the same I could expect from the persons who are not ‘Arya Samajist’. They do not have enough courage to accept the challenge of public-debate.

  • Vj ~Swami Shankarcharya was a Vedantist who preached some 2200 years before Swami Dayanand, but in all the works I have studied of Swami Dayanand he had nothing but praise for Shankarcharya even though much opposed the Vedas. As humble as he (Dayanand) was, he knew that it was still a very worthy and noble effort. Likewise, if there is another Arya on this internet who has the will and courage as I do, I would have nothing but good things to say even if there are a few discrepancies. Neither Swami Shankarcharya nor Swami Dayanand ever challenge a fellow arya, but sought ways and means to elevate their souls by encouragement. Even Pt. Gurudutta Vidyarthi who was an devouted atheist and a very close friend of Swamiji was never challenged to a shastrarth (debate). Such is the nature of wisdom, wise men can tell by a man's disposition, in whatever category (scientific or spiritual), bad or good intentions whether they are deserving of being chastised or praised. Even though India was under foreign subjugation, Swamiji still had high praises for the British system of justice, freedom of speech, proper organization and their achievements through science even though they had total disdain for the true source.

    Keep on hiding in your small website. When yours ‘Practices’ imbibe enough courage in you, come in India (Delhi) and speak openly about yours views regarding ‘Kaliyuga and its pre-destined misery’. Acharya Ushrbudh or me will come forward again for its ‘Debunking’. We are always ‘wild’ or bold like Swami Dayanand to refute the falsity. You will have the option to choose one subject or all subjects at a time.

  • Vj ~ Had a soul of my inclination been fortunate to take birth in India, I probably would have been a Rishi by now, but the law of karma dictated otherwise for me. But it is indeed a great relief to know that even though, born in the Guyana and now surrounded by the fast and constantly growing materialist Western world (Canada) this twice-born soul, who never set foot in the land of the great Rishis of yore, is free of the egoism you now possess, that could have otherwise relegate the soul to immense pain and misery.

    Vc ~ I am happy (even in Kaliyuga) that you have given a Vedic-mantra for evidence. Even more happiness the ‘aryas’ would have got, if you had given evidences of yours defined ‘Natural Laws’ from the ‘Vedas’.

  • Vj ~A man with an ego as yours cannot be happy man. Again the Vedas is only knowledge and when that knowledge is practice it is called wisdom or Dharma and if you still seek evidences after your studies, know that are yet to put into practice this knowledge.

    I am impressed by the way you refute falsity in other religions and evolution theory. But its unfortunate that you use these 'Natural Laws' to oppose their views.

  • Vj ~ You now sound more like a hypocrite since these people know nothing of the Vedas, it is obvious that it is these laws that stood tall in debunking their theories and beliefs, so how could you be impressed with my criticism whilst contradicting them (the laws) at the same time.

    Being a hopeful person, I still await for your proper action.

  • Vj ~ If you are, then do not hesitate to begin the practice necessary. I will be more than happy to help you along.

    I could have accepted yours 'Natural laws', but how can I go against Swami Dayanand, after seeing his very clear views about 'Kaliyuga' in Chapter 11.

  • Vj ~ Perception alone is not the path to this wisdom, otherwise sightless Swami Virjanand could not have qualified to be the Guru of Maharishi Swami Dayanand Saraswati. The Rishis have spent a greater part of their time in comtemplation (yoga) before they could have had a clear view of the Vedas, so must we too, be prepared to spend a greater part of our time to grasp the clear views of the Rishis.

    Hoping to meet you next time in India (Delhi), either as an opponent or a friend. Although we have many differences in opinions, at least there is one thing common in between us - we both believe in the Vedas.

  • Vj ~ If ever I visit India or make her permanent place of abode, it will be for the greater benefit of my own soul and not to seek out one with an ego as high as the Himalayas. Not to forget that, 1 billion Hindus have one thing in common with you also. Belief in the Vedas is of no benefit to the human soul, without reasoning and serious practice (yoga).
    Namaste

    Dialogue 23
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    In reply to Satish Prakash Arya, PhD of the MDG: Friday, November 01, 2002
    Subject: Re-endorsement of a Vedic Website
    "Satyanand, Namaste I commend you on this noble project. The color contrast is very attractive. I feel motivated to come to the website. Dr. Satish Prakash"
  • Vj ~ Namaste Bhai Satish,
    How are you my brother?
    It is amazing what mere color can do to a staunch arya like yourself, it was an instant attraction, while one that is full of knowledge brought neither attraction nor motivation even after more than 6 years on the Web. You are so fortunate, sightless Swami Virjanand would have been been very disappointed, had he lived to this internet age.

