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Reply to World of Peace - Date:06-29-05
My religion, which is my way of life has taught me to deal with everything. I am happy and content with it.
Well World_of_Peace if you are happy with intolerant instructions as these what more can I tell you.
Quran tells us to: "not to make friendship with Jews and Christians" (5:51), fight them "until they pay the Jizya (a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (9:29). "kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (2:191), "murder them and treat them harshly" (9:123), "fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (9:5).
Quran says that all those who disbelieve in Islam to hell (5:10), they are najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), and orders us to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193). It prohibits a Muslim to befriend a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (9:23), (3:28).
It says that the "non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water" (14:17). It asks the Muslims to "slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that they shall have great punishment in the world hereafter" (5:34). And tells us that "for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods" (22:19-22) and that they not only will have "disgrace in this life, on the Day of Judgment He shall make them taste the Penalty of burning (Fire)" (22:9).
Quran says that "those who invoke a god other than Allah not only should meet punishment in this world but the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to them, and they will dwell therein in ignominy" (25:68). For those who "believe not in Allah and His Messenger, He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!" (48:13).
As for him who does not believe in Islam the Prophet says that after he dies it will be announced with a "stern command": "Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (69:30-37)
The holy Prophet prescribes fighting for us and tells us that "it is good for us even if we dislike it" (2:216). Then he advises us to "strike off the heads of the disbelievers"; and after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" (47:4). Our God has promised to "instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers" and has ordered us to "smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them" (8:12). and "to strike terror into (the hearts of the enemies" (8:60).
He has made the Jihad mandatory and warns us that "Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" (9:39). Allah speaks to our Holy Prophet and says "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed" (9:73).
He promises us that in the fight for His cause whether we slay or are slain we return to the garden of Paradise (9:111). In Paradise he will "wed us with Houris (celestial virgins) pure beautiful ones" (56:54), and unite us with large-eyed beautiful ones while we recline on our thrones set in lines (56:20). There we are promised to eat and drink pleasantly for what we did (56:19). And have sex with "boys like hidden pearls" (56:24) and "youth never altering in age like scattered pearls" (76:19)
Reply to Pam - Date:06-29-05
This is not Truth, ...
Vj ~ If I am "arrogant" it is completely your fault, since you know the "Truth" all this time, but refuse to put a definition to it.
Reply to Omega- Date:06-29-05
Jesus Christ is the only Son
of the True Living God.
"I AM the Way to the Father,
there is no other Way, except
Vj ~ So what happened to the Mayan and Inca civilization who knew nothing of Christ?
Would you believe that when you grow wheat, it would take all summer to grow?
Then at harvest time arrives, you must ultimately separate the two parts.
In other words, we all have a relationship with Almighty God.
Only God can truly separate the wheat from the shaft.
Vj ~ You still haven't answered the question, Richard? And since you know what God can do, it should be simple, shouldn't it?
Stupid answers could be the reason Christians don't encourage critical thinking - they don't want to look or be called stupid by the answers.
Unlike the wheat, we have intelligence and the instructions given to us by God is for that purpose of doing our own separation. The truth lies in the effort we make guided by the correct knowledge.
Reply to Pam - Date:06-29-05Dialogue 22
HA HA HA HA, this has creased me up with laughter, LOL. Why on earth should I define 'Truth' to you, who boasts he has not come to learn.
Vj ~ You laughed so much that you forgot to close with your usual "Love and blessings".
Since I am the only one that didn't come to learn, why not show compassion and define it for the others who came to learn.
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Reply to World of Peace - Date:07-03-05
Nowhere do these verses give general permission to kill any one. They were revealed to Prophet Muhammad at the time when the nonbelievers were attacking Makkah's Muslims and threatening those in Madinah. In contemporary jargon we may say that as the Muslims were subject to constant terrorist attacks on Madinah, Allah allowed them to defend themselves
Vj ~ Since they were nonbelievers, it was Allah's fault the Quran was not revealed in the very beginning. It is an injustice to change the rules in the middle of the game depriving so many.
Religious texts, if not read within their proper textual and historical contexts, are easily manipulated and distorted.
Vj ~ The true purpose of "religious texts" when studied and put into practice imbue men with such righteousness that they are always free of enemies. While they may be enemies to the ignorant, in reality, they don't see anyone as an enemy, which leaves them free to enjoy the perpetual bliss of righteousness. This clearly shows that the Quran is not such a text.
As for your blasphemous suggestion and clear additions to the quran with regards to the rewards in paradise, here are the verses:
24. Roundabout them will serve, (devoted) to them. Youths (handsome) as Pearls well-guarded.
25. They will advance to each other, engaging in mutual inquiry.
26. They will say: "Aforetime, we were not without fear for the sake of our people.
27. "But Allah has been good to us and has delivered us from the Penalty of the Scorching Wind. (Chapter 52)
Introducing your own exegesis and placing verses out of context is not a very wise thing to do my friend.
Vj ~ It wouldn't matter how you explain it, it is still a serious violation to natural laws. Only that which is eternal has "no beginning and no end", and since you, your soul, your paradise and all its material worth (virgins, youths, cushions, rivers, wine, honey, palaces, are all created (finite or has a beginning) they have to die or dissolve.
Reply to Pam - Date:07-03-05
The message of Love has never changed, it has remained the same throughout aeons of time, so in this respect, all scriptures have that hallmark of Truth.
Vj ~ Perhaps if you could put a definition to the truth, people of "all scriptures" would be better able to understand where you are coming from.
Reply to World of Peace -Who is a true Muslim, a sunni or a shiite? - Date:07-04-05
I will have to disagree with you about all scriptures being changed. The Quran has not, its author is God not muhammad or anyone else.
Vj ~ The Quran is hate literature and hate cannot be authored by God. But since Muhammad was illiterate, one doesn't have to even second guess who really authored it. Scriptures do change if not the words themselves, the interpretation of them certainly does. Islam is a religion of many sects also Ishmaelis, Sunnis, Shiites, Ahmadiyas, Sufis, etc., even though it is the same books, Quran, hadiths, etc they all have different interpretations. You too as a moderate, have a different interpretation from the extremists who actually are the true Muslims. The Quran still insists the sun is moving and not the earth, but now Muslims know different and it doesn't look good for Allah who authored the Quran.
If those verses are true to what you have explained to be, that Muslims were only protecting themselves from the enemies, then you would have a problem answering how Islam spread to Asia and Europe. Muhammad himself was involved with bloodshed, slaughtering Jews because they would not convert to Islam.
This book shows some of the scientific facts which were discovered recently
Vj ~ Muslims as scientist doesn't mean that the Quran is the source of science, otherwise you will be at a lost to explain where the atheists got their science from.
"We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert EinsteinToday with one billion muslims (apporximately), all have memorised some thing of it, and many have memorized it all.
Vj ~ What good is it, when it is used to wage war, maiming and killing innocent people worldwide? They certainly did memorize those parts where martyrdom leads to 72 virgins. Let's face it, if Muslims abandon the Quran completely for any other scripture in the world, think of how much more peaceful this world will be. Even the Muslims, who are against waging wars, are not happy, as they are always busy complaining of being oppressed in some way or the other because of their religion, even with the privileges of freedom of worship and praying five times a day.
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Reply to World of Peace - Evidences must be in conformity with natural laws - Date:07-05-05
The beauty of Islam is that we have evidence, if there is ever a difference of opinion between scholars, they bring their evidence and it�s not just their opinions.
Vj ~ The "evidence" doesn't seem to be working my friend, when �Muslims will divide into 73 groups. All will be in Hell, except one".
It is the beauty of all religions, not only Islam, but even the atheists have their evidence also. So why are we still so divided in spite of all this evidence? Here is one reason of many, why evidence is not really evidence, which you did not respond to.
It wouldn't matter what evidences the scholars have, the Quran is still a serious violation to natural laws. Only that which is eternal has "no beginning and no ending", and since you, your soul, your paradise and all it's material worth (virgins, youths, cushions, rivers, wine, honey, palaces, are all created (finite or has a beginning) they have to die or dissolve. What is finite must die, it is a law.
If anyone of any religion is desirous of ever knowing the truth, the functions of natural laws must not only be known but properly understood.
Note: Vj, I was interested in a link to the religious scriptures which you follow, I would really like to see similarities if any with Islam. I have visited your website on a few occasions, I could not find such a link, or maybe I might have missed it. Thank you.
Vj ~ When a thing is false it is false and has no similarity with what is true. There are no similarities in any other religion with my FAITH. God is All-wise and All-perfect, meaning that He gave instructions, instructions free of historical references and hate messages, in the very beginning depriving none and to men imbued with purity because He created them pure and perfect.
Islam is in chaos because it was an immoral and illiterate man who co-authored it. It is the reason why no Muslim on earth can enjoy any happiness, and they won't let anyone else enjoy it either, as they are always offended by the truth. If my faith is not known to your scholars there isn't much they can do authenticate or defend the Quran to be a revelation from God.
Reply to World of Peace - Date:07-06-05
Hello, Vedas are books which have been revealed from God to whom?
Keep on reading my friend you will find all you need to know.
How long ago were these books revealed, was it since the creation of man?
Vj ~ It had to be, because God is just and should one be deprived of His revelation, it would have to be one's fault and not God.
Reply to Pam - Date:07-06-05
You are a eternal Being V.J. Your souls is not finite as you have said in the above paragraph. Spirit created souls and the essence of the soul has contained therin the Spirit of the Creator. Just thouhgt I better let you know that.
Vj ~ Dear Pam, note that I am referring to his soul and not mine. I know my soul is an eternal entity, but Jews, Christians and Muslims in, particular all believe the soul was created and therefore, they don't believe in the previous existence of the soul.
Keep on reading my posts, you never know your intellect may click in.
Reply to London's terrorist attacks - Date:07-07-05
Vj ~ The book (Quran) which created these shameless killers of innocent men, women and children can never under any circumstances be divine in nature. Muslims who are moderate in their thinking ought to get out of it now before it is too late. Even atheists without God would not commit such atrocities.
A FEW have already done so and hopefully more will listen to them.
Back to contentsReply to World of Peace - Date:07-07-05
Those who follow the teachings of Islam do not commit such atrocities,
..."Even at the time of war when state armies battle face to face, it is not permissible to kill women, children, elders, priests, farmers and merchants; people we nowadays call civilians."...taken from article
Vj ~ Do you know of any wars fought in Islam's 1400 years history where plundering, rape and murder among civilians did not occur? The Quran encourages the killing of Infidels (non-muslims) and it does not matter to a tyrannical and barbaric Muslim if they are women and children. Since the Quran specifically states that one-fifth of the loot goes to Muhammad and one fifth goes to Allah, meaning that Muhammad got two-fifths of the loot since he was Allah, looting and plundering is permissible.
Why is it that you consider extreme Muslims as true Muslims, and not the ones who condemn such acts?
Vj ~ Because they obey all the instructions of the Quran even those that instruct them to kill infidels (non-Muslims), which guarantees them martyrdom and finally paradise with 72 virgins.
I am sure a scholar of Islam follows Islam more closely than a bunch of kids with a messed up understanding.
Vj ~ These "bunch of kids" like the Taliban, Hezbollah, etc are trained, funded and instructed by the Mullahs and Imams (scholars of Islam). It is true they have a "messed up understanding" because the Quran is a messed up book of hate.
Reply to World of Peace - Date:07-08-05
�Lo! the righteous shall drink of a cup whereof the mixture is of water of Kafur. A spring wherefrom the slaves of Allah drink, making it gush forth abundantly. Because they perform the vow and fear a day whereof the evil is wide spreading. And feed with food the needy wretch, the orphan, and the prisoner, for love of Him. (Saying): We feed you, for the sake of Allah only. We wish for no reward nor thanks from you.� (Al-Insan: 5-9)
Vj ~ So it would now be a good deed for Muslims, especially those who planned and carried out the act of murdering the parents, to feed those orphaned or become "needy wretch" and left in want?
Reply to - Date: 2006
It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah forbade the killing of women and children - Muslim Book 019, Number 4320
Vj ~ Have you given thought to the fact, that if they were no battles, no one had to be killed? Shouldn't love to be shown in avoiding war instead of instigating or participating in it.
"Do not kill any old person, any child or any woman" (Abu Dawud). "Do not kill the monks in monasteries" or "Do not kill the people who are sitting in places of worship" (Musnad of Ibn Hanbal).
Vj ~ Funny, this very man of 'wisdom', Muhammad, didn't know that having sexual relations with a child (Aisha), his daughter-in-law and having many women constituted immoral actions.
Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah (Muhammad) married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old." Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, #2116
Reply to World of Peace - Date:07-08-05
Hello,Those people who claim to be Muslims who committed such atrocities are stupid, for the lack of a better word.
Vj ~ Then the promise of 72 virgins for committing such an act must also be a stupid instruction.
And what makes you think the work (Quran) of an illiterate (Muhammad) can be the cure? Can you imagine, such characters being hired in our universities to teach what a disaster it will be?
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Reply to World of Peace - Date:07-09-05
You have made an excellent point. Of course, illiterate men cannot teach at universities.
By the way, as Muslims we do not believe that the Quran is the work of Muhammad (pbuh). Last time I checked a Quran, I could not find the author's name. You never know after all it could be from the One and only.
Vj ~ Think about it my friend, we as human beings are not perfect but yet we have and never will hire illiterate men to teach, why would God who is All-perfect chose one as his messenger and even worst one who has sexually assaulted a child? Had he not been an illiterate he could have checked the Vedas which until today has no "author's name" on it either.
If that is not your belief, then live and let live. I have seen and read your arguments about other religions.
Vj ~ It is not a matter of just living for the sake of living. The idea that we are gifted with intelligence is to seek the truth so that we can be free from pain and misery. I have in my possession the only knowledge that can save a soul so count your good fortune to have discovered it.
Reply to BBC news on two of the suicide London bombers. - Date:07-13-05
Shehzad Tanweer: Aged 22, born Bradford, lived Beeston, Leeds. Studied religion in Pakistan. Forensic evidence linking him to Aldgate blast. He was said to have turn religious at age 11 and started praying five times a day.
Newspapers quoted friends who said that Mr Tanweer was quiet and very religious but did not express an interest in politics.
Hasib Mir Hussain: Aged 18, lived Holbeck, Leeds. Reported missing on day of bombings. Said to have turned very religious two years ago. ID found in No 30 bus.
Vj ~ If this is the result of being religious then the suicide bombers cannot be at fault, but the source (the Quran). This is what I meant by extremists being the true Muslims.
They are known to be "He was proud to be British," his uncle said. "He had everything to live for. His parents were loving and supportive.
"He was a very kind and calm person. He was respected by everyone."
Vj ~ These guys are not illiterates, they had good schooling and exposure to all sorts of cultures as British citizens. But the idea of martyrdom and a paradise of virgins when invoked by a higher authority (Mullahs or Imamas) can spontaneously turn to dreadful hate for the infidels (non-muslims) making them a ready human-ticking-time bomb. The question is, who is really safe today when "a kind and calm person" can become a human bomb?
Prime Minister Tony Blair is ready to do something about this extremism, but it means changes to the Quran, which Muslims boasted has and cannot be changed.
Reply to World of Peace - Date:07-18-05
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "He who commits suicide by throttling shall keep on throttling himself in the Hell Fire and he who commits suicide by stabbing himself shall keep on stabbing himself in the Hell-Fire." (Sahih Bukhari 2.446).
Vj ~ Maybe you can fool those who are not acquainted with the history of Islam but for those who know better these instructions were meant for those Muslims who would have deserted Muhammad or commit suicide rather than going into battle with him.
I do not believe that a Muslim (i.e. one who submits to the will and commands of God ) would do such a thing, they might have declared their belief verbally, but unfortunately, things like that happen.
Vj ~ The truth is, it is being done according to the full instructions of the Quran. Hate alone might not be the cause but assurances of the rewards in paradise definitely make it a genuine one.
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Reply to Pam - Islam is an incurable disease - Date:07-18-05
This is not an accurate interpetation of what Tony Blair is proposing, if I have used my intellect, LOL and understood.
Vj ~ I am the one making the proposal and not him. If something must be done about Islamic extremism, it must be done by attacking the source which is the Quran.
What Tony Blair is proposing is that those who preach hate and incite violence in their places of worship, will be deported from Britain.
Vj ~ What good is that when these guys can go to Pakistan for training?
Reply to BBC - Date:08-12-05
Cleric Bakri barred from Britain - BBC news - August 12th 2005
The cleric's spokesman, Anjem Choudray, described the UK move as "completely outrageous" and a "failure" of the principle of free speech.
Vj ~ True, the principle of free speech must serve everyone impartially, and therefore, this means Mr. Choudray, that it is also "completely outrageous and a failure of the principle of free speech", to issue death sentences (fatwas) against Rushdie, Anwar Shaik and many prominent Muslims for speaking out against the intolerant teachings of the Quran.
As much as those have the right to speak out according to the Quran, those who wish to speak out against it must enjoy the same right.
Reply to BBC - Date:01-15-06
Posted on BBC Jan 14th
Perhaps someone need to educate these people on the true necessity of going to Haj. If Paradise is not denied to those who are not able body or can't afford to go to Haj, I really don't see what is the mad rush for millions to flock at the expense of such discomfort and danger.
Added: Saturday, 14 January, 2006, 22:14 GMT 22:14 UK
To Vijay Singh, Please if you don't understand some religion or there rituals then its better not to comment, instead of condoling you are trying to say that haj is a useless thing, I am surprised why BBC published your comment, specially from a non muslim who does not even know what importance this ritual is for muslims.
Tahir Razvi, Baku Azerbaijan
Vj ~ Added Sunday January 15th, 2006
To Tahir Razvi, I consider any positive preventive measure to save lives, a better action than "condoling". If it came across as a "useless thing" it is by its own rules not mine, for how can anyone measure its importance (usefulness) when it is not mandatory (for all)?
Reply to Pam - Date: 01-17-06
but the reply is again one of presuming you know nothing of the Muslin religion. I suppose things need to be balanced, and this is what the Beeb has done.
Vj ~ You don't need a rocket scientist to figure out that such pain and misery cannot be the result of righteousness. Such ritual couldn't have been a sanction from the Almighty considering that 100 million or all 1.5 billion muslims could storm Meca at any given time, and then what?