    Had I known you were so attracted to "color contrast" I could have done the same to motivate you to my site instead of wasting my time on bringing forth the knowledge itself.
    May the Omniscient One of the Vedas continue to inspire you.
    Your brother in Dharma,
    Vijai

    In reply to Satish - Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002
    Subject: Re: The company of the wise are few.
    Bhai Satish - "Bhai Vijai, Namaste"

  • Vj ~ Namaste Bhai Satish, I am so happy to hear from you personally. True Dharma brings those who adhered to it together, but for some reason the two of us got separated. Where did I go wrong?

    Bhai Satish - "I am glad that a stauch soul like yourself is motivated by color - your email came to me in red."

  • Vj ~ I was only trying to make you feel at home since you were attracted and motivated by color.

    Bhai Satish - "Color is a great quality - the Rishis chose the color of the sun to be indicative of the Sannyasi's mission of spreading wisdom, and they chose black to refer to a soul lost in Tamas. So, yes, color has a powerful function of informing."

  • Vj ~ Then try to be consistent with the teachings of the Rishis by impartially informing (endorsing) the former also, rather than only the latter.

    Bhai Satish - "With regard to your website, I visited it several times. My visit to your website made me aware of your dedication to the Rishi's writings - the fact that you downloaded his various works on the net. And, in my conversations with Subha, I communicated my appreciation of your efforts."

  • Vj ~ I too, could have have communicated my appreciation of your efforts to Pandit Sitaramji, but what good is that to you? Besides, if we are going to "imbibe the spirit of understanding intent of written language", the Swami 's works was not simply "downloaded", it was the result of years of strenuous personal effort (study and practice).

    Bhai Satish - "It would be commendable if you could imbibe the spirit of understanding intent in written language."

  • Vj ~ It would be commendable if you can imbibe the quality of impartiality while "understanding intent in written language."

    Bhai Satish - "You evidently did not understand what I wrote in my message to Satyanand."

  • Vj ~ I fully understood your message to Satyanand, how else would I have taken note of your attraction and motivation to color (his site) rather than the discussion (Shastrarth) of true knowledge (my site)?

    Bhai Satish - "In such circumstances, it would be nice for you to first find out my intent."

  • Vj ~ I did, you favor Satyanand through color, while never communicated to me personally on the Vedic knowledge (my work) you were specifically trained to disseminate.

    Bhai Satish - "Swami Virjanand, even though sightless, saw through intent."

  • Vj ~ True, but you have both but yet fail on intent to communicate your appreciation impartially to all, that is, those engaged in the propagation of the Vedic knowledge.

    Bhai Satish - "You are more fortunate that the Swami - you have sight, and so, you can scale great heights in developing understanding.
    Understannding helps us select our thoughts, words and deeds."

  • Vj ~ Very true, your "thoughts, words and deeds" did come into question, what else could have led to this dialogue?
    Namaste,
    Your brother in Dharma,
    Vijai

    Dialogue 24
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    In reply to Dr. Satish - Saturday, November 02, 2002
    Bhai Vijai, Namaste
    ....For some reason the two of us got separated. Where did I go wrong?
    Bhai Satish - "Look for the answer in the contents of your response."
  • Vj ~ I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but instead you chose to prove how proud you are of book knowledge alone, against one who puts it into practice instead.
    The contents of all my responses whether it be to you or to those who oppose the Vedic religion is in accordance to the true objective of Shastrarth initiated by Maharishi Swami Dayanand Saraswati. My answers are opened to all the world (via the internet) to see, read, understand, accept or reject, where is yours as a Ph.D graduate of the Rishi's own institution?

    Bhai Satish - "And, before you jump to respond again, think for a while."

  • Vj ~ WISE MEN DO NOT HAVE TO THINK, IT IS WHAT, WITH CONSISTENT EFFORT, MADE THEM WISE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    Bhai Satish - "In thinking, if you come up with an answer worth a good cause, use it to the advantage of the Rishi's cause."

  • Vj ~ If my site, as it stands, does not speak for itself, as a "good cause" in the name of the "Rishi's cause", then you are indeed one blind bat of a PhD. When the answer is truly "worth a good cause", it must first be of greater advantage to the aspirant before even attempting to propagate the Rishi's cause.

    In short, the answer is, you do not have the humility to show gratitude or appreciation for true noble work. I have to admit that philosophically, you are indeed a brilliant scholar of which I am proud of, and have done a lot more ritualistically in keeping with the Rishi's work than I, but had you put even a little of the knowledge into practice as I did, our thoughts would have been completely in harmony with each other.

    Namaste,
    Your brother,
    Vijai


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    Part I

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    "Just as color cannot be perceived by ears, nor sound by eyes; in like manner, the Eternal Supreme Spirit is not perceptible to the senses. He can only be seen by a pure soul through the purity of heart, acquisition of knowledge and the practice of yoga. Just as one cannot reap the advantages of knowledge without acquiring it, likewise the Supreme Spirit cannot be seen without the practice of yoga and gaining the highest knowledge." The Light of Truth

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