The word Christmas was likely to cause offence to non Christians it was announced,......freedom.........yes that is all illusion too.
Vj ~ In spite of it being based on a false dogma, it brings out a joyous and peaceful season where families and friends are reunited in harmony. What is offensive about that? But you are right, it is all about politics where the minority holds the balance of power.
And true also, things are changing for the worst as the laws of nature dictate that decadence is inevitable, it is why it is so important to save our own soul before others.
Reply to Britons oppose religious hatred laws - Date:02-01-06
In a Letter from humanist, secularists, Muslims and evangelical Christians to London's The Daily Telegraph opposing Briton's religious hatred law.
"A free society must have the scope to debate, criticize, proselytize, insult and even to ridicule belief and religious practices in order to ensure that there is full scope - short of violence or inciting violence or other criminal offenses - to tackle these issues."Reply to Omega - Islam, itself is divided by its own ideology - Date:02-02-06
Q2: What if the entire WORLD immediately converted to Islam?
Vj ~ It still won't solve the problem (of hate) considering that the two main sects, the Shiite and Sunni, are deeply divided.
Actually there is nothing new of Islam, such tyranny and barbarism as we see today have been its history, but what is new is that the dependency of oil is the reason why the British and the Americans are involved, even though the pretext is about democracy and the vile authoritarian rule of a dictator. If it was truly about freedom or human suffering, Tibet would have long been freed and over a quarter of million wouldn't have needlessly died in East Timor before the West got involved.
However, tackling terrorism under false pretenses of achieving something else, is not going to work. I can't see how the situation can get any better when the leader, (George Bush, in his state of the union address) of the world's superpower, attacked the extremists as vile and vicious and with the same breath praised the ideology as being noble, when it is the ideology brands us as infidels and a suicide bomber to murder and maim.
Richard, Christianity is not the answer either, for what has been the cause of tyranny and barbarism (dark age of Christianity) can never be the cure.
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Reply to Omega - Date:02-06-06
Q1: "What must mankind do, that he does not already know?
Q2: "What blocks mankind, from attaining lasting world peace?"
Vj ~ The prejudicial idea that your religion is right without the thorough and impartial investigation of the others.
Reply to Omega - Date:02-07-06
Man is fallible but yet not even one rule is ever changed during play of any of the games we have invented. God is infallible (All-perfect) and yet in His game of human creation, still in progress, the rule (mode of worship) has been changed. The question is not how, why, where or when truth has been changed, but who changed it?
If mankind only knew how rare a commodity the truth has become, they wouldn't have put diamonds ahead of it
Dear Vj- I was tempted to take your thought one step further. Was I right?
Vj ~ It will not be wise to take it any further if you can't tell me who changed the rule (truth). To be frank, there is nothing to indicate so far that you understood the thought in the first place.
Reply to Pam - Date:02-26-06
Hi V.J. and Richard, the spiritual laws are the same since they first came into being, they have not changed, these Laws or rules remain as they always did.
Vj ~ This is quite true, but since there are so many religions and all opposing each other the rules were obviously changed many times over. This is why I have presented through my research a FAITH that withstood the test of times where the rules are still the same today as it was in the very beginning.
It is knowing them and bringing them into our daily life, that makes for a life well lived, if I can put it that way. The creator is behind all creation and is not seperate from 'His' creation, those who think that are not yet walking on the spritual path, no matter how many times the read the scriptures or attend their churches, they are NOT on the path of the seeker of Truth. Truth as you know VJ cannot change, it remains the same, always.
Vj ~ You will find that almost everyone in all the opposing faiths will say the same of their scriptures, great spiritual lives, the creator and what not. But just saying it and understanding it through good reasoning guided by the correct knowledge is another matter. You and I are very far apart Pam, when it comes to knowing what the truth is for no one can argue for or against it without first declaring one's source knowledge of which you have failed to do so far in this dialogue.
Reply to - Date:02-28-06
Hi Dear VJ, I never said in the first place VJ that we were going along the same route, the same way. We could very well be miles apart, but that dear friend is totally insignificant where the truth is concerned.
Vj ~ Oh no, it is insignificant for the ignorant but not the wise. Here is what you said earlier which is true..
"Truth as you know VJ cannot change, it remains the same, always".
If truth cannot change and must remain the same always, it would mean that whatever way or method the first human gained salvation, so it would have to be for the last human being, which means you and I have to go the same route if it is the very truth that must set us free. And since I am propagating a faith which you have failed or are unwilling to investigate, you cannot deny that I am not on the true and only path or that you will be successful in going another route.
Reply to Pam - Date:02-28-062006
There are different roads leading to Rome, we just tread the paths from different destinations.
Vj ~ There are different roads leading away from Rome also. It is the reason why we must establish a path consistent with reasoning guided by the correct knowledge to lead us there. As I said if there is one truth for all in all ages, then there can only be one true path to God.
One quick thing I will say and I would expect with your knowledge that you would agree with me here, and that is that whatever the desired destination and whatever the starting point of that route, the practice of meditation and going within is the only way that Truth can be made known.
Vj ~ There is only one starting point and it begins with reasoning (functional intellect), which I call the path, when it is guided by the correct knowledge it then becomes the right path (discriminating intellect - knowing right from wrong) and when put into practice through yoga it becomes the true path.
Meditation without the correct knowledge is still ignorance.
Reply to Omega - Date:03-01-06Dialogue 28
Beware of false doctrine.
Vj ~ Hi Richard, you are yet to respond intelligently (rationally) to my rebuttals, however, I will try again. Won't you agree that a teacher is in the best position to know who is the most brilliant/mannerly and dull/rude child in his/her classroom?
Using the same analogy, how is it possible for you to know whether Christianity is the true or false doctrine, if you know nothing of all the others including my faith?
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Reply to Omega - Date:03-02-06
Vj- You are correct, with your illustration. Faith is just that!
Vj ~ Yours, perhaps, is just that, but true faith must be in harmony with reasoning, science and conforms to natural laws.
God designed each soul, with an inner spirit, to seek the truth.
Vj ~ In my case the soul is the spirit and it is not designed or created by God, it is eternal. And whatever inclination it has for truth, was inherited from its previous birth through the continued acquisition of true knowledge. Many, like yourself, who don't have such an inclination, compulsion being so, will suffer lower and lower births (pain and misery) until they come to be enlightened. There is no eternal heaven or hell since finite actions cannot reap eternal rewards or punishment.
By and large, what is Truth?
Vj ~ If you don't know, how could you be sure Christianity is the true religion?
Who was the Greatest Teacher?
Vj ~ You would say Christ, but since he didn't write anything himself, his wisdom cannot be judged by those (of irrational minds) who wrote on his behalf.
Yet, you assume too much.
Vj ~ In your state of ignorance you can only assume that I assume, but to judge my wisdom you would have to follow the same path as I have and with the same effort.
When it is many paths even a fool without any effort can gain salvation, but when it is one true path everyone will have to make the same effort, not necessarily in this birth but any other births to come.
Reply to Pam - Date:03-03-06
But you fail to understand, that Christ did indeed write Truth, by the method of dictation to those who could fine tune themselves to His words, whereby they were written down accordingly. So what you said is basically incorrect.
Vj ~ You cannot speak for or against truth, when you don't know what truth encompasses. When Christ said, he is the way, life and the truth and only through him salvation is possible, it changes the truth that you said cannot change. For if he declared himself as the way, what of the Incas and Mayans civilization who only came to know of Christ 500 years ago?
You obviously have you source, as you have said that I must have mine, and you have even mentioned that I did not disclose my source, but I dont see your Source written down here.
Vj ~ They say you can take a horse to the water but you can't make him drink, the same with a fool who sees what he wants to see and not what you want him to see. If after 253 posts you still don't know what my source is, in spite of all the links I have provided, then there is absolutely nothing else I can do for you. Remember even God has no cure for a fool. If you were ever interested in my source you would have gone to my site at the very first post. It is best to know of the source before entering into a dialogue, to begin with. It is most sensible to criticize only after knowing my source and never before.
Reply to Pam - Date:03-03-06
I am aware you have your website, I even if you recall viewed it.
Vj ~ And why are you still in doubt of the source of my knowledge?
The wise are humble in thier knowing and they do not go around calling people fools. Why? Because they have understanding of other's and compassion for other's and they realise the power of thier words, to help or hinder the progress of one on the spiritual path.
Vj ~ You would have to be wise to know who is wise or a fool. When it comes to the most abstruse science of the Divine if you are not wise you are definitely a fool and if people are called fools it is for their own good. Rather, it is in their own interest to reflect upon it so that they can enhance and grow towards the truth or spiritual path. I was called a fool also but I did not stand still in my weaknesses and complain, but use it instead as the stepping stone towards the elevation of my soul. It is the compassion that I have for all lost souls that I disseminate this knowledge to help them find perpetual happiness in this life and finally liberation. It is never a smooth ride, as it cannot be done without your own individual effort.
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Reply to Omega - Date:03-04-06
This is Truth.
Vj ~ Man, you are a complete twit - you still haven't answered the question. What of the Incas and Mayans who never heard of Moses or Jesus (Bible)?
Again if the teachings of Moses (Old Testament) were good enough for salvation why the necessity for Christ (New Testament)?
Furthermore, if Christ is the truth why is Christianity divided into so many opposing sects, each claiming to have their own true interpretation of the Bible?
Lastly, saying yours is true because it is so, does not fly for others can say the same of their scriptures if that is the only requirement needed.
Reply to Pam - Date:03-04-06
Hi Richard and V.J., I can see Richard that you mention those who are in bondage, ......but the bondage to the material is the bondage that I have been speaking about, and it is even more prevailent now than it was then I would think.
Vj ~ You are so right, but likewise, I am qualified to say that you are also in bondage, bound by a false dogma (untruth).
The only thing I disagree with is suggesting we come back as lower and lower creatures, I am taking that to mean we can take rebirth as an animal, dog, cat or whatever, this I do not believe is true.
Vj ~ So you think the cow was not only created to be slaughtered but by instinct must suffer the immense fear of its impending death. Had you not been in the bondage of false dogma you have would do some study on the soul, before stating what you believe. In belief there is doubt, try to know.
For the majority of people we use the name Christ, that is all. You are making the mistake at taking things at face value I think, if I have understood you correctly, lol if I haven't, I know that you will feel compelled to correct me.
Vj ~ It is face value or perhaps you mean "in the literal sense", whatever it is, Christ was born, raised and died just like any other human being, it is literal. If he happened to declare himself to be God, that's where the problem started for he changed the rule (truth), where it was no longer through Moses, but through him, depriving the Incas and Mayans of salvation. Reasoning is such a simple thing if only one is willing to stop for a while and listen very carefully.
BTW V.J. what do you mean exactly by saing your soul is different.
Vj ~ Since you agree that effort is necessary, why not use it to first study the subject on the soul as laid out by me and then asked questions?
Reply to Pam - Date:03-07-06
Hi Dear V.J., now as Iam not full enlightened yet, Iam bound to err am I not. I am sure you will be happy to agree with me on that score.
Vj ~ On the contrary, I am happy for you, not for admitting your weakness, but for the effort for being here engaging in such a rational dialogue. Even though it is constructive criticism, many would have long abandoned it, but your determination to continue is truly an inspiration that all is not completely lost.
But I must say that the same is true of you, is it not. Or are you trying to tell me that you have reached that pinacle of knowingness, that all are ONE.
Vj ~ I do not have to tell anyone where I am, for if I do, how would one recognize the wisdom if one is not intellectually prepared for it? It is the duty of one to first elevate oneself and then make the conclusion or rather would know and don't have to assume.
For if so, you will of course realise that dogma and doctrine and duality and seperateness and all divisions shall just fade away. So what would profit me by reading on your site.
Vj ~ It is true, they all will fade away, but how can they without the correct knowledge and practice? For me, they have already faded away in my spiritual life, it is the reason I am at peace with myself and whatever I do in disseminating this knowledge, even though it appears to be offensive, it brings joy because it is only natural with me.
You mention to Richard that the Mayans and the Incas were denied the chance of salvation, and you cry foul very loudly at this. Why should this trouble you so, when you yourself know all about reincarnation, or did that not apply to the Mayan's and the Inca's. Maybe this could have been a blessing in disguise had they not returned, who knows
Vj ~ Even though you are correct in asking questions, you must not only read but do a lot of pondering over and over the subject. What I said pertains to Christianity where those who don't make it to heaven will be relegated to an eternal hell of fire with no chance of redeeming their soul ever, and not my faith where no soul is ever abandon to hell (pain and misery) for all eternity. If God is Just, Compassionate and Merciful, how could a soul (Mayan/Incas) who knew nothing of Christ who claimed to be the only way, be deprived of salvation?
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Reply to Pam - Date:03-08-05
What you term your religion is the Hindu religion, is it not?
Vj ~ No it is not, it is still the pure monotheistic religion (Vedic) as it was in the very beginning of creation. The Aryan race has fallen since and now they have turned to idol-worship which eventually led to all other forms of false dogmas.
I have heard it said by one Indian swami, that God created souls as companions because he didn't want to be on his own. You call the soul the second cause, and declare that God had no cause, and yet God is the cause of the creation of all in all the realms
Vj ~ God is never in need of anything, even companionship, He is All-Blissful. The swami is probably a Hindu who is ignorant of both the laws of nature and the nature of God. The soul cannot be created for if it was, it will have to die. It is a law all things finite (created) must come to an end - only that which is eternal has no beginning or end. Cause and effect is the subject. An effect is never without a cause, but the eternity of God, matter and soul being absolute causes they do not require a cause.
Also it is mentioned on the site that there is no possibilty of a virgin birth. But this is a declaration of things as they are in this realm that has descended over great periods of time. I dont currently see much difference to what you are saying apart from someone like say, Paramahansa Yogananda.
Vj ~ Virgin birth is a breach to natural laws and therefore cannot be true. Any theory that breaches the law of nature is false. Yogananda was a false teacher and it is a pity that these vile wretches have misled so many millions of innocent souls.
Anything that is a concept or a idea or a thought is not Truth V.J,
Vj ~ Any "concept or idea or a thought" that is in harmony with reasoning and science and conforms with natural laws is the truth.
when we become enlightened Beings we will KNOW.
Vj ~ When we KNOW only then we become "enlightened Beings".
Reply to Omega - Date:03-08-06
VJ, people who live in a house made of glass, shouldn't throw stones
For it is Written,
You can Sin against the Son of Man
But, Sin against the Holy SPIRIT, you'll NEVER be forgiven.
Now, Read the Holy Bible, before you pick up a single stone.
Vj ~ This is the problem with those who follow false dogmas, they are adamant at instructing others to read their scriptures, but they in turn refuse to read any other scripture than their own.
Richard, when you don't know anything of my scripture, how would it be possible for you to know whether I live in a glass house or not?
Sins are not forgiven whatever one sows that will one reap, no less and no more. The sin of worshipping a false god is equivalent to a 1000 crimes, so take heed and do some serious inquires into other faiths especially mine just to make sure yours is true.
Reply to Pam - Date:03-08-06
Hi Dear Richard, what V.J. said was rather unkind,
Vj ~ It is the truth that hurts and if it hurts it is for his own good. There is no cure without pain and for the disease of ignorance, it is no different.
Reply to Pam - Surgery is painful - Date: 03-09-06
Dear V.J. Kindness costs nothing, that is a truth
Vj ~ What other kindness is above that which is extended to save a soul from births and births of pain and misery?
When a surgeon has to surgically cut into a patient, should he/she listen to your call of kindness not to cause pain and abort the procedure? Surgery is needed only after other treatments through medicine fail. Richard has already received his dose of medicines and is in surgery now, but however, not all surgery is successful.
Little do you know, that your soul is also in the same predicament, as Richard. So save yourself first only then you can help the weak.
Reply to Pam - Date:03-09-06
For the first time in history he asserted and proved that there was no Monism but Trinism in the Vedas. He showed through apt quotations from the scriptures that God, soul and matter were different attributes
Vj ~ If they are of different attributes, doesn't that mean the God, who is truth, consciousness and bliss, is alone and separated from the others in His duty, and the Vedic religion purely monotheistic?
Matter is dead and inert and cannot do anything by itself, and the soul without embodiment is helpless to help or do the work of God, so where is the trinity? The Vedic scripture is in allegories and when translated it cannot be taken literally. It requires deep contemplation of a very rational mind to come to understand the true meaning of it.
Back to contentsReply to Pam - Date:03-10-06
HI Dear V.J. your above post where you quote me at the start of the post, is a copy and paste from your own website, and not my words saying that there are different attributes. I replied with this, copy and pasted for you:
Vj ~ I agree that they are of different attributes, it is the reason why there is no trinity. I did explain each to its own and that only God has the power to do what the others can't do by themselves.
A triune God is again correct, and as you have discovered it in the Vedas is also then will correspond to the Christian Trinity of Father/Son and Holy Ghost, so both scriptures are compatible there.
Vj ~ There is no compatibility at all, God is All-powerful and is never in need of help from anyone else (son & holyghost) to do His work.
Soul and matter are all made from the substance of God as there is nothing outside of God.
Vj ~ Again, soul and matter are eternal entities separate in their own work from God and were never created. However, they are pervaded by God and only by His power they emerge into their various activities.
I take it you agree that God is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent, in other words God is everywhere present, and this Presence is what we are here to merge with and become ONE with.
Vj ~ Of course, the idea of His revelation, is His presence and through that knowledge (through yoga) we can work to confirm our nature to that of His (truth (Sat), consciousness (chit), and bliss (anand). We become like Him or one with him, but we still retain our individuality.
Although the Vedas are the oldest recorded scriptures, that doesn't mean that they were the first, I think you will agree.
Vj ~ If I agree, it would mean that I am at the same level of intelligence as you are.
The Vedas is the only true revelation given to mankind in the very beginning of creation, and because it contains no historical references, we can safely say, that it was for all creations past and will for future ones to come.
And can you be certain that they have not over the ages been altered and changed as per the Bible.
Vj ~ Of course, it has been altered, reviled and rejected by the ignorant for centuries and centuries past, it is the reason we have hinduism. But still the truth that lies in it can never die or be altered, had it not been so, it would have been completely lost without a trace. Truth is the truth, it is the same for all in all ages in all worlds from the beginning to the end, and if we are ever deprived of it, it is our own fault and not that of God.
It is like when we buy a car (human creation), it comes with a manual (revelation), if we ignore it (manual) we cannot blame the maker (God) for the problems we encounter and neither do the maker (God) issue new manual (new revelation) changing the rules of service during the lifetime of the car.
We Live and Move and Have our Being in Him. Is this in the Vedas' because it ought to be, this is a Truth.
Vj ~ We live and move in whatever way freewill takes us, only when we seek His knowledge (Vedas) and put into practice, we live, move and have our Being in Him.
"There is no turpitude in consuming alcohol, meat or committing adultery, etc., it is the natural way of created beings, but abstinence brings great reward." Manu
Back to contentsReply to Omega - Date:03-10-06
Words you do not understand.
Vj ~ All I need to understand is that the Christian faith and all the others I have condemned are false dogmas. You can hold on to it, for creation is constantly in need, for if all should be liberated where would souls, in abundance, come from to be reincarnated into vegetation parasites, bacteria, insects, beasts, etc. It is sad news indeed, but what else can I do, when there is such a thing as freewill.
Reply to Pam - Date:03-13-06
Hi V.J. I am not quite sure what you mean by the above post, but Truth itself needs no justification, it does not condem.....
Vj ~ How come there is uncertainty, if you 'know' what truth needs or does?
Can you explain to me please what exactly you mean if I have not understood you correctly.
Vj ~ It seems to me you aren't in need of an explanation for you already know what "Truth" needs and does.
Again, let me repeat - Any "concept or idea or a thought" that is in harmony with reasoning and science and conforms with natural laws is the truth. My truth is the only truth for it comes with a universal definition which no one can refute.
Reply to Pam - Date:03-14-06
This I believe refers to the outer world, the material world which we live in, this is what I think you are reffering to as Truth.
Vj ~ Truth is truth, it is not limited to the outer or inner world, but encompasses the whole including the Divine.
Because the spiritual Truth that we call enlightement and Oneness and God in particular is something that we cannot readily define these are expereinces of the Self, the Higher Self or God/Self, therefore if you are meaning this also, then your statement that your Truth is the only Truth is false.
Vj ~ Well, this is what I have been saying along, the wise (by strenuous effort) and the ignorant (by redemption) cannot reap the same rewards of salvation. The truth can only be defined by the wise and only they can tell of the experiences of the Self and God.
��No tongue can express that bliss which flows, from communion with the Supreme Spirit, into the soul of that man whose impurities are washed off by the practice of yoga, whose mind being abstracted from the outside world is centered in the Supreme Spirit; because that happiness is felt by the human soul in its inner self alone.� UpanishadGod is beyond concepts, God is beyond ideas and imaginings, and thought, God is beyond all of these things and is the indefinable.
Vj ~ God is All-wise, and He is not beyond the wisdom of an individual who has successfully worked (self-realization) to confirm his/her nature (truth, consciousness and bliss) to that of the Divine.
Now this statement is true, yet I do not term it as my Truth
Vj ~ You shouldn't try to either, it is only for the wise to do so.
you still haven't replied to my query re your statement that implies we can come back (reincarnate) into lower specie forms, even as you say regressings downwards to vegetation parasites. Where on earth did you get this from?
Vj ~ As I said, make the effort to follow the path by studying the correct knowledge and putting it to practice and you will never be dismayed by the truth again.
God is Just, so no soul can be condemned to pain and misery without a just cause. Only the soul of a human can reap virtue and sin, therefore, it logical to state that only that soul can be elevated and only that soul can regress downwards.
Reply to Pam - Date:03-17-06
Eureka, at last I understand what you mean, and yes your right, thanks.
Vj ~ Since I have an established source knowledge and I use my intellect as opposed to you, no source and the use of the heart, I presume that you mean that I am right about you being ignorant.
For if it is so, only in this state of humility one is truly ready to begin the journey towards my truth.
Back to contentsReply to Pam - Date:03-19-06
Hi Dear V.J. Iam not concerned with your opinions,
Vj ~ You should be, until you can provide the source and a definition for truth.
I am concerned though that you still view the intellect, a lesser intellegence, and totally tied in with the mortal mind, which is allowing you to believe that you have the source and Truth. As I have said before Truth is beyond the intellect, hence if you are purely using you intellect, which I strongly suspect you are, you do not know Truth as you think you do.
Vj ~ There are only two kinds of people when it comes to the most abstruse science of the Divine, the learned (wise) and the ignorant (fools). Therefore, if you know the truth is "beyond the intellect" and I "do not know the truth", it would mean that you know what the truth is and therefore you belong to the category of the learned. Am I right?
You wrote from the Upanishads:��No tongue can express that bliss which flows, from communion with the Supreme Spirit, into the soul of that man whose impurities are washed off by the practice of yoga, whose mind being abstracted from the outside world is centered in the Supreme Spirit; because that happiness is felt by the human soul in its inner self alone.� Upanishad
This is true, but this is not what you are talking about is it.
Vj ~ I meant, only when one comes to know the truth only then one can enjoy the bliss of the Divine and not before.
You keep saying that Truth hurts, well V.J. when you eventually come to know Truth youself you will find that the addage truth hurts, is far from true. If you say the truth hurts, you are talking from your ego and not truth, in fact you have much work to do to realise that Truth, the saying is a blaming your words on a addage and not taking responsibilty for your words, this stance is the ego of the mortal mind, which is using it's mode of action attack or defend.
Vj ~ The "adage" is true when it comes to the ignorant. The truth is Christ was born a bastard (out of wedlock) and Mohammad was a pedophile (sexual intercourse with a minor - nine-year-old Aisha). Do you know of any Christian or Muslim who would not be offended and perhaps, you?
This you will find out for yourself when you do eventually come to KNOW TRUTH.
Vj ~ It seems to me that you have found this truth, but yet cannot put a definition to it, why?
Reply to Pam - Date:03-21-06
Given time you will slay the beast,the ego but not with words, when your heart opens up then you will see and know and also know when to be quiet.
Vj ~ Given the number of posts (848) vs 117 for me, you are certainly not an authority on silence, are you?
Well, the adage that the "truth sets us free, is also true, so I don't see how the "heart" can do it for you.
Reply to Pam - Date:03-22-06
You still do not see how the 'heart' can set you free, I take it that is what you are meaning. All I can say is that you will know this one day.
Vj ~ You still do not see it is only by the intellect where truth from falsehood is ascertained, can set you free. All I can say is that you will come to know after many births of pain and misery.
You have a lots of company too, as it is the dark age (Kaliyug), where billions are emersed in dense ignorance to the extreme where rational thoughts have a very rough time taking hold, compulsion being so.
Reply to Pam - Date:03-22-06
Hi VJ yes I am aware that this is the period known as kaliyuga, or dark age as you put it.
Vj ~ What you should be aware of is Kaliyuga is known as the dark age not only because it is the last age before dissolution but because of dense ignorance and that you are part of it.
I think we are getting mixed up with the term intellect and the term intelligence,
Vj ~ If you are not sure, it is obvious who is all mixed up.
The rational mortal
mind cannot ever attain enlightenment on it's own.
Vj ~ This is what I meant by dense ignorance, how do you know what the rational mind is capable of when you have refused to use it?
Back to contentsReply to Omega - Date:03-23-06
Why does one create such a battle, within the inner circle of faith?
Why do we reject Jesus the CHRIST, as the one and only Son of God?
Was our Savior and Lord: Jesus Christ purpose all in vain?
Vj ~ You would have a difficult time convincing the Incas/Mayans and the millions of souls in remote regions who never heard of Christ, otherwise.
And for those who have now come to know of him, they are still divided on whether he was the son or the Father himself.
Reply to Pam - Date:03-23-06
Dear V.J you completely fail to understand. Of course I use what you call the rational mind, we all do, that is our worldly mind, Iam no exception to this, but what I have been saying is that Enlightement goes way past the rational mind, the rational mind on it's own will never become enlightened, it is a impossibility and if you believe you have the Truth, you will know this yourself.
Vj ~ Don't get me wrong, you are absolutely right about all that you have said so far in these dialogues so far, had you not been so, how else could I have proven that our God opposes each other? Your God gave you a heart that can take you to salvation while mine can only filter and distribute blood. So are we quite clear now on the subject that we do not worship the same God?
It is throwing pearls before swine to continue this dialouge with you and I prefer to conserve my spiritual energy.
Vj ~ I have already established a source knowledge, in harmony with reasoning, science and in conformity with natural laws, by which all mankind can find perpetual happiness and since it is not the same as yours, then it is obvious who is gladly throwing pearls and who is the swine stubbornly trying to ignore it.
Reply to Pam - Date:03-24-06
brain is only matter and conveys impluses, it is not the mind itself
Vj ~ Let me give you some more lessons again, the heart is also matter that keeps the blood moving but the brain has everything to do with the intellect for what we put into it through learning (knowledge) decides the outcome of the mind. So the result is if a person is learned he/she can strive for physically and mentally happiness, likewise if the person remains an illiterate, he or she will be deprived of both
Let us see what it says, and let us see if you practice what you preach.
Vj ~ If you cannot speak on behalf of the learned, how would you manage to speak of their practice?
Your web site:
Therefore, the purpose of my life is the extirpation of evils; introduction of truth in thought, speech, and deeds; the preservation of unity of religion; the expulsion of mutual enmity; the extension of friendly intercourse; and the advancement of public happiness by reciprocal subservience of the human family.
May the grace of the Almighty God and co-operation of the learned soon spread this doctrine all over the world to facilitate everybody�s endeavor in the advancement of virtue, wealth, godly pleasure, and salvation, so that peace, prosperity, and happiness may ever reign in the world." Maharishi Swami Dayanand Saraswati.
Vj ~ This is not possible for the ignorant to follow. Do you think it meant to pamper fools with kind words like "dear", "Love and Blessings" and that will take them to heaven? Kindness cover all living creatures, we don't make a meal out them whenever it is convenient. So start advocating against the slaughter of billions of innocent cows, it will be of greater benefit to your soul than showering me with "love and blessings".
The extension of friendly intercourse and the advancement of public happiness by reciprocal subservience of the human family. Hmmmm sounds alright to me. So are you really applying these teachings? Look into your heart, the spiritual one, if you dont know where it is I suggest you ask the Swami, there you will find the answer. BTW what is godly pleasure and salvation in your 'true religion'.
Vj ~ Well it is quite obvious that I am not there yet, for if I was I'd be hated by the masses of fools like he was - sixteen attempts on his life and the seventeenth finally killed him. Did you not read this also,
"It is laid down that man should so conduct himself that he might not give pain to and entertain inimical thoughts towards any living being. But in matters which are opposed to the teachings of true religion giving of pain becomes a duty." Swami Dayanand
So you see in the state of extremely dense ignorance, trying to rescue the soul of a fool doesn't mean that the fool knows what kindness is all about.
Reply to booklet80 - Date:03-25-06
The previous post is an example of vitriolic hyperbole and a classic case of hating the traits of others which are clearly exemplified in oneself.
Where does this come from?
Is this not a type of hate?
Vj ~ Well a better conclusion cannot be expected from one is not familiar with what the truth is. The ignorant call it hatred for it hurts, but the learned looked at it as a duty.
Here is where it comes from Peter if you are interested in doing your own investigation.
"It is laid down that man should so conduct himself that he might not give pain to and entertain inimical thoughts towards any living being. But in matters which are opposed to the teachings of true religion giving of pain becomes a duty." Swami Dayanand
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Reply to Omega - Date:03-25-06
In this 21st Century of light Speed communication, one is required to SLOW down a bit, and to meditate on the topic at hand.
Vj ~ You are so right Richard, and might I add that in spite this vast scientific progress we know the biblical age of creation is highly erroneous and neither angel nor god has appeared before man again, and yet billions hold to such fiction as truth.
Reply to Pam - Date:03-25-06
...and where there is no harmony, there is dis-ease. Disease of the body and the mind. There is no love..
Vj ~ The cause of all pain and misery is unrighteousness (false dogmas) and patting each other's backs in the name of tolerance is not going solve any of it.
It would be hypocritical to deny even one, whose foolish ego has taken him away from God's love, because we have the command to love one another and to treat others as we wish to be treated ourselves.
Vj ~ Virtue practiced in ignorance is still ignorance, it does not free the soul from pain and misery.
Reply to - Date:03-26-06
But where I ask do the Vedas come into all this, if this is the true relgion that you are so certain of, then what would the Vedas say to these seeminly bondage making rules.
Vj ~ Many owners still have their original manual also, but yet their cars are failing them. The Vedas work much the same way, it can only better one's life if regularly consulted.
When I said in my earlier posts that sixteen attempts were made to murder the Swami and the seventeenth killed him, does it not imply that the state of Indians was far barbaric than that of the caste system you pointed out?
The Vedas cannot return India or the world to its once glorious days if Indians and others keep rejecting and reviling it.
Neither the Swami nor I have refrained from laying criticism to all that is false, be it India or the West. So be sensible and study his Life and Teachings and my work completely, instead of putting us and the Vedas on trial for being bias.
Reply to CWS - Date:03-26-06
I have read all your previous posts in this thread and visited your website. I should begin by acknowledging the areas of agreement. You have said:....
The Vedic religion certainly has some truths to offer,
Vj ~ I do hold a man like you in very high esteem, my2cents, for I have always maintained, without any doubt whatever, throughout my years of study, that only a man who knows the whole truth can actually find "propaganda", "half-truths" and "some truths", here and there.
So it will be quite impossible for me to add you to my "ever-growing list of fools and idiots".
Reply to Pam - Date:03-26-06
It is funny how it just needs someone like you to point out the foolishness of continuing,
Vj ~ See! Without any effort at all a fool, who has nothing to show to elevate the human soul shows up and you found agreement, and yet you wonder, why the world isn't getting any better?
Reply to Pam - Date:03-26-06
To my2cents: So IT WILL BE QUITE IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO ADD YOU TO MY "EVER-GROWING LIST OF FOOLS AND IDIOTS".
To Pam: ~ See! WITHOUT ANY EFFORT AT ALL A FOOL, who has nothing to show to elevate the human soul SHOWS UP AND YOU FOUND AGREEMENT, and yet you wonder, why the world isn't getting any better?
Vj ~ You added it with your very first lengthy post - one would think you would have been more interested in proving me wrong by showing how you came to know the whole truth to point out "some truths".
Reply to Omega - Date:03-27-06
So Vj, would you please comply with CEASE and DESIST with your rude remarks I believe that you have been given warnings in the past.
If you continue, your PRIVELEGES may be with drawn.
I will have no other choice but to make a FORUM COMPLAINT to the Webmaster of this Web Site.
Vj ~ So Richard, I should cease speaking the truth not only because it hurts but worst, Christians can be deprived of their heaven?
It is not that you will, you have already done so unless the webmaster, as a rule don't check on what's going on here.
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Reply to CWS - Date:03-27-06
"REVELATION IS a communication of something, which the person to whom the thing is revealed did not know before. For if I have done a thing, or seen it done, it needs no revelation to tell me, I have done or seen it done nor enable me to tell it or write it. Revelation, therefore, cannot be applied to anything done upon earth, of which man is himself actor or witness and CONSEQUENTLY ALL THE HISTORICAL PART OF THE BIBLE WHICH IS ALMOST THE WHOLE OF IT, is not within the meaning and compass of the word revelation and therefore IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD."
Without going into too much depth, Paine mistakenly uses a rather limited and self-serving definition allowing him to dismiss the Bible because of its historical content. The online dictionary, however, defines �revelation� as follows:
1. A) The act of revealing or disclosing or
B) Something revealed, especially a dramatic disclosure of something not previously known or realized. And
2. (In theology) A manifestation of divine will or truth.
Vj ~ The Collins Dictionary: Bastard
a) a person born of parents not married to each other.
b) anything spurious, inferior, etc.
c) one regarded with contempt, pity, etc.
So does this qualify Jesus as a bastard by the same standard as above.
And in �A Discourse at the Society of Theophilanthropists,� Paine says:
The universe is the Bible of a true theophilanthropist. It is there that he reads of God. It is there that the proofs of his existence are to be sought and to be found. AS TO WRITTEN OR PRINTED BOOKS, BY WHATEVER NAME THEY ARE CALLED, THEY ARE THE WORKS OF MAN�S HANDS AND CARRY NO EVIDENCE IN THEMSELVES THAT GOD IS THE AUTHOR OF ANY OF THEM.�
THIS RULES OUT THE VEDAS with the same broad brush he uses on the Bible.
Vj ~ How could it, when the Bible was defeated by reasoning alone?
Did I not say earlier that truth must be in harmony with reasoning, science and both confirming to natural laws? Your bible is a breach to them all, and to defend it you must show where the Vedas is a breach to reasoning also.
Reply to Pam - Date:03-27-06
I do feel there is something wrong with you VJ and sincerely I would recomment you see a doctor. Iam being serious here, and not joking, I really do think you need some expert help. I hope you are open enough to go and get it.
Vj ~ Dear Pam, thank you so much for being serious and here I thought the rest of the world, including all doctors, need this doctor.
The last time I saw a doctor was a few years ago, at my family's insistence and before that it was about some twenty years ago. However, the result was, I was as healthy as a man half my age, which I already knew of course.
Doctors don't like me much, simply because if there were many like me, how would they be making a living?
So your advice is to see the doctor and as often as most Christians do even though healthcare is increasingly becoming a huge financial burden on every society of the world today?
The way I looked at it if 50% of Ontarians were as intelligent as I am the Province could save itself 43 billion dollars in healthcare spending in one year alone.
It seems no matter what I do, even by practice, the ignorant sees no benefit at all.
Reply to Omega - Date: 03-27-06
Please correct me, if you discover an error. When I read your post (#322/ Do All Paths Lead To God?), what came to mind was 'How can God accomplish this... the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.' Then I thought of the TV Series of 'STAR TREK'.
Can you see within my text, how easy it would be for our Savior and Lord: Jesus Christ to have full command over His Resurrected body?
Vj ~ All I can see is dense ignorance, it seems this god has wings to hover over.
A leader is in full command when he is not above the laws of the land, similarly, God is in full command when He acts within His laws (laws of nature) and never above it. Resurrection of the dead is a breach to natural laws.
Reply to Omega - Date:03-27-06
Greetings Vj - "The THING that you CAN NOT see, IS far more Real, than all the things, that you CAN see!" -Omega1
Vj ~ Then even the blind is way ahead of you, when it comes to reality.
If you correct conceited people
you will be insulted. If you reprimand evil people
you will only get hurt. Never correct conceited people;
they will hate you for it.
Vj ~ This is an injustice for if no one strives to help the unfortunate, how else can they elevate themselves?
But if you correct the wise,
Vj ~ If the wise needs correction then it is obvious they are not wise to begin with.
Written Without Prejudice,
Vj ~ This is prejudicial to those (Mayans/Incas) who never heard of Christ - "I am the way the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father but through me."
Anyone who seeks truth through his/her own faith without the impartial studies of other faiths, is prejudicial to him/herself, much less those he/she preaches to.
Reply to CWS - Date:03-27-06
Maybe the critic should do his homework, before spouting off.
Vj ~ I know until you die you will defend the Bible and believe me I already know accordingly that you will find no fault in it. So unless you make the effort to first remove all the manure you have in your brains and apply reasoning nothing you say will make any sense to me.
I replied to your Thomas Paines's response, but as all brain-dead Christians do, you completely ignored it .
If your scripture is the truth, then you must show me the fault in mine.
While you are at it, how did Noah happen to collect two polar bears from the far north and other creatures from the tip of South America?
Reply to Omega - Date:03-27-06
Concerning, all theses souls who died before the BIRTH of our Savior and Lord: Jesus Christ. Are indeed all accounted for by our heavenly Father, Almighty God.
(How can this be?)
When Jesus finally died a 'Mortal Death', He was taken down from His Cross and buried in a borrowed tomb. It was during the following new day, that JESUS descended down in to Hades. Where He preached the Good News to all who died, and the souls welcomed Him with Praise. Some even were set spiritually free, to go to the Father.
Vj ~ To be Just to all Incas and Mayans and not only those who died before him, but he would also have had to continue preaching until the Spaniards began to spread his Gospel 1500 years later. If not, you would have to explain what happens to those who went after he left Hades.
Back to contentsReply to Omega - Date:03-28-06
Within my inner soul, Vj, I know that you are truly seeking the Truth. May God be merciful to open your inner soul, as to be fed until you're full.
Vj ~ I have already found the truth my friend and it is not your myth of a religion.
Reasoning, which a Christian completely lacks, is the only means of ever discovering the truth. Secondly, the impartiality of investigating other religions is needed, so a Christian who hasn't done this is prejudice.
Truth is one and it is the same for all in all ages, it is perpetual happiness for only the seeker to experience. Note that when you come to know the truth, no one can offend you by words or action.
Reply to CWS - Date:03-28-06
someone whose mind is irreversibly closed
Vj ~ If my mind is closed how do you explain the fact that I can discuss so many religions while you know nothing of mine?
and who only appears content when hurling verbal invectives.
Vj ~ It is never wrong to offend one for one's own good - it is better to let you know you are an idiot so that you can reflect on it and perhaps change
Civilized discussion takes place within an atmosphere of mutual respect
Vj ~ A civilized discussion is when both parties are fully acquainted with each other's faith before starting a discussion.
No, not that everyone else really is an idiot � but that you yourself might well be the problem.
Vj ~ How do you figure one who is well acquainted with all faiths to have a problem and not one who is only acquainted with his/her own?
nd No, not because you are �telling it like it is,� but because evidently you are incapable of listening respectfully or of sharing your dogma with anything approaching humility).
Vj ~ Well I cannot share my dogma to anyone who lacks reasoning. It is the reason why I insist that one must ingrain the proper reasoning habits to begin the journey. This is not like Christianity where even an idiot can get to heaven, a free gift.
You fail to grasp what I have previously written anyway, entirely missing the point of my comments on Thomas Paine.
Vj ~ I didn't miss it at all, it is you who turn to the dictionary instead. He didn't ask for the meaning of revelation, he is saying that revelation cannot contain historical events which are man-made or events already known to man and therefore do not require God to reveal it.
Besides, it�s not as if your questions are sincerely motivated. You are merely trying to use them � na�ve as they may be � as weapons.
Vj ~ The truth is a weapon that hurts, but so is the use of a surgical knife, both has the same remedy, while one is for the good of the soul the other the physical body.
Genesis indicates GOD WOULD SEND THE ANIMALS TO NOAH � he didn�t have to round them up:
Vj ~ This we call a lame-duck god. This is not the action of an all-perfect and All-wise God, but one who is truly screwed up. I am quite sure the world is a lot more sinful now than it was in Noah's time, but yet there is no flood to rid it clean again. I wonder why? Mythology is an idiot's religion and the Bible has created over 2 billion alone.
In the view of the Vedic religion, no one can be forgiven of their sins (or apparently even those alleged of their parents), and all these would automatically and irrevocably be set aside as irredeemable in this life and unworthy of God�s attention.
Vj ~ Sins are not forgiven, what a man sow so shall he reap, no more and no less. It is called justice. But unlike the Christian God who condemns the unrighteous to an eternity of hellfire, my God offers the unrighteous another chance at rebirth and as many times as they wish to redeem him/herself. In other words, no soul is ever condemned for all eternity, an injustice, for finite actions cannot reap eternal punishment.
Furthermore, forgiveness is no incentive for a man to live a good life, for he feels that he can cheat or steal at any time because he can be forgiven for it later.
"On the other hand, we are expected to assume (contrary to all experience) those who allegedly �received� and wrote the Vedas were untouched by human frailty nor marred by moral imperfections. Too bad such assertions cannot be historically validated."
Vj ~ Here you don't have to go too far in doubt of what kind of people received the revelation of the Vedas.
Back to contentsReply to Pam - Date:03-28-06
Well VJ what you are obviously implying and obviously think is that anyone who does not support or agree with the Veda's is a idiot.
Vj ~ It took you a long time but finally you've got it. I know it is crude but it is the fact and only the effort of ingraining good reasoning habits can elevate the human soul. Hopefully, this moment will mark a turning point in your life.
The Vedas was the first and only revelation handed to mankind in the very beginning of creation. God is All-perfect, All-wise and Omniscient, meaning that He is never in need of changing or revising what was already revealed. It is good for all in all ages. If man faltered, it is man's fault and not that he was deprived by God.
Reply to CWS - Date:03-28-06
With no one left to rave at, perhaps he will have time to reconsider the "wisdom" (or rather, the lack thereof) of his approach.
Vj ~ Here is another approach
History has shown that the white race has indeed made incredible scientific progress in much of the academic fields throughout the past few centuries. Because of this sudden progress not only many are of the fervid impression that the principles of physics, chemistry and other sciences, had their origination from their ancestors, but many are of the impression that the God they worship is the true God of the Universe. But they are wrong in all cases of the origin of the Universe, God and science. It is too bad that the prejudice that prevails blinds them to the fact that another (Indians or Aryans) race were aware of these before.
It is certainly difficult to accredit these sciences to the fallen state of India; nevertheless it is where it all began.
�I could not understand how Englishmen with all their boasted civilization, could believe in such a book as the bible.� Swami Dayanand. Reply to Pam - Date:03-29-06
"India is the cradle of the human race, the birthplace; human speech, the mother of history, grandmother of legend, and great grandmother of tradition. Our most valuable and most instructive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only." Mark Twain
"We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein
VJ you are not helping your 'cause' in any way.
Vj ~ My cause is the liberation of my own soul and as for saving others it is not obligatory.
Most of the worthy spiritual leaders got out of there
Vj ~ Those who got out are not spiritual leaders but hypocrites, a true and altruistic spiritual leader will first seek to liberate his own people before others. Those who flee are after financial gains, much like all those who head cults of western religions.
Anyways, I thank you so graciously for the time you have taken to respond to me, and even though you saw no benefit so far, hopefully, someone else will be able to draw wisdom from it.
Reply to CWS - Date:03-30-06
The Bible says,
Because the foolishness of GOD IS WISER THAN MEN, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. but GOD HAS CHOSEN THE FOOLISH THINGS of the world TO SHAME THE WISE, ... (1 Corinthians 1: 25-29)
Vj ~ So this God can be both foolish and weak? How is this compatible to His true Characteristics of being All-perfect, All-powerful, All-wise and All-knowing? It does not make a lot of sense why Christians are so upset with me when their own Bible branded them as fools? If this God seeks to shame the wise by doing foolish things, doesn't that mean He only feels comfortable with fools?
The Bible is one of the greatest lies ever told to deceive man and reminiscent of its teachings Christians were taught to despise the wise (Greek philosophers), not only they were scorned at but put to death for speaking the truth.
On the other hand, we are expected to assume (contrary to all experience) those who allegedly �received� and wrote the Vedas were untouched by human frailty nor marred by moral imperfections. Too bad such assertions cannot be historically validated.
Vj ~ Here is a piece of history that occurred only 130 years ago.
"..The Rishi-like appearance of the venerable Pandit, his cheerful countenance and child-like simplicity, made on our minds an impression never to be effaced. When he began to speak, manna dropped from his lips, and the wise instructions he gave us forces us to the conviction that the golden age of India has not altogether disappeared...."
Reply to - Date:04-05-06
Hi Pam ,
Just read Vj's latest rant. I believe he has made it abundantly clear that any effort to try to open his mind is what one would call "a fool's errand."
Vj ~ An opened mind is one that has the courage to impartially examine the tenets of all religions before coming to the conclusion of what is true and what is false.
An obviously quite the opposite is a closed mind, so when you only know of the Bible, how can you conclude whether it is the truth or not?
So my friend think before you speak or write.
Back to contentsReply to CWS - Date:04-06-06
It also shows THE NOBILITY OF THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN REVELATION over the Vedic religion, DISPLAYING THE GRACE AND MERCY OF GOD, that even though some of these men had committed grievous sins, God was not only able to forgive them but to change their character and then use them to lead His people. The Bible says,
Vj ~ Where was this God's
"grace and mercy" when all the firstborn of Eygpt were being slaughtered, when innocent children drowned during the flood and when the innocent children of Sodom and Gomorrah were being burnt alive?
Nobility requires an action that is Just to all.
Dear Richard, I have noticed that you withdrew your last post. As for Christ's wisdom, it is for the birds, it led Christians to believe the earth was flat. What is the source of ignorance cannot bring enlightenment to mankind. When the Christian God shows disdain for the wise who became so because of much effort, will and sacrifice, know that the Bible was concocted by evil men to keep the masses lazy and ignorant making it easier to pick their pockets.
Christianity and other false dogmas are indeed striving because the masses are constantly kept subdued in ignorance.
Reply to CWS - Date:04-09-06
To All, �It behooves all men to CAREFULLY STUDY THE (SACRED) BOOKS of all religions before they publish their opinions for or against them.� Swami Dayanand Saraswati
�An opened mind is one that has the courage to IMPARTIALLY EXAMINE THE TENETS of all religions before coming to the conclusion of what is true and what is false.� Vj
It appears Vj and his Swami both need to heed their own advice as THEIR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS on this site and those posted on his own REVEAL A WOEFUL IGNORANCE OF CHRISTIAN BELIEFS, shallow thinking and flawed logic. If they HAD been careful and impartial, they would not have misrepresented Christianity.
Vj ~ We are still in tune to the advice for all to examine the tenets of all religions to ascertain truth from untruth. Is it not dishonest of you to conclude that we are "woeful" ignorant, "shallow" in thinking and "flawed" in logic before doing the same?
�As for CHRIST'S WISDOM it is for the birds, it LED CHRISTIANS TO BELIEVE THE EARTH WAS FLAT.� Vj
As Jesus said nothing whatsoever about a �flat earth,� it is difficult for anyone acquainted with the New Testament to imagine exactly what Vj had in mind when he made this allegation. His lack of any citation from the Gospels suggests he is not aware of one either. His declaration notwithstanding, THE BIBLE in fact DOES NOT TEACH THE WORLD IS FLAT. It refers to the earth as a spherical circle* (Isaiah 40:22) that is hung in space (Job 26:7). Jesus Himself spoke of the moment of His coming as affecting people simultaneously in the morning, the afternoon and at night (Matt 24:37-41/ Luke 17:34-36). This indicates He knew that the world was not flat, but a sphere rotating on its axis � just as Genesis clearly implies (Gen 1:5).
Vj ~ How would we ever know what he said when he never wrote anything himself? And if what is wrote on his behalf is justifiable then when it is said (in the New Testament) he was taken up the mountain and shown all the kingdoms of the world indicating to all that the world is flat is very much questionable, isn't it?
Furthermore, if the bible was clear on the subject as you just said, one would have to wonder why only after Columbus came the West that Christians really knew the earth was round and before that, they would murder anyone (Greek philosophers) for advocating otherwise?
And as for the rest of your rebuttals I have done extensive debate on the Christian faith. I am fully aware of the Christian mentality that there is no fault in the Bible, I also maintain that mine is without fault which makes it mandatory for them to show me my faults as I do of theirs.
Back to contents
Reply to CWS - Date:04-11-06
To All, To give the impression of legitimacy, he took Christ to a high mountain, but as NONE OF IT WAS REAL, it could just as well taken place in a valley or by the seashore. It has nothing to say about the shape of the earth. Check the scriptures again. NOWHERE DOES IT SAY THAT JUST BECAUSE JESUS WAS ON THE MOUNTAIN HE WAS ABLE TO SEE ALL the kingdoms of the world from there � if that were the case, it would have been quite the tourist attraction. What He saw there was a direct result of the devil�s personal intervention.
Secondly, he fails to notice that ALL the kingdoms in all their glory WERE SHOWN ALTOGETHER to Jesus �IN A MOMENT OF TIME� � not by succession in a process of time, as one kingdom after another, but all at once, and in an instant. This also indicates that what Satan showed Jesus was merely a vision or image (whether visually external or mentally internal) which REPRESENTED IN APPEARANCE the whole world and all its glory. THIS MIRAGE HAD AS MUCH SUBSTANCE AS SATAN�S PROMISE to give these kingdoms to Christ if He would but worship him.
Vj ~ Perhaps you think you have successfully defended the flat-earther's theory as a false accusation of mine. But in spite of what you have written above Christians before Columbus did firmly believe the earth was flat, that they even killed and persecuted (Greek Philosophers) for saying it was round. Now can you explain to all what led them such stupidity?
First, Vj mistakenly ASSUMES that what was shown to Jesus were REAL, SOLID OBJECTS PRESENTED to His bodily sight. That this is not the case is obvious from the fact that 1) because the world is a globe, there is no mountain in the world from which all the kingdoms can be seen � no matter how high it is. 2) Neither is there any indication that Jesus was turning in every direction to take in a panoramic view. 3) In addition, human sight would be incapable of seeing any detail from such great distances � even if the world was flat � so Satan�s presentation had to go beyond what could be normally seen with limited human vision.
Vj ~ The way you put this together one can gather that earlier Christians were surely deprived of Christian scholars like yourself.
As for his �extensive debate on the Christian faith,� let�s take a representative look at the content of his �Debunking the Christian Faith� series (quoting Vj):
�I am here to help all you Christian fools� I am simply not an idiot like you Christians� According to the Vedas even God has no cure for a fool so why would I even try?� it is the nature of truth to ridicule idiots� Now I have to downgrade you further to a jackass� You are indeed an idiot!� if you weren't a total dunce� Don�t you people have any brains at all?� Listen lame-brain� You have got so much manure in your head� Too bad, you speak and think like an idiot� Listen ****-head� Your god must be really full of it to make you such a meat-head� I know that you have so much **** in your head� Whoever agrees with you are also a nut-heads� I don't "seem to think" you are a fool, I KNOW!� you have done a good job of making yourself a complete idiot�� [I had to use a few asterisks to tidy up Vj�s potty-mouth]
Vj ~ �Let him say what is good for another even though it may offend.� Light of Truth
What do you not understand by the above quote? It is because we have arrived at the truth (that which is in harmony with reasoning, science and in conformity with natural laws by the thorough examination of all faiths, we are in the best position of determining what is false and what is true and who is a fool and who is wise. It is as simple as that.
It is unfortunate you couldn't relate to one situation that could have been positive for your soul.
Well, it appears that what he lacks in social graces he tries to make up for with consistency.
Vj ~ Again, it is not "social graces" that elevate the soul, but the correct knowledge put into practice.
I have time to briefly deal with just one example of Vj�s allegedly irresistible, yet flawed logic from his �debate�:
�Listen lame-brain, it is the law of nature that THE DEAD CAN NEVER COME BACK TO LIFE. It is not happening anywhere now, neither will be in the future nor did it happened in the past. IT IS A LAW and even God cannot violate� Christ, if he ever existed before, is not coming again� � Vj
So let�s get this straight. GOD WAS ABLE to CREATE THE UNIVERSE, AND CREATE MANKIND in the first place, YET THE ALMIGHTY IS UNABLE TO PERFORM THE COMPARATIVELY EASIER TASK of restoring a dead person back to life? And we can �know� this BECAUSE VJ�S SWAMI SAYS that it is a �law� of nature that �even God cannot violate.� So because it is not a commonplace event we are expected to conclude that IT CANNOT AND WILL NOT EVER HAPPEN.
Vj ~ You see you are a dunce and only a dunce thinks God can act in any which way just to grant a dunce salvation without any effort at all.
If the law can be breached then the science of evolution which says man evolved out of a lower creature is also correct, it happened once a long time ago "So because it is not a commonplace event we are expected to conclude that IT CANNOT AND WILL NOT EVER HAPPEN".
Do you see my point, natural laws is there to guide us to what is true and what is false, it calls for repeated occurrences of the same event if it ever occurred. So if a human evolved out of monkey once, as long as there are monkeys, human should continue to evolved out of them or should be "commonplace event". The same holds for the resurrection of the dead or for that matter, virgin birth, if it happened before and people are still dying or being born, then they should also be a repeated event or "commonplace event".
God is all-wise and it is not wisemen who violate laws but the ignorant. If your God violates his own laws, then he is ignorant and if he is not, then we must conclude that you are all of those things you quoted me as saying about Christians.
And if you looking for "easy task" for God to perform, the easiest would have been not to create this universe at all, for look at the massive problems he has gotten himself into.